In case you were wondering..."Fully Class A" architecture...

Means It pisses away alot of energy as heat. Means that its totally inefficient at using energy, and so needs a stout power supply.

Means that it needs a specially made "Gapped" output transformer.

Means that the amplifying circuit stays 100% in conduction (charge is flowing)

whether there is a signal passing thru it or not.

Adds 2nd order harmonics when in the "sweet spot".

Class A does NOT means its "the BEST", or the components are extracted from the tears of Unicorns.

Class A is an amplifier mode of operation.

i don't claim to know anything in terms of gear design (except that i know about the effect of using lots of gear with class-a design on my monthly power bill);

however - very generally speaking - many class-a gear is getting appreciated for the results one is used to achieving with it...
...and throwing it away just to replace it with some other, possibly more modern and more efficient gear in terms of its use of power usually isn't in the cards (nor necessarily more sensible from an ecological point of view).

somewhat similar situation with other highly inefficient gear: it 'feels' (and sounds) much different to mix on a heavily oversized pa driven at low to mid levels than when maxing out a smaller system's capacity...

...so my point is that to apply 'efficiency' as a criteria to our business can be a bit problematic.

Acoustic pianos and guitars use lots of energy too. They are an extremely inefficient use of human energy.


They still sound great. Which justify their use to make music...

All good points, but according to Rupert Neve, his reason for using the class A circuit design was to eliminate cross-over distortion. Later models used Class A/B such as the 1081, the 31102, the 31105 and a number of others.

I can help you. You are me.

Like you and many others here, I wanted a 1073, read and read and read everything possible, and like thrill has said, I couldn't rest inside until I had the real deal. The pre is just the starting point in a chain but it does make a difference, especially stacked across every track. I wanted my audio to start on the best foot possible.

Well, I finally got the real deal. It took years. Finally bought two for $4-5K at some point and sold them recently for $6-8K as you say, because the itch was scratched and I found a more sensible replacement. Which is what you are asking - it's a valid question.

That said, I also understand all the responses you are getting. They are not wrong, they are not being d*cks to you. The point they are making is valid too, but you and I both know you need to go through it this way.

So, here's my version of the answer to your question. I've shot out the following against my vintage 1073s and in some cases other ones (like at a studio with a vintage BCM-10) and I can tell you what MY ears (and sometimes the engineer there) thought. The list:

AMS 1073N
AMS 1073 hand-wired
BAE 1073
BAE DMP
Heritage 1073
Shelford 5052
Converted vintage 1272
Vintage Neve 1290 with correct vintage input/output transformers

Is this the answer you are looking for? I did all these comparisons over a while but always level matched and totally blind using something like the ABX tool. I did vocal comparisons, guitar comparisons and even entire songs doubled up with one pre vs the other, one or two tracks at a time. Of course, my experience is only with the units I had or used, and unit to unit differences are probably as big as clone to clone differences..

Well, here we go. The AMS 1073N had the general sound but it was not as smooth and silky, similar to the difference between modern day API and vintage API - just cleaner and brighter. The handwired AMS got closer (to my surprise), very similar but less bottom and still "newer" sounding. What does that even mean, right? Well original 1073s are quite woolly in my experience. Which is what brings up all the questions in this thread of whether that is what you really want - they're not wrong.

The BAE 1073s were almost indistinguishably close to the originals. There's a reason I guess even top studios have giant old Neve consoles full of BAEs instead of originals. But my BAEs were missing one single strand of hair of girth compared to the original, and I stupidly convinced myself that the original was superior. If I was doing it over today, I would just keep the BAE. It's stupid, even adding an AudioScape Opto after the BAE makes a far far bigger difference than between it and the original 1073. This is why you are getting the responses you are, and obviously you know that.
(The BAE DMP, on the other hand was cool and similar, but not quite as big and round sounding, a slight bit more balanced and neutral. Still very very usable!)

The Heritage was not useful to me. Maybe I got a bum unit, it just sounded bad. You hear/read all the time that they are as good as BAE, I won't contest that.

The Shelford comparison was intriguing. Whereas the BAE was the same one trick pony as the original, the Shelford can do many things. In 30-50% red silk mode though, it was close to the 1073 sound. But in blind tests, I could always pick the 1073 out, because it was unmistakably more rolled off. Is that a good thing? Is it smoother or is it duller?

It depends on the source, as you know of course. On vocals or acoustic guitar, with my Wunder CM7 S for example, the original 1073 was too woolly, smeary, dull, honestly. I much prefer vintage API 312s there, huge tight bottom end and lovely highs. With my 67 in front of a Fender amp, the 1073 though was just lovely, alwawys the best match, because of its smoothness. Someone else might have done the opposite.

