I tend to buy low end stuff. I'm not a pro, and even though I love writing and recording music, I've had to admit that this is a hobby for me. For some of you, this is your business, and I respect that.

My question is about low-end gear. I tend to find the cheapest stuff I can: interfaces on sale, guitars on sale, off-brand guitars, budget mics. Anyway, I look at the gear I've acquired over the last decade, and I realize that I could have one or two expensive vocal mics that are standard, one American-made fender, and probably one fender tube amp, and I'd probably be fine, but instead I've got a kind of fun little collection of used gear and "sleeper" mics, etc.

I think I can get pretty good recordings that are more limited by my abilities than my gear, so anyway, I guess I would just ask if anyone here in low end theory has found themselves in the same boat? I tend to think that the name-brand, bigger budget items can't be worth all the extra cash they cost, and maybe I like the feeling of getting a good deal or making something else work that's a little different from what everyone else wants. Not much of a question I guess. Just wondering how others feel.

People play great shows and make great recordings on inexpensive gear all the time. If it's working for you, don't even worry about it. Make great music! Yesterday's low-end gear might be tomorrow's classic, who knows.

Sailing the same boat persay. Ive got about a dozen guitars most of them i've customized. When i could really stick with 2 or 3 "nice" ones. I got a handful of amps/ speakers, when i could really stick with 1 "nice" one. Ive got a pretty solid drum kit. I could really get away with an "expensive" kick-snare- tom kit. But, then i would be afraid to do the things i do with my gear. Not, to mention on the resale it seems like i have to basically give what I have away, as I feel my pricing of gear in my collection is already very fair. So to condense a large budget collection down to a small higherend collection seems rather limiting at this point. I do however appreciate when things work properly and I am able to hear differences in quality between options. I dont always look for the cheapest option. Its just sometimes, I dont really see a reason behind the most expensive option.

In the end they are tools.

Sometimes you need a tool for one specific task and not very often, but when you need it, you need it.

I remind myself of this when I look at my Audio Technica ATM31 I picked during the pandemic, which runs off of a double a battery.

"Someday I will need you, buddy. Don't get too much white corrosion in your battery socket."

Sigh...

I'm glad I spent about $1k on 20 mics instead of just buying a $1k mic, I think.

Good points. The recent example of what made me think about it is that over the last few months I bought various dynamic mics (some EVs, some cool old Sonys, and a Lanier 250) and I was thinking afterward that maybe I should have just bought one RE20.

Good perspective to have! With the quality available to us today in the low end (hardware and plug-ins), if you make educated purchase decisions, you could spend ten years or more just learning about mic placement, acoustics, mixing, and training your ears before the gear became any sort of real obstacle for you.

I'm trying my best not to bring in much more, as it's just more crap you're going to have to deal with getting rid of when the day comes. I'm not looking forward to being on that side of the whole "buyer/seller" thing, and even if you believe that some high end piece is going to increase in value, that just makes the sales that much harder and more serious.

Take Care

Don't sweat not having an RE20 and keep an eye out for an RE10 or RE11 that falls into the low end (not sure which EV's you picked up).

I was able to score an RE15 last November!

$450-$1000 for a microphone? sheesh, are you in Radiohead or Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish or something?

I think there are good arguments for either buying only the fewest pieces of the best you can afford or going with cheaper stuff but more of it. Like many things... it depends.

One really good mic can be cool but obviously if you need to mic a bunch of things at once then just one mic doesn't cut it.

As to instruments it's similar but to a point. Having just one might be a bit limiting but if you have ten or more crap ones then maybe one or two quality instruments might be a better plan.

Electric guitars don't always have to be super expensive to get the sounds you are after though. As long as they work for you, you like them, and they help you make the sounds you want even cheap or oddball guitars can be cool.

I think the important question here is if you have a bunch of stuff do you actually make use of it or not. Ten guitars you never play or a bunch of cheap rack gear you don't actually use is a waste. Maybe move it along and get some things you really want and will make use of. On the other hand if you like your big collection of cheap stuff then enjoy.

Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.

Yes instruments are a different story, although I don't consider them "gear." To me, gear is the mics, interfaces, etc. For that stuff, the tech has improved so much that even low-end stuff is really good. Spending a lot more on fancy gear X because it's trendy or some revered brand or has this big rep or someone famous used it or has some perceived huge edge over less expensive stuff is almost always a fool's errand. It esp cracks me up when I see people doing things which are less sonically demanding, like rap or EDM or even video game music and debating whether to get a Neumann 67 or 87



I think you have a wise perspective on this.

If its a hobby and you use it often enough and it makes you happy when the song is finished then you are successful in this endeavor.

When it comes to mic's, only good moving coils are under $1,000. Most good LDC tube or ribbon mics are in the $1000 to $5000 range. Only a few models of specific makes that have been glorified cost more.

