Let me start of by saying I love the Neumanns. I've been working with them for about 2 years now and their size and accuracy leaves me wanting very little, but over the course of working with them, I've begun to notice a few "quirks" that are making me want to upgrade.

I've begun to hear that "chemical" or "plastic" quality to the sound that people often talk about, and while it's far from a deal breaker, it does become a bit irritating after long work sessions. For what it's worth, I mix in a very poor environment. A 3m wide, 3.5m long, and 3m high room. It's all concrete and in a basement. I've done my best to treat the room with a stupid amount of bass traps, and while far from perfect, it's manageable.

So, I suppose my main question would be, is it even worth upgrading to something better? Just as an example, I've been looking at the PSI A17Ms and found a stupidly good deal on my local used market, but that's still VERY BIG money for where I'm from. What are some other good small/medium sized monitors I should be looking at? Should I be looking for new ones at all?

What do you chads think? Cheers!

keep the kh's and add a sub - for reasons mentioned in the studio building/acoustics forum...

I upgraded to Focal Solo6 Be. Runned them in parallel with Kh120a for couple of days, then put Neumanns for sale and never looked back.

I upgraded to ATC SCM25A’s from mine, but if I was in a square room, I probably wouldn’t make the same move.

FWIW, I sold my KH120’s to a client whose home studio I’m hired to work at once a week and I continue to love working on the Neumanns and my mixes turn out great on them.

I like the suggestion of getting the KH750 sub.

310s

Seriously try them. They are great!

If you like them why sell them?

Sometimes bigger isn't always better but why not try the KH310? Or add a sub like someone mentioned.

Speakers are very subjective but I've been more then happy with my Hedd type 20 mkIIs. They got some very nice features and my mixes took a jump in quality overnight. LowMid resolution is awesome, toppend has to be experienced and the linerazer - making low-end and toppend phase coherent is a great feature!

You really need to demo whatever speaker you're interested in but it's always nice to start with speakers that are usually mentioned here on GS.

I'll look into those as well then. Thanks!

I actually have considered both of these options, but given my less than superb mixing environment, an acoustician friend of mine told me that it would just worsen the problem in my tiny space.

FWIW, before trying out the KH120ies, I also demoed Focal Alpha 80ies, Adam A7xes, and Eve SC207s. All great speakers in their own regard, but they all just absolutely flooded my place with bass. The KH120ies really are great for my situation, but they do still leave something to be desired.

I mentioned it in the post bellow here, but I'm afraid a bigger speaker with that kind of low end extension is going to be a problem in my very unforgiving acoustic space.

Now yes, I could do more to fix that (and I am), but it's more so the sound of the Neumanns that's beginning to take it's toll on me. I absolutely hate this term, but they dont sound very "musical" to me. They're cold, brutally honest, and yes, mixes translate super well on them. But at some point during mixing, I get exhausted from that, and I wanna see if there's anything out there that can rectify that issue.

And ofcourse, I plan to demo them. The only issue is that the country I'm from doesn't supply or stock things like Neumanns, PMCs, ATC, PSI, Hedd and so on, so I have to really narrow down my search, order from thomann or other dealers and then send back what I don't want. Just trying to minimize the ****ing around I'll be doing down the line.

Small space = try Amphion's. One15 or Two15s maybe.

Even of the 310s go very low I think they are worth a try. Their midrange is stellar.

Spend the money treating your space to tame the problem frequencies before you buy new monitors.
Then get some KH 310s.
They are fantastic!

It seems like the problem is an un/badly-treated room and too good speakers...?

Being in a similar position, I want to move to the 310s. I'm actually happy with the Neumann sound.

I tried the 750 sub, but it was too much because I live in an apartment building - something to consider.

I see a lot of people suggesting ATC SCM25As, but honestly, since I often make dance music I would like a monitor that goes a bit lower (the 25s seem to go down to 47Hz, versus 34Hz with the 310s).

I hear good things about the Dutch & Dutch, and I want to test them, but for me that would be an upgrade after the 310s (if I ever make the kind of money to justify such a move).

