I never had an interest in subs. None of the producers I respected growing up used them and none of the commercial rooms I worked in had them. Prior to Two18's I had ATC SCM50' and SCM150 and didn't feel anything was lacking in terms of low end detail.

Getting the Base units for the Two18's just felt like I'd extended and increased the resolution in such a cohesive way that it still didn't feel like using a sub at all to me. Just an increase in the overall detail of an already very detailed monitor.

The fact that the are below the monitors rather than a single unit in front made the transition seamless and not needing to work on positioning and integration meant I could just try them and say 'yep that's even better' and away we go. Just ditched the monolith stands and I was good to go. The fact that the Two18's were at optimum height for me on the Base units was a nice bonus.

The Flexbase wasn't something I personally was interested in buying but I wanted to hear it and it's an amazing addition/alternative to Base units

I was surprised at how it still felt 'part' of the monitors despite obviously being a single unit. It never felt gimmicky or like it was trying to impress with how low it could go. Like the Base units it's in fact the opposite. I don't realise just what it's doing until I switch it off. You'r left with the same great detail but suddenly everything is less fulfilling.

I've worked without Base units in other rooms many times and can easily et the results I want without them. But man when I get back to mine and they are on everything is just so much sweater and more rewarding

I'm a huge Amphion fan and have been since day one of trying them. Not just the monitors themselves but the company as a whole. It's a great team and I'm really happy to have been along for the ride

I've also had zero issues with any of my Amphions despite them having been on almost 24/7 for about 8 years now.
This cannot be said about any of the other monitors I've owned with the exception of ATC's

This thread has been so fun to watch grow

I've read all these amazing posts about Amphion products and alternate amps/subs/cables that pair up well

Just this past few weeks there's been some really detailed posts by very smart people swapping ideas on what might work or be worth trying

This thread is over 7 years old and is such a great example of not only the depth of knowledge GS members have but on the quality of the monitors Anssi and co designed

Only the amp has changed during that time!

Happy New Year fellow Amphion fans!

I don’t even own amphions and this is my favorite thread to read/learn/engage in.

This says a lot! Amphion is an awesome company

All of that is very well said and I have nothing to argue against. In support of your experience with the various Amphion bass solutions, one of the things that Anssi and his team had to take into consideration was the matching of the amplifier power curves between the "subs" and the Two18. If the power curves do not track closely enough, you will get unpredictable results throughout the dynamic range of the music.

In my amateur efforts I have already seen this, where one set of amplifiers I was using had a different power curve and very different power output than the sub amps. Switching to a different set of amps for the Two18 made everything sing in harmony. The full Amphion solution is the proper way to go, but I really enjoy all this experimentation and the ability to voice things to my taste! If I had not wanted to do cinematic work, I would not have made the effort, but now that I have, I don't think I could go back. I would be missing too much!

These Amphion speakers just keep delivering.

Hello everyone. So I have the Two18 and Basetwo25. I am curious what would happen if you played a song through your Amphion monitors at 0 dB. So for example, if you had an Apogee Symphony or Apollo interface, you connected the monitor outputs to the BassAmp1200 followed by the Amphion700 (usual setup), play a song and turned the volume all the way up to 0dB. The BassAmp would be set at 6 since that gives me a relatively even listening level. I usually set the crossover at 80 Hz. I guess this can apply to any active or passive monitoring system.

I'm not talking about playing a sine wave, but just a mixed and mastered song that you could find on a popular Spotify list. Will I immediately blow my speakers or amps? Will the system "take it" for a few seconds or few minutes then blow up? Is the system designed to playback at 0 dB with no problem as it's maximum playback level, but I will just get some early wear and tear and be deaf afterward?

There are many examples where 100% is not a death sentence. For example, I have a guitar amp that I can play literally at 10 and it will blast all night, without a problem. In my car, I can (and have) turned the radio volume all the way up and nothing has blown...yet LOL. But of course, these are different products so the argument may not hold much weight.

I have turned my system up to -16 dB and it's seriously loud. It will hit over 90 dBA. I can feel the bass bumping hard and the highs remain clear and amazing. I don't hear any distortion and I feel like the system can handle more. Definitely no complaints on sound quality, but it's pretty intense since I'm about 5' (1.5m) from the monitors. Usually my quick "fun" or "loud" level is -20 dB. Usual monitoring around -30 dB.

OK if 0 dB is too much, then what is a safe maximum for the system? I'm not talking about what is safe for your ears, that is another topic. Maybe part of me is wondering how high I can safely turn up the system without any damage. -12? -10?

Thanks!

Mixed and mastered means widely different things, so it's hard to evaluated how those tracks would affect the drivers. Metallica St Anger or Skrillex may blow a driver when at the same monitor level Ella & Joe Pass will play nicely.

