One of the things about ATC is that they reveal a LOT about your chain. If you assume the impression of audio character "is all speaker" using your ATCs that would be a mistake. You can try this easily at your studio, just switch a piece of gear out on reference track. You hear image change, tone change, etc. Bypass all your stuff and straight to monitors- different!

A poster mentioned monitor controller impacting the sound ...absolutely true! Plus everything else in line contributes to the sound. One time we ran into a passive speaker switcher that is often recommended changing everything with the sound of monitors (at a trade show). I would never have guessed.

Converters are a huge source of "good" and "bad". For example, Benchmarks can sound bright and hard. Older Apogees very soft and warm. Prism, Crane Song, Bricasti and Burl-all great, but all different. I see this as a huge advantage, but some might never discover this as they assume their chain is what it is and neutral-when that is not true at all.

Brad

Afew days ago i said i was having issues with my high end, it sounded harsh and i didnt know what it was...i thought maybe it was my room or my speakers so today i went to a studio looking to upgrade my scm20mkii to the 25's. When i was there i heard the Hedd192 for the first time and "wow!" i was blown away, everything sounded like a record just by running through it....So i bought it on the spot.
Set it up in my studio today.. i almost cried, everything in the highs that was bothering me went away, i felt like a world class engineer because everything sounded so good! listen idk what it was with the burl maybe i got a faulty one because there are some people that swear by the b2. Im not trying to knock any particular gear i just had an amazing moment and i want to share it.

Also just to add, because of the hedd my 20mkii came to life like i never could of imagined, they are so flipping accurate!

If you are talking of the B2 DA, yeah it is bright. IMO, and having done extensive listening tests between Burl, Crane Song, Prism, New Avid and Lynx aurora, the real beauty of the Burl is in the AD, but the AD and DA work very well together as a system.

sorry i want clear, i was referring to the ADC. Im going to try and use the burl with the hedd192 tommorow and see how that goes. Clock of head and the ADC of burl.

I hope you found a solution to your problem! Not trying to be rude but your Burl ADC is not at fault. It's not connected to your monitors and wouldn't cause the issue in the 2khz-7khz range on playback during mixing that you are describing.

What DAC have you been using?
IMO depending on this answer is why you heard an improvement with the hedd.

I think it's very important to learn the gear you have inside out so when issues arise you can properly trouble shoot and solve the issue, or at least find out whatnots the cause of the problem.

maybe its like you said that i didnt know what troubleshooting to do and maybe its the ensemble thats the issue.

I was clocking from the burl and using the DA from Ensemble Thunderbolt.

I agree with @ ChaseUTB - unless you have a defective unit, what you describe has nothing to do with Burl AD.

In any case, this thread is about ATC's. If you want to discuss your Burl/HEDD, please start a new thread (or find a relevant one)

yeh sorry went off topic

BTW, the latest Benchmarks don't sound "hard" as the early ones, they sound quite neutral. I bought one myself! I didn't want to leave this 2016 comment stand when it hasn't been true for a long long time.
brad

Looking for a baby pair of atc's - like the scm 7 - anyone used these in a studio environment?

I think I love my ATC 50 pair
Just whished I had the opportunity to have them earlier...

I’ve used SCM7s for tracking jazz and purely acoustic music, but they don’t have anywhere near enough headroom for typical monitoring. The drivers are very small so will bottom out as soon as you need to put any decent amount of low end out.

Fine for domestic listening but not in the studio.

SCM11 / 12 is a very (!!) large step up in terms of headroom, but very very similar sound. Actually quite hard to tell them apart from SCM7s IMO.

Ok thank you very much - I am planning them as an alternate pair to my kh0310/ 750. They would be a lot closer and I wouldn't have any need of low end or volume projection - it is literally to get that insight into the mids and tops that I feel the Neumann is a bit relaxed with. I use VSX too and used to own a pair of 50 asl's - as good as vsx is I don't get that real world ATC interaction with vibe and tangible textures which I think even the scm7 could give. The alternative was going for the LYD 5 or a focal for that mid information - and I could perhaps afford the sub down the line but really I think it's a compromise when I know the ATC sound will bring me much closer to translation. Thank you again for your feedback

Don't expect the same level of midrange resolution from an SCM7 as you had from your SCM50s.

While the SCM7s embody all the things that I think of ATC as being (musical, neutral, fatigue free, not that 'showy' but actually very involving to listen to, reliable, long lasting), the difference between a ~4.5" mid woofer being expected to reproduce everything from 40Hz up to 2.5 KHz, vs a dedicated dome mid with all the additional engineering in that driver (the ceramic SL layer etc) is quite large.

SCM 7 > SCM 11 > SCM 20 > SCM50 etc, each time it's a step up on every front. Midrange clarity, bottom end, headroom. Especially the step up to a 3-way without the issues of IMD affecting midrange production... it's quite large.