Like I said, it's far from perfect, but it works just fine with the KH120ies. From my limited experience, they're a bit more forgiving than larger speakers which is what I'm worried about in the first place.

Sorry for the sarcasm...
My suggestion is that you look up acoustic treatment in studio environments and spend a little bit of money and time on improving on your room and setup.

A little bit of that made my 120's sound like they were worth double their price.

Heh, my bad. I didn't pick up on it

My control room is currently decked out with around 12 broadband absorbers. One to the left, one to the right, 5 behind me and 5 behind the speakers. I suppose a smarter/more strategic arangement or perhaps ditching a few and getting superchunk traps would improve my situation.

Cheers

Allright so I found my new speakers, but before I did, I spent almost a grand on some proper bass traps as well.

I sold my KH120ies and ended up finding a pair of K&H O300Ds for 1700€. Was kind of hard to pass up for the price and I am very, VERY happy with them so far. I didn't think it would be a big improvement but holy Christmas it is.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

Wow that's a steal! Where did you find this deal?

For context, I'm from Slovenia. There's an online used market here called bolha.com, but after a month of being up, the ads become inactive and the page for the ad gets blurred.

I just did the inspect element thing, got rid of the blur and found the guys phone number. He had em up for 1900 for almost a year, so I cut him a deal :D

KH120 are great loudspeakers-you may struggle ro upgrade if you would like to maintain the size..and Neumann/K&H are great. I know and own(ed) most of their loudspeakers and was always amazed about their sound quality. Heed are worth a try, ATC, Genelec one series as well…however, you ma not gain sound quality just add a different flavour

I’m also using the KH120’s in a small room. I really like the KH120’s and I pair them with an Eve TS108 sub which works well.
However, I’m considering upgrading these and I’m either considering swapping the Eve sub for the KH750dsp sub or replace the KH120’s and Eve sub with :-

Neumann KH150dsp
Focal ST6 Solo 6
IK Precision 5

Also, in the new Neumann MA1 software there are files for a KH120II. I’m going to wait to see what this is as I’m wondering if it will be the KH120’s with added dsp or whether there are other significant changes.

Is there anything of significantly better quality than the KH310s for the price? I'm also upgrading from KH120s, which I love, but haven't really found anything better than the 310s unless you spend quite a bit more. I'm looking for 8'' monitors - the KH150s are of no interest to me, especially given they are expensive for 6.5'' speakers.

+1.

I dislike the Beryllium on that other brand, like nails on a chalkboard to my ears.

You can easily spend a lot more and get monitors that are not nearly as good as KH 310's.

Yes I heard Focal and Neumann side by side a few times. First it feels the Neumann's are lacking info in the higher registers, but after a while the Beryllium tweeters start to get on my nerves. And the info is there, just not so much in your face.

Still if I had to decide between a Focal SM9 or a Neumann 420 I'd have a problem. The SM9 is really, really good!

With 310s vs Focal Trio no contest. I'd take the Neumann any time.

You did exactly what I wished to suggest.
Congrats.

I also use two K+H subs when an earthquake needs to be properly masked.

Upgraded from Neumann to Focal and will never ever buy Neumann for monitoring ever again.
It's all just hype and name

^What a silly, troll comment. You don’t even state which neumann/focal monitors you’re speaking of, let alone offer any evidence of your accusation.

Sorry Sissi, I went from 310 to Trio6 Be

Objectively (meaning considering all it's measurable qualities like frequency response; impulse response; directivity etc) there isn't anything that's better quality than the KH310s for the price. I've got a pair, I'm very used to the Neumann "boringly flat" house sound, I love them for work... BUT if someone comes from some more "gutsy" sounding speakers like some of the Barefoots than I can totally understand that first they find the Neumanns extremely dull and they want something more inspiring sounding, something that's more "visceral".

