Hi guys,

I don't mean to be a pest but I would like to take a moment and describe/share my current mastering method with you pro mastering engineers which I would like to leave wide open for some constructive criticism. So please if you spot anything you feel is not right, please do tell? This is appreciated.

Step1:
Once the mix is just right and the track is not clipping at all and there is a nice amount of headroom, I start with the sonnox inflator. I push it to the max which then usually causes the output on the plug-in (and the master bus) to clip. So to avoid the clipping i drop the input gain on the inflator (but i don't touch the amount of effect of the inflator, I leave it full) until it does not clip anymore (I only drop the input on the inflator to just stop the clipping, I don't drop the input gain anymore than I have to).

Step2:
I then do mid&side eq in ozone 4, most of the time I also do a low cut (40hz) and high cut (16000khz). Here I'll make sure that I have improved the tracks tone, I also do very slight alteration usually no more than 3db up or down on selected frequencies. Now usually after EQing because I have added gain, the master buss will start clipping again slightly. To stop this from happening I then drop the input gain on ozone 4 (I don't touch the eq tone settings) until the actual plug-in and the master bus has stopped clipping, again I only drop the input on ozone as much as is needed to stop the clipping no more no less.

Step 3:
I now add the PSP master compressor. Usually my ears get nice sounding results with setting close to the following: ration 1:2:1, attack 25ms, release around 130ms, with these setting in place I drop the threshold until I get about -3db's gain reduction on the VU meter of the mastering compressor, I also make use of auto gain switch on the mastering compressor, which adds a bit of gain to the total output. Now again after this, there are again a few peaks here and there that are going over on the mix bus. Because they are very slight I then flick the switch of the build in limiter on the mastering compressor, stopping the peaks in their tracks.

Step4:
The last thing I do is add 2 limiters to the chain, I usually start with logic's build in limiter and only add 1db gain, with lookahead all the way up, then I add the final limiter to the chain, the ozone 4 limiter, I then push this one until I get an average of about 3db's gain reduction and usually by then it's reaching for around -10db's RMS.

Now that being said, here is the criticism of the master I get: "sounds softer than other commercial CD's" not much but it does sound a bit softer. What on earth is wrong with my method? Where can I get more loudness? What's wrong with the chain? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

When I bought a 20 year old bonzai tree many years ago, I asked the shopkeeper how often I should water the tree. He said there was no easy answer to my question.

Just having shelved out $500 for the bonzai, I got somewhat pertubed and asked him if I should water it once a week for instance. But he still said that he couldn't answer my question.

So I asked if I should water it a little once a day then. But yet again I couldn't get the answer I was looking for.

At last I gave up this line of questioning, and asked what on earth I should do to water the tree.

He answered: "I can not give you the answer. Instead, each day you must touch the soil and feel how much moisture it has. You must look at the leaves and see how green they are. Then ask yourself whether to water the tree or not."

Get my point?

This is a true story by the way.

3 limiters and one compressor in your chain sounds pretty scary to me. usually the more you limit the quieter/smaller your track feels.

try removing 2 of those limiters and keep one at the end, like the inflator.

otherwise, as lagerfeldt so eloquently pointed out, there is no specific answer to your question... use what works ( but not 4 stages of compression )

Right about now I seriously don't think intuitively watering a bonsai tree is as challenging as mastering.

I get your point thank u.

Thanks. There might not be an easy answer to the questions but there certainly are tips to gather, like for example your tip on reducing the limiters and rather placing the inflator at the end of the signal chain. And if there is no tips to give then why did bob Katz release a book? I don't believe it's a mystical as ME make it out, if one could just spend time with someone with a lot of experience one could probably grasp a lot of things that could seriously turn around your mastering for you. I say this with humility.

I'll give this a shot too thanks.

very nicely said.thumbsup

The thing is a lot of people do not understand what mastering is...
It's not just turning all of your gears and tweak here and there....
absolutely not!
sometimes mastering is just critical listening and simply approve great mix
that's it;
mastering yourself in the very same room the mix was done on the very same monitors is actually contradiction to mastering process...
main thing about it is a 'third party fresh pair of ears' in properly treated room with great monitoring...
tweaking knobs is just a small part of it, and it's not a necessity


good luck anyway!

Why not try to give the man a straight answer or simply don't reply instead of trying to "school" him? Nothing more annoying when you really want to learn something and people go "find out for yourself"

If you're after "uber loudness", which you are if you're trying to match the RMS of modern commercial releases, most likely clipping will give you better results than compression and limiting.

Most of the stuff that I master is already compressed and limited at the mix stage, very often OVER compresed. But that will only get you so far with regards to loudness. Clipping is the way to go for loudness.

The loudest masters usually have two things in common: 1) the mix is suited for being loud - usually this has to with the loudest things in the mix being something that masks the distortion from clipping well. Drums are excellent for loudness, sustained guitars often sound awfull when clipped because the distortion gets very apparant. Then there's an EQ considaration: Ususally the louder masters don't have a lot of sub frequencies, because subs eat headroom for dinner. They also very often have a slight aggresivenes in the upper mids, which helps push the loudness.