Ultimately, I found my sensible version. In all of this we haven't talked about the EQ, and what I found is I much prefer other EQs to the 1073. So I found a vintage Neve 1290 (just the preamp, like a double width 1272 module) which had been modified to have all the orignal circuits and transformers from a 1073, minus the eq boards. I love how it sounds. First I tried with a converted vintage 1272 and that didn't do it at all, that extra gain stage matters. It isn't as rolled off as my 1073s were, and it has the huge huge bottom. It loses a tiny bit of the mid presence though - still better than the other clones. We are splitting such tiny hairs here, for what? No one will ever hear the tracks I recorded

I mostly use other pres now anyway, I've fallen in love with vintage 312s. Compared to everything else the 1073 is a distortion box, as someone famous once put it. In another thread folks suggested clean pres with my reissue U67, and I have had immense pleasure with some modern tube pres like the Branch. I use 312s and two Branches for nearly everything except small combo guitar amps, which always get the 1290.

I miss the feel of the original 1073 sometimes, that heavy chunk with which the knobs turned (no clone matches that) or that slight upper mid presence that some people call magic. But I am far more glad to have the money, and just use the 1290 instead.

Did this help? I doubt it, if you must go on this journey yourself, you must. Otherwise get a BAE! Get me one too please in fact.

Thanks for your redundant reply. I do not know the exact intent of the designer, however I am sure his first reason was to create something that sounded good to him, with the best components available at the time.

I own the full range of A/B models 1081 and 1084, as well as a pair of original 1073s.

I am well aware of their amp classification and how they work.

Again, thanks for reminding me.

A 31102 is a 1084 but with the line input on an a channel routing module in a 8058/68. The 31099 would be the 1073 equivalent. Both are the same class A design as their counterparts.

In terms of clones, let me throw in the Seventh Circle Audio N72 here.

I hadn't compared it to an original, but in my own shootouts it won against the Warm and the Stam (Sowter) offerings.

Also it gets good reviews and there is a quote by Geoff Tanner mentioning the N72 in a positive light: Neve 1073 vs 1272?

Seventh Circle has just been relaunched with a new owner: https://www.seventhcircleaudio.com/

If you “want one because you can” and “$3.k is a lousy amount of money to you” than buy vintage neves. This way you don’t have to wonder if they’re as good or how close they are to an original, they are the original!

I got,
12 vintage Neves
18 vintage api 312’s
2 vintage Calrec 1161’s
2 vintage Telefunken V72’s

I got my modules for less then half of what people ask now. And they’re up to spec no Frankensteins, no issues, have all their original serial/model tags, original transformers, opamps, cards, etc.

Just make sure the modules you buy are NOT converted from some other part of the desk claiming to be a 1073, 1066, 1084, etc.. when they’re really just some aux module Frankensteind together with a new faceplate and fu$ked up wannabe hacked looming job that’s some ass clown slapped together. Because at that point you are way better off with a Pair of BAE 1084’s.

My neves were made by Neve, the original Rupert Neve.

$3.k is a lot of money to me.

Why the sarcasm? Do you think you're the only one here who could benefit from this information?

Here's an excellent interview with Rupert where he talks about his reasoning behind using class A circuitry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAww...ature=emb_logo

Start at 10:49. He first starts talking about crossover distortion in reference to equalization. He then goes on to explain why (efficient push/pull) IC circuitry was not going to work for him.

I was in the same boat as you. I did have some experience with different Neve style preamps including BAE, Heritage and AMS Neve, but never at the same time. Thought they all sounded very similar, as I recall - they all created the thick Neveish tone that you’d expect, none stood out to me as being clearly better than the other at the time. I do remember the Heritage sounding a bit more hairy, with the gain cranked, but not in a bad way though.

I recently acquired a pair of Vintech X73s in a trade. Looking inside, they both feature Carnhill transformers on the inputs and output. From what I’ve read, it seems both BAE and AMS/Neve also use Carnhill transformers (though AMS Neve’s Carnhills are branded Marinair).

My Vintech’s, have THAT sound, extremely similar to BAE and AMS/Neve from what I remember, no better, no worse in my opinion. I’m certainly no expert but I assume that a lot of the sound we attribute to the Neve sound is due to these transformers, which may not be what you’d find in a vintage Neve, but at least are made to similar specs.

So based on this, I’d probably recommend a Vintech X73 (though I guess the newer ones use proprietary transformers?), BAE or AMS Neve.

Well, if you really want a Neve, buy an original. There are other modules in the 10XX series that might be a bit cheaper ... like a 1067 etc ... also, they continue to go up in value, so it is a solid investment etc ...

To the OP:

If you are still interested in the AMS/Neve Classic modules, I would recommend the 1084 over the 1073. It's got the exact same Class A preamp, but a more expanded EQ section. I's a little more money, but gives you more tone sculpting options...

Dave/Suspect Studios

Have we listed all the Neves and Neve-alikes yet?

I am sure that this thread is different from all the "others" and that we have helped him 'narrow it down'.

I have a two channel Pheonix Audio DRS-4. Comes with an EQ. It's got a great sound you can have clean or drive it. I use it for buss and also microphones, sometimes DI. It's Neve like - since the designers are ex Neve - and it's a good price. They are British but now operate from the USA.