$500 for a new mic does not get you into a Studio level vocal mic for most voices.

Back on point. What controls the decision should be this:
If you have nothing and need something, just get something so that you can do something. Low or high end does not matter. To get your idea's down you need something.

If you want quality of results, you need quality gear. However, the cost does not necessarily relate to the best fit. Vocal mic's are about finding the one that hides the bad stuff and brings out the good stuff in a specific voice. I'm a bit of a nut for that and have 70 mic's in my locker. Most were in the $500 to $2000 range. Even with all those mic's sometime an SM57 is the right fit for a specific voice.

It takes many years of placing mic's on sources to start picking the right mic at the right time and put it in the right place.

After all that. If I had splurged for a U87 at the start vs the end of putting mic's together, I would have been much happier.

Completely untrue. But for those who enjoy pissing away money for no good reason just so they can say they have fancy pricey mix X, it's their money, enjoy.

Personally, I'm like 51% "stay in the low end", and 49% wanting to be "much happier" like elegentdrum, and buy a u87 (vintage or ai, eg?).

This has me thinking hard.

But it's like...

Ok...some low end thoughts I have swirling in my head:

- I don't have Oktava small diaphragm condensers yet.
- Or maybe another pair of low end small diaphragm condensers?
- Should i get ones that have a capsule system?
- And a Soyuz Launcher would be sweet.
- Not to mention a Useful Arts Hornet.
- Oh no I should ignore the GAP pre and BLA Auteur on local craigslist...
- Should I try to get one of the OG Neat King Bee's before they are completely extinct?
- A second AKG Perception? A second SE X1s?
- Multipattern condenser possible?
- A subwoofer for my Presonus speakers would be nice.
- I DON'T have an SM57 yet...
- Or an omni dynamic mic.
- Should I get a Motu M2 or M4 to have "ESS" DAC? Or a small chinese DAC / headphone amp. Or a used Apogee Groove. Hmm.
- There's a used original Audient ID14 on craigslist. Cheapest high quality portable conversion with 8 adats in? Hmm...
- Any budget instruments worth grabbing?
- Keeping an eye out for cool hand percussion, always.

That's a lot of low end decisions I have looming...

Vocal mics... well I mentioned 6 mics...Oktava, Neat, AKG Perception, X1s, SM57, and "omni dynamic". Maybe those would work for vocals.

But still weighing this U87 comment. Maybe eg is right.

I think you are doing just fine. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Do you completely disagree with elegentdrum, or do you just want to shift the price points?
Right now, $120 or less gets you one of a number of dynamics that are rugged, take almost any level and can do at least a decent job on many sources. Of course there are dynamics that cost a lot more and are loved by some of those who have used them, but you don’t NEED them to experience what dynamics can do.
If instead you try to save money by finding some lookalike no-name Amazon dynamic for $30, you stand a very good chance of not having a mic that allows you to learn what dynamics do well. You might buy one of a number of cheap dynamics that are an embarrassment to the genre. EVERYONE should have one good dynamic.

If instead your first buy is a $120 LDC, you will not know what either a genuinely good LDC or a good dynamic can do. You have in large part wasted your money.

If you instead buy a $120 ribbon, you MIGHT get a decent short ribbon. But it is a dangerous choice as a first mic. Ribbons are more fragile regarding storage, handling (drops and bumps), wind, breath, and sometimes phantom power. And a short ribbon is not THE classic long ribbon that most experienced engineers love. It is an interesting, useful entry mic, but a risky one.

If you spend your $120 on an SDC, the possibilities, both (marginally) good and definitely bad, are almost endless. In my experience, $120 SDCs can be noisy, harsh and screamingly bright. But as time goes on I read more GS posters I trust who report having bought new design good SDCs at ridiculously low prices. And $120 is a ridiculously low price for a good SDC. My recent and personal experience is that you have to roll up above $300 to start to find an SDC that sounds reliably good on a human voice or an acoustic guitar. But if you just need some snap and sizzle at the top of your drum mix, those awful, nasty cheap SDCs can probably be OK.

So if anyone actually read through this too long post, I hope you found something useful in it.

Stop roasting any and all recordings I ever did with MXL 603s as overheads. (no idea why i switched to them looking back. This was in the mid 00's).

MXL is on my avoid list tbh. Same with Sterling Audio. Anything lower than them on the Chinese manufacturing totem pole, like current Amazon, ebay, Ali express level clones. No way. Folks' mileage may vary, as you mentioned.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I got a pair of Nady sdc's and a Ribbon for $40 for all 3. So, I broke my own rule. I'm a trash hoarder...

To the OP, I didn't know about the Lanier 250.

Did a search on here and it seems those who have them are enthusiastic.