I don't think the system is "designed" to run safe at 0db, ( like if it had the extra headroom and a limiter and all).


I think of it as the rev-counter in my car. It theoretically goes to 7000t/min but it's advised to peak at 4000 max. In diesel vehicule, a cleaning procedure sometimes consists of pushing the car and stay lock up at 5000 for 20mn on a highway. Now you ask can we go 7000t all the time on a warm summer day? No one wants to try I guess


To me that'd be impossible to define a hard limit. It depends on the material, it's loudness, master distortion, frequency content. -12 is vastly different whether you play one artist vs another.

Sorry for the answer but to me it's " don't go too far". whatever that means!
I know ATC can't really blow up drivers on their active designs, with the analog limiters.

I don't think Amphion amps will suffer nor they will limit to protect your drivers.

One18 and Two18 have a tweeter protection build in, when One15 doesn't. That 's why I'm getting a flex base, not so much for subs, but more for headroom "peace of mind".

EDIT: I add Flexbase for my One15, but you have Two18 + BaseTwo ?! That system must deliver some glorious levels.

cheers

Hi all, new owner of some One15s here!

Quick question, does the crossover at 1.6k result in a dip at that frequency? I've been scratching my head as to why (when measuring my room) I'm down 6dB at that particular frequency. Doesn't show when measuring my other monitors. Sounds great, but a little concerned something is going wrong.

Any help or info would be much appreciated.

Do you get that result measuring L+R ? do the dip appear in each separate side measurement ?

Here's my One15 graph, no smoothing, a normal dip on the right speaker that happens to be around 1600hz, but nothing on the left.
it was my old, average room, but the speaker seem totally ok under this extreme focus.




I once bothered Anssi for a while with an ugly dip, turns out it was a reflection from my (quickly set up) mic stand. Patient man!

Hope you get that dip measure sorted out.

Measure the speaker outside (no walls, nothing) facing up with the measurement mic point directly down at the acoustic center by 1 meter. If you still have a dip at 1.6k/the crossover, it's possible you have a driver wired out of phase. Easy test -- really easy on passive speakers since they are light and can be laid on their back easily. If you are worried about the passive radiators, just rest the speaker on two dowels that keep the back of the speaker slightly above the ground/floor.

1600 hz is about 4db down from the 2-3khz range. But nothing like the amount you’re measuring.

Yes. I have the basetwo25 and Two18. Glorious levels indeed. It’s not just the loudness but the clarity in the mids and highs in conjunction with the tightness of the bass. When you crank the basetwo25, it can be outright fun and impressive. It’s very tight and punchy when you have proper room treatment. It’s helps you “feel” the music as well as hear it. It’s hard to explain exactly, but it puts a smile on my face and helps me check the low end. It has also been helpful to hear and analyze well mixed bass. The basetwo25 is expensive, yet worth every penny. The bassamp volume I call to myself the “fun” knob. When I mix, I keep it level around 6, but when I want to crank to feel the excitement of a mix or just music in general, I crank up the fun knob to 7-8 and crank the music volume. I racked the bassamp near my left hand for easy access LOL.

I have never heard the flex base, but I have read that it sounds awesome and I think you would really like it. The crossover is nice that it’s variable and like you mentioned can protect your One15s from bass booms while giving you more headroom. The FlexAmp1200 has a fun knob too.

Thanks ! looking forward to hearing Flexbase. Although I scored a 1rst Gen with the less powerfull amp. Rack space near my left hand is all free.

In the showroom, I'll be able to audition BaseTwo25 as well.

@ Jeff19 posted a description of his setup that resonates with my experience with my home-brew "BaseTwo25" setup. Now that I have things dialed in more carefully, I have to say that I have never had such resolution available to me. To wax poetic for a moment, it is in my experience a rare combination of all time low levels of ear fatigue combined with all time high levels of subtle resolution. It feels effortless, relaxed and luxurious while providing the clearest view of subtle differences that I have ever experienced in any of my setups.

Details of my home-brew "BaseTwo25":

SPL Phonitor 2 monitor controller
SPL Crossover set at 120hz (4th order Linkwitz-Riley)
Dynaudio 18s subwoofers (two of them)

I was so impressed with the SPL Crossover sound quality that I brought in an SPL Phonitor 2 (not the x version which has a built in D/A). I wanted to see if there would be any benefit to be had over my passive monitor controller. To my great surprise, there is a slight improvement when going to a very high quality active monitor controller. I don't know why but my suspicion is that it is a combination of impedance interaction and "Damping Factor". DF is normally discussed in relation to amplifiers controlling speaker cone movement, but the active circuitry feels like it has more authority and agility throughout the spectrum. I also leave both SPL units running 24/7. (Yes it makes a subtle difference, and yes, there appeared to my ears that there was some "break-in" benefit over two weeks. Subtle but welcome and this may contribute toward lower ear fatigue.)