You say you would upgrade from KH120s and you love it's sound. In that case 99.99% you will love the KH310 and it's a perfect upgrade path for you. But there are alternatives that if you've got a chance well worth auditioning. ( You mentioned "I'm looking for 8'' monitors" which I don't really understand. Driver cone size doesn't give you much info about how the speaker will sound and behave without knowing the other speaker design qualities like crossover frequencies, sealed vs ported design etc. So if you don't mind I will completely disregard this, and I will suggest you alternatives that are not necessarily 8".)

Non of these 3-way speakers I suggest you to test measure better and non of these are more "neutral" out of the box than the KH310 but all of these have some qualities that makes them well worth auditioning. Here is my short "subjective" comparison vs the KH310.

1. HEDD Type 20
(I've only compared the mkI version to the KH310, I'm sure the new mkII is even better)

+ way more built in room correction/tuning options
+ (I never tested this feature, because it's only available on the new mkII models but on these new mkIIs there are these "port plugs". With these the cabinet can be changed from ported to sealed resulting in completely different in room bass behavior)
+ more "obvious" sounding above 8-10kHz, easier to make mix decisions in the "sheen"/cymbal sizzle region
+ way more powerful
+ a tiny bit cheaper in the UK/Europe

- I preferred marginally the bass clarity on the KH310
- I clearly preferred the mid clarity on the KH310s
- For some reason I made mix decisions faster on the KH310s

These Type 20s are great monitors. Perhaps if I fiddled more with the tuning options I could have better matched them to my taste/room (in the new mkII there is an onboard Lineariser, so tuning the speaker to your room and your preferences is much easier than it was on the mkI) In my modest sized studio room (roughly 20m2) the provided extra power was unnecessary but perhaps your room is bigger and in that case perhaps these are clear winners for you over the KH310s.

2. EVE audio SC3070
(As it was released after my KH310 purchase, I only listened to the SC3070 briefly , it wasn't a serious side by side comparison.)

+ much cheaper
+ it's much lighter (it even feels smaller, but I'm not sure whether that's true)
+ built in proper EQ, not just the shelving/bell switches you find on the KH310

- Bass below 40-45Hz is clearer on the KH310 and the bass goes a bit deeper on the KH310

But based on my short listening test I found no other negatives whatsoever. I think I could easily work on these but obviously I would need way more time with them to decide which ones I would prefer for work these or the KH310s. Perhaps because it's ported design the SC3070 wouldn't behave as "tamed" in the bass region as my KH310s, and I think I preferred the tweeter sound of the KH310 but I would have to listen to them side by side to decide.
A pair of these SC3070s are nearly £900 cheaper than the KH310. I never tried any EVE audio subs, but what if you buy the SC3070 and you spend the saved £900 on their TS110 or TS112 subs. I'm pretty sure an SC3070+TS110 combo is an insanely capable 4-way system that's going to compete really-really well against the KH310. (or perhaps try the EVE audio SC4070. I never heard them but that's a 4x 250W main system, the KH310 is "only" 210+90+90W peak if I'm correct and the SC4070 is only less than £300/pair more expensive than the KH310.)


3. KS Digital A200
+ Insane bass that stays clear even below 30Hz
+ way more powerful
+ I preferred it over the KH310, it was the same "neutral" sound but it always felt more lively, more gutsy, more inspiring.

- much heavier
- more expensive (at the moment a pair is roughly £400-500 more than the KH310)
- outside of Germany it is pretty much a "small/boutique" company, so distribution/servicing is perhaps a potential risk

These are phenomenal speakers, period. If at the time I heard these I would have had the extra money, and if I lived in (or near) Germany I think I would have bought them.

Finally:
there are also some quality 2-way speakers in this price range (speakers like the PSI Audio A17-M, the Adam S2V etc.) I wouldn't miss out testing some of these alternatives just because they are 2-ways. Perhaps in your particular room/studio one of these are behaving better than any of the above 3-ways. (As an example, I've heard so many quality monitors and for some reason the old 2-way KRK Expose E8B is still one of my all time favorite. It's sound is very different than my loved Neumann KH310s, but for some reason I just clicked with those Exposes, I always found them to be phenomenal even though they are only 2-way.)

My 2 cents