Not sure I follow. Both, really. I think the idea that you can't find a good LDC tube or ribbon mic for less than $1000 is absurd, which appears to be his implication, or something close to it. Sure, all things being equal, you can get better value in a dynamic than you can in a condenser or ribbon mic (ignoring that technically a ribbon is a kind of dynamic, since someone is bound to bring that up), but you sure as hell don't need to spend $1000+ to get a really good mic of any type.

I and I suspect many others would disagree, though I agree at $120 your worthwhile options are few. Not sure why you went to the $120 number though, and I didn't have any exact price points in mind per se, more generally the "you have to spend a ton to get a great mic" mindset. It was true once upon a time; it isn't any longer. But like anything, the devil is in the details.

OK, you caught me… I thought if I didn’t mention your name then no one would guess that I was talking about you and your crappy MXLs.

I have two old, very cheap MXL ribbons that aren’t terrible (high praise), and I had two MXL LDCs that I bought a long time ago and sold a few years ago. They were OK for that time (it was harder to find decent cheap gear then).

Nady? I had forgotten about them. In my experience, Nady gear was a small audio step above tin cans and a string… but less reliable.

I picked $120 because it is enough to buy from a selection of some of the most used dynamic mics.

Guitars- we need a minimum of 12 6 strings of various form and function + an electric 12 and an acoustic 12 string.
An 8 and/or 10 string baritone is handy to have around so that falls into the need category.
I could defend owning a tenor guitar too as well as something like a Fender VI.
Then there is the parlour and/or travel guitars we each must have, you'll want 2 of each cuz having just one of each is selfish and not considerate of social settings where an impromtu jam would be thwarted by overlooking the needs of visiting player friends and family.

That totals up to approx 18 guitars needed minimum without truly covering the full range of acoustic guitar needs



By my math mate, your'e 6 guitars short.

I don't fall for the "high end" illusion anymore, while some are nice, most are pretty ordinary and I have electrics built in Korea and Japan that are every bit as good or better than my US made big brand name gits.

Acoustics are a different matter but I will say that the Korean Cort Gold series are nothing to scoff at, very proper well crafted guitars that sound pretty amazing at a very reasonable price.

Not sure if I had a point but I did get to write guitar and need in the same sentence.
Here to help, always!

Something that I've realized is how much gear can be a distraction to our creative flow. I think that's the most important thing to solve for when it comes to making music.

Are you able to get on with capturing your ideas or are you dealing with re-installing USB drivers or menu diving a slow interface?

So long as the gear is valuable to your workflow and your audience are happy with your product, it's all good!

I have lots of really expensive stuff… none of it helps me write anything… if owning tons of cheap old stuff excites you or motivates you even one lil bit it’s worth it

This is without any doubt a universal lesson alot of us come to realise. My first real LDC was a used Neumann 147, it was well over $1500 cheaper than an Ai so I [arrogantly/ignorantly] convinced myself I could make it work, even for vocals, universally. Even though every pro producer mixer I knew was telling to get an 87 or a 47, I tried to save money to buy more channels ( I didn't actually need). Not to put down the 147, its a fantastic microphone but its is no where near as flexible as an 87 or 47 or an M49 for that matter. Point is I tried going cheap and I really should have just bought the 87 when it looked like I could eek out a living transitioning from management and touring to audio production. I also didn't have the benefit of growing up in a studio being the tea boy/assistant on hold with Avid learning things from others first hand. But I did have the benefit of pro friends whose advice I didn't think I could afford to take on board and regret that poor decision.
Microphones I am a complete snob I suppose, some less costly mics have been wonderful surprises but most of the cheap ones are just a waste of time money and the materials used to build them. That said I really like using Senn 835's for a lot of stuff recorded or live
Once one has proper mics they quickly realise this. That's not to say that a cost effective dynamic cant be the right mic, but they usually aren't, especially not for vocals except in those very rare cases. I firmly believe in finding good deals and experimenting with certain budget friendly hardware, like GA la3a's and the like, but not microphones. For mics, we buy the 87 just accept it was the right decision, especially if your'e working alone at home and don't get to work in studios where 87's ( or whatever) are on hand to rent or use. If your alone at home passionately wanting your work to be it's best, arm yourself for battle.


ymmv

I've been working with my SE X1S and AKG P220 nonstop since elegentdrums' post, and then energized again this morning after reading GeneHall. Pulled out some dynamics, too, but this was more about these condensers.

And I'm thankful because I've learned some new eq tricks for these mics.

Sometimes posts on here make me dial in and start listening to .5 dB eq changes and really study.

My verdict - unless I get into rentals, or start doing "Hollywood" voice recording (for easy matching), I don't need the u87ai yet. I can record vocals with what I've got.

ymmv.

