The ATC 3" mid not really designed to throw...that said they have built custom Double 300's for performing arts theaters. Our best installs use non active speakers with coordinated DSP and amplifiers chosen to mate the corresponding drivers. ( such as Bryston for HF) a mix of old school with new tech.

With ATC you pick the low end you want and SPL output you want as most everything else is very similar between midfield models. That being said, it is possible you could do with the smaller 100s (12 inch instead of 15 inch woofer).

If you would like to know if the 150s can handle a good acoustical setting, then Disney Hall might be worth a visit, hear a orchestra there. A special set of 150s is the sound reinforcement system for the stage. The deeper question about your situation that could influence what to get may have more to do with where will the speakers be installed/located within your 60x150 space?
Brad

Thanks for your input Mike and Brad. Brad, I have read that about the ATC line and had wondered if the 25a with a sub would sound about the same. This would sure be easier to pack around eh?
It seems the price and weight between the 50/100/150s is so negligible that I might as well bump it up to get to the 150s. The lowest frequency the 7 string violin plays is 57Hz. I assume the 15" will reproduce this the best.
Regarding the space I play in, I'd like to just use these speakers in whatever setting I play which can vary greatly. My thought is that I should create a sonic bubble that sounds amazing. Then if the setting needs more volume I just tell the sound man to mic the bubble (speakers).

I would not say a 25 and sub sounds the same as a 150. Lots of reasons, but 3 way, mid dome, different tweeter, more power, larger woofer are some of them.

I still think a smaller 100 maybe even a 50 might do it, on a sound anchor stand, you may not even need two. For a performance venue in Boston, for orchestra, they use a small active 6 inch two way (ATC 20) for the piano only, on stage, under the piano. If you have a hall designed for music reproduction, you may not need speakers to do the work of throw or dispersion, just lift the level relative to other things.

Brad

Jimmy...are you a solo artist ?

since there are some interested parties here :

https://gearspace.com/board/gearslut...-w-stands.html

Well, I've been scrubbing Google for more info on using the SCM 150s live and can't believe what I found. The ATC PA65! It's an SCM150 adjusted for live use. Now I need to find a place that has these on display for a demo next to my current speakers.
Any ideas of who carries these?

(The QSC KW-153 are amazing btw. First speaker that ever made me cry. But I'm not looking for amazing speakers that can make me cry. I'm wanting to upgrade to unbelievable speakers that drop me to my knees).

brad from TransAudio can help you with this...

Thanks Mike.

HI Jimmy
PA 65's are quite unique! A custom made version of a 150 using the same mid dome but a different (Sound reinforcement type) woofer. Same amplifiers from 150s but different (smaller volume) cabinet. Built in fly hardware.

I do not have any US dealers with these on demo, I am sorry to say.

Another place where 150s are used live, the "Living Room" in New York, a club owned by Steve of the Magic Shop.

Brad

Hi Brad,
Thanks for the feedback. So am I correct in assuming I would have to buy these on faith? I gather they're around 15k?
Kinda scary to lay that much down on a hope. If I took a drive to somewhere that had the 150s and tried those, would it give me an indication of the kind of sound i could expect from the PA65s?

jimmyfree, you play a 7 string violin and I could be wrong but that very nice instrument does not go below 60hz. So why would you need an SCM100 or larger?

I have the ACM50ASL and tested the ACM20ASL. I think both are fabulous. Given your needs I do not see why an ATC other than either of those is required. The room you've indicated is fairly large, so maybe the 50ASL is best. But the great thing about the 20ASL, especially just one of them, is that the 20ASL is actually pretty portable.

Just my 2 cents . . . hope it helps . . .

Hi Swing,
I tune to A-417 so my lowest note measures 57hz. I never truly heard what that low string could do until I played through the 15" woofer in my current rig (QSC KW 153) Every 12" woofer I've tried just can't fill a room with the chocolaty richness that I need.
Is the ACM20ASL different from the SCM20ASL?
I just looked up the SCM20ASL and see that the amplitude linearity (I have no idea what this is) is 80Hz-17kHz. So does that mean it couldn't accurately reproduce 57Hz? I'm pretty sure a 6" woofer won't be producing room filling bass.
And looking at the SCM50 I see that it's using a 9" woofer. I just don't see it being capable of pushing the bass nicely. I've read from many sources that the ATC line is already a little weak in the bass department, even with the 15" woofers. Plus if I was going to spend $14,000 it's pretty close to $18,000 to get the right one that won't ask to be upgraded later.

Hi jimmyfree, Ooops, I meant SCM not ACM. FWIW, people sometimes say the ATC sound a little lean. But I think this is only because they are very accurate and very well controlled relative to many other brands.

The short answer to your question is the 20ASL could reproduce 57Hz, but with a noticeable drop-off in response that low. The extent of the drop-off depends on the acoustics of your room and how you tweak them. The 25ASL may get you a little closer to where you want to go and, IMO, the 50ASL would be fine.

MIKEHARRIS mentioned the mid-drivers are not meant to work to throw, and Brad Lunde mentioned a single 20ASL works for piano in a performance space with good acoustics where the monitor does not need to throw. Your 7 string violin will not go as low as a piano. So you'd be best off to see what works in your space, maybe after speaking with Brad.