Hope this helps a bit.

One thing I've learned about obtaining more loudness using plugins is that some of them have a greater tolerance for spanking than others. Voxengo Elephant, for example, sounds better than PSP Xenon when hitted hard (3db of GR).

This is the best "Mastering manual" I've ever read. Thank you!

No, but everything must be done on a case by case basis. Your chain, or at least the order it is patched in, might, and probably will be different for each track within an album and only time, a lot of hard work (about 10 years worth) & good monitoring will allow you to make these decisions with confidence - everything else is just educated guess-work which progressively becomes more educated as time passes, and then it's no longer guess-work anymore thumbsup

What type of master are you going for? Give me a band and a song and I'll tell you what I think.

Pop/Hip Hop=Clipped
Classical/Jazz=Very little compression nice dynamics
Rock=Beautiful sounding vintage compressors/2inch
Dance=Extreme multiband comps

Me= All of them in a blender so to speak, get creative. The song will lead the way...thumbsup

Why are you starting by maxing out the levels?
I haven't used this plug, but it seems to me your starting off by
using an enhancer before using more basic tools.

Why M/S EQ? If you're the mixer do this type of EQ while mixing, No?
3dB is not a "slight alteration"

This should be optional. Again you're compressing after maxing out with the inflator?

Too much (IMO) More dymanic range reduction?

Keep trying. Do something different. A good mastering engineer can reach
"commercial" levels with much less processing than this.

The thing with mastering is, there is no set steps or correct chains. You do what your ears tell you to do and you use the tools oppropriate for that situation.
Every situation (MIX) will need different things done to it. So listing steps and asking if its ok doesnt mean anything.

If your ears are telling you, that you need 3 limiters for that mix, then that mix shoudl be remixed or you need to re-evaluate what your doing
Cj

My intention was not to be condescending.

The point of the story is something that is quite relevant to your situation: mastering is not a simple check list. You need to think about the challenges in that particular song. Then ask yourself what could be done to fix the problem and what is the best tool for the job. Finally you need to actually fix it - or not. Mastering is also about knowing when not to change something.

Let me make it up to you by answering your specific questions - though others have already done that, too.

First of all, as I said above you cannot master by a list. My first advice to you would be to change this line of thought and accept the morale of the story.

There is no reason to use the Sonnox Inflator unless you feel it contributes something you are missing to that particular song. And there is no reason to push anything to the maximum by default.

If I use the Sonnox Inflator in a mastering situation (which I rarely do) I find adding a little distortion is enough to achieve the necessary effect, e.g. 10 - 30%.

Try experimenting with the amount slider when you are almost done with your master. You will likely find that anything much above 30% will be a waste in terms of loudness and instead add unwanted distortion.

M/S equalizing is a powerful tool. I certainly use it on some masters but never by default. Use stereo EQ and if you discover a problem that is best solved by using M/S then switch to M/S mode.

There is nothing wrong with using a low cut. But again, using anything by default should be avoided.

Some songs will not benefit from a low cut for various reasons; maybe it is simply not required and sounds better without, or maybe it will shift the phase in a way that not only diminishes your headroom but changes something else for the worse.

When using a low cut make sure it is set to an appropriate frequency for that song, not to some default value. It could be set to 20 Hz, 28 Hz or whatever - even 40 Hz - but it's rare to use low cuts at high frequencies during mastering.

If you have a bass problem there are several other ways of addressing it, including a low shelf EQ, a parametric EQ or even multiband compression.

Using a high cut in the first place is not something you do by default. At 16kHz - depending on the slope of the filter - you will be making drastic changes in the audible part of the spectrum. As explained above there are many other ways of adjusting the top frequencies, too.

If the mix is good then there is no need to make massive changes. But setting any kind of limit on how much you equalize during mastering is not wise either. You do whatever it takes to fix a particular problem. While all mastering engineers would love to have a perfect mix to work with we sometimes need to make compromises.

Obviously, if you are working on your own mix then go back in the mix and fix any major problems there first.

As mentioned a couple of times, ask yourself what that particular song needs. Listen to the peaks and valleys, the average of the signal, listen to individual instruments and vocals and the way everything interacts. Listen to the micro-dynamics and the larger dynamics of the whole song (the arrangement).

Try to describe what you are hearing, in words perhaps, or simply in your mind. As an exercise, see if you can put into words what you like and do not like. Then you have an idea of what you would like to achieve.

Once you have a complete understanding of how compression works in mastering, and lots of experience with how your particular compressor(s) react(s), then you will be able to adjust the parameters accordingly without much hesitation or trial and error.

If I am counting correctly you have 3 limiters in the chain now. One in the PSP Compressor, then Logic's limiter and finally the Ozone 4 limiter. It seems a little excessive to me.

Try spending more time on getting the other aspects of your master better. Loudness is not obtained simply through limiting or even clipping. Getting the right frequency balance and optimum compression is a very important part of the equation.

Experiment more with limiting and even clipping, though the latter is frowned upon by some. In real life most mastering engineers working on Top 40 material, rap music, electronic music, rock, etc. are not afraid to use clipping when it is appliccable. I do not want to go into a loudness war discussion here so I am simply stating how things are.