(Not that it matters, but 15 years ago, I used to have a vintage u47 feti, tlm103, Gefell m70, ADK Vienna Edition, Cad M9, Oktava stuff, modern 414's, etc. $400-$1500 range stuff. But I'm digging the low end right now. Not sure when I'm going to make a big purchase again. But I am looking at AEA, Josephson, and Neumann mics, for sure, when I do. Maybe Austrian Audio. And then my low end mics will pay for themselves in Youtube shootout videos vs. the big guns.).

I think that's a very healthy perspective relative to ones circumstance.
By no means did I mean to imply folks can't get stuck into their creative efforts without having high end mics.
I definitely believe that experience and professionalism can tip a budget mic into the desired range of acceptance for it's user. I like to think I can make anything work, but I know what I'm compromising too.
But beyond the personal and when including the expectations of prospective paying clients, that scale has to be reassessed. Clients are very savvy these days and having a perceived inferior mic put in front of them translates to doubt , and trying to qualify such a choice is a waste of time and opportunity, ime.
I just did a V/o job and the V/o artist showed up with a well traveled briefcase of his mics and handed me his vintage BD after deciding as much as he wanted to try my 314, he didn't know the mic [or me] well enough.
If there is no intention of stepping into occupational audio, and you've found a $200-500 mic that you know well enough to meet your expectations, jam on!

I'm actually very intrigued by some of the mics mentioned, I'm definitely not opposed to cost effective if results can be achieved. Suppose that's why I follow most of the budget gear discussions, I'm always trying to learn from the experiences of other folks who have worked the gear and are happy with their outcomes. I did try an entire line of ADK tube mics years back, but sent them back post haste. Compared to my FleA's and Neumann's, they were lackluster to say the least.
I hope I didn't come off as dismissive, it wasn't my intention. Mics and guitars are two of my passions where my OCD is uncontained.

In a year from now I will probably be posting, "you were 100% right about just spending money on some great vocal mics!"

I didn't take it as dismissive at all.

I am much closer to getting a u87ai since this thread, than I was a couple of days ago.

Being that I'm going to be mixing and editing a lot of stuff recorded on cheap condensers anyway, I am learning to deal with the 14k "ice pick" spike many K67 style mics have with my own cheap mics.

But there are a lot worse than the ones I've got. Didn't take too much to make them palatable.

Yeah, the client thing should be interesting. I am opening up shop in January but more on the editing and content creation side of the game, than when I used to track and produce bands.

Here are some great mic's that cost less then a U87

Jospephson 705
Toneluxe JC37

Just a half step down from those for half the cost look at advanced audio.

The 87 is about having a tool that fit's a wide range of vocal and other application. AA-CM67se is about the same thing.

So much of this stuff is personal and hugely variable by different styles, personalities, taste, and workflow, too. I own and love a u87ai, but only because I've had the privilege of recording on a very wide variety of mics over the years as a studio musician (many of them much more expensive and sought-after than the 87) and found that one worked the best for me, personally. For my particular taste, the sound I like to get out of myself (this is in the capacity of studio saxophonist, btw), that happens to be my favorite, and it helps that it's an industry standard so clients generally know what to expect.

There are numerous other wonderful options out there these days. Try everything you can, let your ears guide you. I think there are some really exciting mics out there well under a u87's price tag: many from Gefell, Austrian Audio, Advanced Audio, Vanguard, Shure, honestly too many to list.

In the end, though, there's no substitute for taking what you already have and learning to get the very most out of it. You can learn a ton and make some great music with a Focusrite interface and an SM57. Actually learning the music part... that's what counts the most.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, in the interest of low-cost, high-quality stuff: two companies of which I'm a huge fan are NoHype Audio and 3U Audio. Their price tags seem low-end but their quality is thoroughly professional.

Thats all quite logical. It seems a predominant trait most of us share, resistance to just buying what we know will serve us for decades and spare ourselves the extra burden of making inferior tools work and last for our needs.. I explain it away to everything today being only valued in the moment. The financial side of it not being underestimated, it's alot of dosh that requires a bit of hustle to make pay for itself shelf space, particularly in a brick and mortar startup room.

For the content creation stuff, it's definitely where viability lies for the foreseeable future. I'd highly recommend the EW 314 as a consideration in addition to or even above the 87 buy, as an incremental transition to having those expected tools on hand.
I reckon an Earthworks 314 could push an Ai purchase out a year or so depending on your traffic. I tend to stay in my lane and in my patch, not because I don't want to make more, but because I have a fairly ideallic balance between the life I want and the work I want to be doing. It's rarely what I had initially thought I wanted but happiness absent of grief and pain has proven to be very much worth the resolve of humbling my ambitious nature and drive .
I'd also like to get into content creation, just haven't found an angle for myself yet that would mean I keep the balance of everything as is. But it's definitely the area where the work is, and the money for as much as we need to make that matter I guess. I would really like it if content creation was a part of my wheelhouse
I'd be keen to follow any developmenting avenues you pursue along these lines.