The 3k comment is not helpful. We’re all on different financial levels, congrats to you if you can afford that. With any new gear I usually do the same thing; as many YouTube comparisons and articles as you can stand, and you don’t necessarily have to post the question here, just by googling the question you’ll get a lot of GS thread suggestions and so bypassing the colorful banter.

There’s a virtual preamp comparator online that lets you hear each possible preamp and mic combo. Someone please post a link.

OP is long gone. My mistake trying to be helpful, wouldn't be the first time.

Just throwing it in. The Aurora stuff is really colorful. You owe it to yourself to hear it if colour is the main thing driving your question. Geoff Tanner the designer is also an early Neve designer..Ask him if you want the goods. For the closest 73 Ive heard has to be the original Brent Averill unit (not BAE) The first full width rack 1073. All Neve chosen components. The Rupert Neve Shelford Channels are nice and no its not a 73 but a greatest hits channel. The Port II are great too.
I own all these above.

My two cents. Check out Geoff if you haven't yet.

BAE and count another vote for the EQ, yes, it's a beautiful sounding EQ. Do yourself a favor order a stereo pair. If, money is no object check out the BAE 1023 and 1028 both of which have extended high frequency choices/ The 1023 EQ is exceptional. Never used a 1028 but, check it out.

The best combination of color vs. cost I bet is the Vintech. You have to get a "real one" to get much better.

Please check out your PM's sir

I've never tested any of those clones. I have a friend that has 2 BAEs and he loves it.

But, as many people here said, they are all kind of close to the original 1073 and they all have have their peculiarities. So I'm probably getting some AMLs and some Auroras, because they are cheaper, well built and sound awesome. Maybe BAE makes the closest clones, but they are more expensive and I think the difference is negligible. I'm not gonna have the "true" vintage 1073

Brilliant. Thank you

I got to hear two AMS Neve 1073 N's and boy did they sound great! They were used on acoustic guitar, electric rth guitar, and vocals on a Keith Urban cover song Your gonna fly. The character of the pre and EQ sounded just like what you would expect a 1073 to sound like. I admit I liked it better than my Portico pre's which are still great. The 1073 has more character (smoother) while my Porticos have a clearer sound.

This AMS Neve 1073 N is the best sounding solid state mic pre I ever heard. And in case your wondering, the Manley mic pre is my favorite tube pre.

I appreciate the color of the BAE MPF and Aurora Audio GT. You can hear what they are doing to the tracks and it is nice. The AML ez1073 has a rather pleasant tone as well. Those are the standouts to me. I think a Neve branded product will resell quickly, but all of these are hot on the market. The Neve branded one can be bought used and resold at same price or more in the future. Other three are difficult to find below retail.

This thread is a disaster.

The OP was asking a VERY specific question, if you can't or won't answer that, go somewhere else.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had my own journey with Neve thing.

To ME, it is one of those beautiful things like Fairchilds and Pultecs. It is just magic when it is right.

For many years I recorded in a great studio with an 80-series. It had some original 1066's and as time passed by, also other module-brands.

Funny thing is, it didn't make that much of a difference if the modules in the console was original, BAE og Heritage, it always had THAT THING.

I have then tried standalone BAE, Heritage, AML EZ and Aurora - A/B'd versus the modules in the console. NONE of them ever had THAT THING. It is crazy how many transformers and class A, a signal goes through in a Neve 80-series. Crazy! And it is crazy how low noise they are (in good shape considering that..).

Anyway. People saying that Aurora is more colourful or better is just crazy. It is very different actually. Way more hifi and doesn't have the weight and balls like a real Neve module. It is great though, if that is what your are going for.

BAE, Heritage and AML are all kind of in the same ballpark soundwise. Very close to the real thing, but not quite as ballsy, hefty and strong. Def. in the family.

Heritage seems to have some QC/building problems, maybe they will sort that out at some point.

This is not ALL Neve pre modules, but the ones I have tested.

Chill, man. People are giving their opinions. Disagreement is healthy.

In real life, if I was the OP, I would have just walked away from the conversation or said something like "what are you guys talking about.." and THEN walked away hoping to find someone who would also like to sit and talk about Neve modules and the wonderful sounds you can achieve with these things, the small differences and nuances they all have.

Btw. All the new Rupert Neve stuff has nothing to do with 1073 and their 2254 is not close to sounding like 2254's. Not guey or strong as the real ones. Way more modern and Hifi, and great for that.

I would steer away from Rupert Neve Designs for the Old School-thing.

I would also steer away from all the cheap stuff like Warm and the likes. Poor build quality, feel of knobs and they don't sound that great. Fine for budget purposes, but if you have the dough I would get something else.

Yeah, this thread really went off the rails somehow. Pretty ridiculous. Anyway I agree about BAE probably being the best option, and interesting to hear how the transformers in the console itself impact the sound. I have only been able to hear units as outboard, myself. I wonder if anyone makes like...the console part as an ad on.

As for Warm, I actually do still use my Warm 273EQ and quite like it for certain things. However, I did mod it to use sowter output transformers. I don't think the actual build quality is bad on my warm unit, tbh. It's quite solid and looks nicely-done inside. I did move the location of the transformers, though, to get less hum.