The 120hz 4th order crossover frequency feels like it gives me maximum transparency in the system. Positioning the subs at that crossover becomes critical, as with the 3rd order filter in the Amphion stack, which crosses over at 100hz.

The small Dynaudio subs, to compensate for not having a large box, need to employ an A/D and DSP to make the response work properly, which results in a 2.5ms delay. To account for this, I have them set 34 inches closer than the Two18. The subs are almost at my feet, to my left and right. This is actually an advantage in my setup, because if I had the Amphion stack, those would wind up being in the corners of the room and probably causing headaches for me with corner reinforcement and room modes.

So far I am not detecting any "problems" with that crossover frequency, and my ears are happier than they have ever been. Sine wave sweeps through the crossover zone feel right. Is it perfect? Most likely not, but for my taste I am very happy. Is the full Amphion stack superior? Most likely, but I do have my setup dialed in very differently and tuned to my taste.

UPDATE 01/20/2022:
The process of dialing-in the system brought me a little education. The Dynaudio subs have a digital control panel that lets you dial in the level of the sub in 0.5 db steps. Every 3db, there is a very tiny "bup" (not really a pop) that is audible because your ear is right down there at the sub. I assume it is the result of a DSP re-set for the gain range. I needed to dial in approximately 6db extra gain on the subs to match up with the Two18 levels. This got me thinking....

The SPL Analog Active Crossover has a large knob on the front labeled "Trim". It lets you dial in as much as -10db or +10db of level for the subs, with zero being top-dead-center. It is also a continuously variable control. The SPL uses their own discrete 120v rail op-amps that give tremendous headroom and sonic quality. So, I did the experiment. I set the Dynaudio subs to zero, no gain. I then dialed up the SPL sub level. That was a bit of an eye opener. It is not clear to me exactly what is being done within the Dynaudio subs for the level control, but using the SPL to boost the level is far superior. More texture and agility in the bass, more clarity in the midrange. I also found that, as you start to get close to the proper level, very small changes have a very noticeable impact on the midrange quality. At the 120hz 4th order crossover, level settings are much less forgiving. This trim control is definitely not a "fun" control. It either works right, or it doesn't!

My conclusion at this point is that I was very fortunate in my selection of the SPL crossover. The sonic quality and features are beyond reproach in my opinion. The Dynaudio subs are a compromise, for sure, due to the A/D and DSP time delay. I am fortunate in being able to position them in such a way that I can compensate for the 2.5 ms delay that equates to approximately 34 inches closer to the listening position. The SPL crossover does have a phase control section with a bypass switch. I have chosen not to play with that yet since I can compensate with positioning at the moment. If I wish to in the future, I could build my own BaseTwo units with the Seas drivers and passive resonators, but then I would be putting those in the corners of the room and causing corner reinforcement etc. This means that, in my situation, the "compromise" of the Dynaudio subs actually works to my advantage. The sound quality of the final setup feels seamless, cohesive and just amazing. No going back for me.

For those who do not have the luxury of being able to experiment, or who have no inclination toward that, I would absolutely recommend the all Amphion solution. Now, that being said..... based upon my experience with the Amp500, which I swapped into the system briefly yesterday, I believe I have a more transparent and resolving system by going with the SPL crossover and my off-brand amplifiers. Just sayin'.

Well i got the amphion two 15. I am really think there great. Using a adcom 545 modded by Jim. Any good cables that will not break the bank.

This question almost always triggers a holy war, but:

My pragmatic advice is to use whatever you have, even lamp cord, and then bring in a pair of the Amphion cables to see if you can hear a difference.

My personal path was to just use the Amphion cables because that is the same wire as is inside the speaker. I am one of those who do hear differences in cables. I want to minimize my variables, so I do not want two different cable signatures in series. I already have a cable signature with the interconnects and whatever is inside the electronics.

From a purely practical point of view, are cables the most important part of the sound of your system? Only if the cables are bad. (Looking at you, HOSA!!!) I have had some cables that were so detrimental to the sound that I refuse to even give them away because of the bad Karma I would receive for my misdeeds.

So, you are playing in the upper tier of resolution and transparency in speakers. If you plan to use, for example, a high quality passive monitor controller and a high quality DAC, (Many of them sound really good these days), then I would just get the proper Amphion cables and you have one less thing to worry about.

Hi everybody, I have to replace my One15 woofers, Amphion sent my some replacements and told me to turn the broken ones clockwise because they seem to be stucked. I have tried but I am afraid I will damage the speaker!