If you want SCM50 resolution, you need SCM50s really. SCM20 actives will get you surprisingly close for a 2-way though.

ok thank you again, great info - what's IMD?

am aware that sadly, not having an SL driver or super mid - in the unit is going to compromise the level of detail/ resolution. Is the 50's mid defined as such by the ceramic layer as the mids on the 25 and 45 aren't 'super' denotation. I also don't have the cash for the pro range atm - more importantly I don't have the space. One day I dream of a new room with soffit mount 110's - or the 20's - but for now the SCM 7's fit perfectly into the gap between my mains and my desk. But also just the 'mid-friendly' presentation on the SCM 7 I feel will be enough to fill the gaps of the 0310 - over investing in focals or Dynaudio - I wanted a slightly more user friendly and detailed tops which I feel the atc might also be able to do with the new tweeter. I really appreciate your input thank you - if you feel I might be better off with a focal/ lyd please advise I would be very grateful. Have a good weekend!

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...udio-monitors/

Great deal here. Bought mine thru this site for about $200 more and worth every penny.

Thanks for the heads up that's a great price considering here in France/ Europe they are pretty much fixed at 1900e. Also sadly the 12's a bit big for the space at the moment

What would you use to power the SCM7s out of interest? I have them as my home listening loudspeakers and they are quite thirsty. I do love the sound though. As well as the taste of the ATC midrange, they also give you that entry point into that lovely ATC tweeter that is also used in the higher end models.

Well for now all I have is a Cyrus. But I’d graduate to a proper class a or hypex ncore down the road. I will be practically sitting on top of them so I won’t need low end or projection. Got to figure out how to wire the console to the Cyrus without blowing the input transformer up. Think I need attenuators. Yes all I need is a taste to be honest the SL range had me endlessly fixing micro details so a less detailed ATC might be the perfect antidote. What are you using for an amp?

For years I was using an old NAD 218 THX power amp with different vintage pres (this is home Hi-Fi, not a studio). I needed to shrink the system into a different room though so I just started running them through a little Fosi Audio V3 amp. Hooked up to the tiny SMSL SU-1 DAC, it’s the best sound I have heard from them to be honest which is crazy for the price of that amp and DAC. But it can’t get too loud. I added a Douk Audio T8 Pro EQ which gives the power a little boost.

It’s a cute little home system. I’m now after a sub to carve off the low end as that’s where the amp is doing most of the work of course.

IMD = intermodulation distortion. In this context I'm talking about low frequencies fluctuating the midrange frequencies.


TBH, I would look to at least be on SCM 11/12s rather than 7s in a studio context. The SCM7s have a very small woofer which in a sealed box is going to be working very hard in order to reproduce any kind of level of bass in a studio. With mixed audio, it's fine. But in the studio you'll need more headroom than they can offer.

If that little 4.5" woofer is working really hard, you're going to end up distorting the midband.


The difference between a 4.5" and 6.5" woofer is approximately 3-4x when it comes to how 'hard' the woofer will have to work to reproduce the same SPL at around 50 Hz.

The SCM 11 or 12 will give you a very, very similar sound to the SCM 7 but in a much much more capable speaker.

It's true, ATC is one of those designers where the more you spend the more amazing their products become as piece by piece the compromises fall away.

25's amazing
45's amazing +
50's really fantastic
100's really fantastic +
150's mind blowing near perfection!

And were at $23,000 for a pair of stand alone speakers.

I've tracked and mixed once on 150's and it's an experience I'll never forget - absolutely stunning.

For me the ATC marquee is all about that fabled mid driver, it's there three way design the seems to offer the X-ray vision into a mix via that ultra high resolution relatively wide bandwidth mid driver. Though as pointed out above the 20's do do a good job of getting close.

I'm happy with my 25's

Ah I have already cancelled my order for the scm 7’s last night and have invested in the 12 pro, on your previous advice

Fab, I'm certain you've made the right choice.

Big fan of my SCM 7s as hifi speakers, but it's the additional SPL capacity of the SCM 11/12 which you can't ignore. It makes a very large difference when it comes to practical use in the studio especially.


As far as amplifiers go, the ATC amp is an excellent match for the speakers.

Hi I am wondering what is a reasonable price for the a / not sl in 2024? Thanks

Speakers are likely 25-30+ years old. That age of active will the first gen of amp packs, so old amplifiers usually need sorting and fixing (power supply capacitors, recalibration, etc). will also have old mids with long discontinued waveguides that should just be replaced, will have non ATC tweeters from 2 generations ago, etc. WIll not be in the same performance league as current ATC.
Brad.

The old Vifa tweeters are a little dated now.

If you can get a good deal on them then you’re still buying a great pair of speakers. There’s a chance however that you might need to re-come them, and that comes at a cost.