As already mentioned it is a combination of many factors during the mastering process. However, the arrangement, production and mix needs to be of a certain quality that lends itself towards being loud. Please see this thread for some tips: Loudness when Producing and Mixing [Tips]

As explained above there is an important and relevant mastering lesson in that story.

I get it and I'm not trying to pick on you. To me it was more of a pseudo Zen koan thing with the morale that you've got to realize the answer yourself, rather than depending on others to guide you the way. And while I agree with you to a large extent, there is nothing mastering specific to be learnt from your story - it's a rather generic thing. Your last post was much more helpful and a perfect example on how you can actually help out without having listened to the material in question. I'm not picking on you, this one is more general: I think a lot of the mastering engineers in here should be a lot more open and honest when disgussing the mysterious arts of mastering when noobs ask questions - or keep from posting in the noobs threads. It's like it's forbidden for non pros to asks questions in here?. To me, the mastering business is no more mysterious than fixing cars for a living. You get the car in, you find out what's broken, you fix it. Ofcourse you can't learn how to fix cars on autoslutz.com. And no way can you learn mastering on gearslutz.com. But even though mastering engineers tend to not wanna talk about it, there are lots of standard things that a regulary done in the mastering process. This could include a hipass, EQ, compression, limiting, clipping, MS processing, stereo widening / narrowing, dithering, level rides, fades, editing, noise removal and so forth. Oh well - the OP got his answer sp

While the story probably is relevant to a lot of other things in engineering or even life - it is certainly mastering specific.

To spell it out, the morale of the story is that in mastering you never do anything by default:

Listen, evaluate, decide - only then do you act or do not act upon it.

You have already mentioned so many processes that your answer is contradictory to your statement. There is nothing standard about doing many of these processes in a single master though it would be a standard to consider them while evaluating the problems.

Anyway, I'm not here to pick on you either. We can do that on Lydmaskinen.dk ;-) See you there mate.

To me, fixing the car is the technical aspect of mastering. Setting up the studio for work. Measuring, soldering and hammering.

Listening and processing in mastering is driving the car.

You don't want to learn that on the internets!

That's also why I think Lagerfeldt was spot on. Knowing all too well such an answer is a typical frustration among newcomers eager to learn. Been there, done that. Though I can feel the irksomeness of that perhaps seemingly vague mystical thing, I still think it's the right answer! When I was in that situation, seeing such answers to such questions made me look elsewhere.

The answer literally came out out of speakers.

This may sound very dumb and obvious but when you are EQing, listen to the whole spectrum. For example: sometimes when I think something is not bright enough I might attenuate low frequencies.

-Chris Doremus

Your approach is way to hot. I'd listen first, and think that less is more in your chain. Pay for someone to master your tracks, or pay to sit in with an engineer and begin to learn what you are listening for. I learned the most when I worked with an engineer in a studio or paid to have mastering time with someone. Your chain is a nightmare really, less is more. I can generally master material with one or 2 EQ's and a compressor, then limit a bit for level. If you want to figure it out more its learning to listen and to do that you need great monitors. Once you hear the problem, and you can't solve them all at times, its a technique of weighing compromises at times, Make the adjustment etc. Understand dynamics because at this point you just have the most talked about plugins on, and all at once, none of this equates to dynamics in your mix here. Mastering your own material is not always a good idea, fresh ears can really help.02

Too many ways to start or end processing different styles of music.
Few advices here, there in the technical area, but at the end it's an Art.
(not Laws).

I compare mastering and audio knowledge in general to martial arts.

You could watch a trained fighter avoid a punch and get someone into an arm lock and ask them how they did that. The explanation could be one simple applied technique, however it takes years of training in order to be able to apply that technique properly- the type of attack, balance, body structure etc.

It's not ever as simple as 'move off the line then take his balance'. However, once someone has a better understanding of the basic techniques then perhaps the fighter would elaborate- but only if the person asking the questions has an understanding of the basics. The type of question asked often reveals a level of experience, so it is met with a short answer. No one is hiding any secrets.

This is good advice for the OP.

A simple chain, used properly, is generally better.

Pay a real ME to master some tracks for you, attend the session, be cool and learn something.

Good (or better) monitoring is essential.

Many good MEs can master a mix with one EQ, one Compressor, a good set of Converters, one Limiter, and the proper knowledge & experience.

Amen!

JT

Apparent Loudness is around 3 or 4K

Try adding that.


Not your fault if everyones EARS are bleeding though.

No matter what anyone says, talking about it they way we have on this forum has helped me, so thank u for at least attempting at making some different suggestions towards the mastering chain I mentioned.

Again very helpful! Thank u I am most definitely going to do this.

I really do get this repeated concept, I really do cause everyone keeps saying it. But believe it or not, me asking on this forum is all part of learning the techniques and know how, feel, intuition that most of u already seemed to posses. Thank u for your help!

Ok got it will look at making the chain far more simple & invest in the necessary gear. Thank u.

Yes it doesn't even mention eq, compression or a limiter.....really awesome.