If you are thinking of going with a pair of monitors, one idea is to try and test a pair of the 50ASL, and use them if they work, and consider one 20ASL unit that you could take with you for remote events. The cost of this might be almost the same as a pair of the 100 or 110. Or maybe one 50ASL or one 100ASL and one 20ASL for remote use.

The amplitude linearity is the evenness in response across the stated frequency range.

The specs of the SCM20ASL state +/- 2db from 80Hz to 17kHz, with a "drop-off" of -6db at 60Hz and at 22kHz. I thought there was a control at the rear of the monitor, which allow a boost of several dB at the low end, but I see no indication of this on the ATC website.

FWIW, the specs of the SCM25ASL state +/- 2db from 74Hz to 17kHz, with a "drop-off" of -6db at 47Hz and at 22kHz. You could boost the response at 40Hz by +3dB via a trimmer at the rear of the monitor.

The specs of the SCM50ASL state +/- 2dB from 70Hz to 17kHz, with a "drop-off" of -6db at 38Hz and at 22kHz. You can boost the low end response by up to +6dB, but I do not know at what frequency this is activated.

The ATC specs also indicate they are "free standing", and with placement of the monitor closer to a surface you should have a deeper low-end response.

The specs of the QSC KW 153 do not use the word linear but state -6 db from 35 hz to 18kHz, and -10 db from 33Hz to 20kHz.

Good Luck!!! The last thing I'll say in this long response is that not only are ATC monitors excellent products but IME the ATC people are also great to work with. (FWIW I have no affiliation with them at all).

can you explain further? Do you mean ATC's will produce deeper bass when placed next to side walls, floor, desk or ?

Yes.

I thought I read that ATC suggested placing them at least 3 or 4 feet away from rear and side walls. Am I mistaken?

I do not think you are mistaken. I was only pointing out that in addition to the bass adjustment/boost control there is still some possible tweaking in response to be had via their placement.

well that statement would apply to ANY speakers. I thought you meant it was something particular about the ATC's...

No, I agree with you (except perhaps for something like the Geithain bass-cardioid design, which I have never heard).

It's funny cause most of these discussions end with the same conclusion; the only way to know what's really going to work is to try it. What is difficult is getting an $18,000 pair of speakers to my site. The next best thing is to try them where I find them. I suppose as a gigging musician I'll never know what the room challenges will be. But it just makes sense to show up with the best gear possible.

Thanks for your thoughts Swing. I would love for you to be right about the smaller speakers. It would be great if i could get by with those tiny little 20s.

Unfortunately you're intended use is not the same as the designers goals.
I would suggest you spend your money...and when it doesn't work you'll have a whole new thread to start...pissin & moanin.
You might start this all over in the Live sound forum as all the opinions & replies have been from studio engineers...and are so off base as to be completely irrelevant.

No problem, jimmyfree. I wish you the best of luck.

You could also try to be patient and look for a used pair which might come up. A quick search for used ATC SCM20ASL came up with this ebay auction that ended in June 2013 (winning bid of only $2600 for a pair, with flight case, located in Las Vegas!):
ATC SCM20ASL Monitors With JAN AL Flight Case Demos With Warranty Lower Reserve | eBay
I wish I had seen that because I would have tried to buy them and ship them to France. Patience for the SCM50ASL or SCM100ASL may also bear fruit.

In the meantime, you could check around with some studios in Portland or in Seattle. Maybe one with some of the ATC would let you come in with your violin and spend 30 minutes testing them.

There is something to what MIKEHARRIS says, though I disagree that the effort is doomed. Only way to know for sure is to try them.

. . . also the ATC PA65 are designed for live sound . . . and the SCM20ASL are also used for live sound . . .

Has anyone compared the SCM50ASL to the Passive SCM50SL?

Oh my.
Can't tell you how many times I've dreamed of doing a gig with a PA that sounds like my 150's .........

This could end very badly for my bank account.

Yes I have, and unfortunately, its not a small difference. The passive 50/100/150 is very good, and I know would outperform many due to its drivers alone. But the difference between a passive speaker and the loads of speaker cable vs almost none (dampening factor, power loss), lots of loss in a passive crossover vs none in an electronic crossover, changes to load a passive crossover sees with heat in the drivers, the limiters you get nearly for free within an ATC amp pack to watch over the drivers, plus maybe most importantly, the ability to adjust phase of the drivers within the amps, all make the differences too great to make the passive vs active discussion viable.

I have personally tried everything I can think of on a pair of ATC 20 passives to get them to sound as good as a pair of Active 20's: shorten the speaker cable to as short as I can, use better better cable (CARDAS), use better amps (Brystons, Halcros, even ATC's), use bigger larger amps (put 350w/ ch on them) and I can get them awfully good, but not close enough to say they are comparable.

Often the practicality of passives is something you need to do, say you own a NS10ms and you also have a pair of passive mix cubes or something, that makes sense, but if you can use an active ATC, you do it.
Brad

Interesting, I've heard the arguments for both sides some saying the Passives can be better with the right amp, but most seen to say that the Actives can't be beat.

Do you know if its possible to add the ATC amp packs to the Passive SCM50 SL ?

If so around how much does that cost?

I've never heard an argument on the other side except in hi fi world.

I think you'd have to talk to ATC, depends on the age of the passives how practical it is (current drivers? SL woofers? ), but it IS possible to upgrade them to active.

Just call the factory with SN's and inquire.

Brad