I am waiting for further instructions from Amphion but maybe someone here has been in the same situacion and can give me any tips?
thanks!

Edit: I was able to replace everything, burning my woofers now, didn´t know how much I missed my One15s!!!

Maybe you can find out what cable is used inside the amp and try to use the same cable for your speaker wire link, so that way you'll only 2 different wires in the speaker cable chain (Amphion cable inside the Two15 monitors + whatever cable will be in the amp and your wiring between the amp and speaker). I figured that would most likely be cheaper than going for the Amphion cables as that'd also yield 2 unique wires in the chain (Amphion wire for the monitors and link + whatever wire is used inside the amp).

You can also play it by ear and get another wire altogether, which would give you 3 unique wires and the combination of their sound signature. The all Amphion solution (Amp + monitors + speaker cables) would have yielded the same 1 wire across that part of the chain.

Cables are passive. By definition they can never improve a signal as far as linearity is concerned, they can only make it worse. If accuracy is needed, the best cables will cause very little to no change to the signal. Some cables will cause subtle changes here and there, while others will be more noticeable. You may like one cable's distortion and how it changes the signature, while disliking another. Some people love and enjoy playing tone control with cables to make them work for their listening preference and setup to get useful results, while others want cables that have little to no impact on the signal so they can forget about it.

Once you decide on the speaker cables, you can then focus on the mic cables to feed the amp

I am using a Adcom 545 modded by Jim.

If you ever are out of your support life with them, remember that they are seas drivers. Only the plunger shape on the woofer is different.

I bought a pair of Amphion's about a year ago..... I set them up and planned to do a side by side comparison with my old Tannoy monitors..... but once I plugged up the Amphion's, I just took the older monitors down.... The Amphion's make audio work so much easier. They are truly easy-on-the-ears.

Have you receive the flexbase? I'm curious ?

I just posted an update to the "Home Brew Base Two25" system.

Amphion... Beautiful

Bottom line is that I am in love with it, and learned several lessons!

Sorry still not happening yet!

It's been a full year of crazyness here, and I haven't been able to travel to pick it up, recently, the shop was not receiving costumers in person, and the shipping is insanely expensive.

We have settled for end of jan, so I should be able to grab it, and hopefully: listen to other Amphions.

At home my heating system is down, the new place needs work and setting up a studio. You may listen to a Flexbase before me!

But I'll report for sure. Cheers

So I'm considering a pair of Amphions to upgrade from my KH120s and have read a ton of this thread; that being said a good chunk of it is 5+ years old and I just wanted to check to make sure this is still accurate.

For a small (12"x12"x14"), semi-treated room looking for nearfields, is a ONE15 + Adcom 545/555 with the Jim Williams mod still the way to go?

Thanks!

Dunno about 'the' way, but it sure stiII is a great way.

I upgraded from KH120s to One15s about 4 years.
It’s definitely the way to go!
I’ve been using a Cyrus power amp with balanced inputs to run them and it’s been great.

There's been no change for me in those 5 years in terms of wanting to try other monitors

One15's + Amp700 or Adcom is definitely an option I'd be considering

You could get away with the Two 15's in that room, honestly.

Side note - I put my Two 15's back up and took the One 15's down (waiting on more speaker cable to get delivered so I can run both). The difference between the two is pretty huge, even though it's all within the Amphion "sound". Two 15's are brighter way up top and faster in the low mid / low bass. They're also a little bit more noticeably harsh in the mids. They're punchier too. One 15's sound more like a small hifi kind of thing in my room. Love em' both but it's not as simple as boiling it down to "The One 15 is a miniature Two 15" which is what I thought initially.

One 15 are very good
But damn , I need to find an affordable sub for them. they really miss this low end !!!

hey guys,

Still searching for a good subwoofer for my Amphion One 15

Sergio

hey everybody,
too many pages to go through so if this was addressed already, my bad.

i've been working on a two18+amp700+amphion cables for a month now and i usually work at like 60-70db, occasionally 75db. probably been playing for 100+ hours by now.

the problem is, my pair is mad bright and it shows even in measurements, theres a +4db bump at 12k-14k and a narrow +6db peak at 20k.
before this, i had a 2018 demo pair in the same room that's been played for like thousands of hours and it sounded so nice and smooth compared to the new ones. we even tried hooking it up to my new amp and cables - still, sounded much rounder with ​no signs of harshness. they measured with a small +2db bump in the 11k-15k range and no 20k peak.

so, could this be a break-in thing? should i crank them to 90db and leave them play for a week and hope the high end smoothes out?

any chance something was changed in the design since 2018?
or did i just get unlucky and bought an overall bright pair of two18's

thanks!