New Korg MS-20 Mini - Page 101

riddimshakk · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Is it ok to still discuss the noise? I was extremely irritated with that nms guy (good riddance!) and was determined to love the mini no matter what. But, really, there's a lot of white noise on top of a lot of sounds. Very frustrating, considering there are kick ass sounds to be had with this thing.

On the fence about just returning it. I don't need it. I have other monos. I'm not rich these days, although I guess it wasn't expensive considering the cost of a vintage ms20. I had always dreamed of owning an ms20, and I thought this was my chance.

Let's assume the amount of noise is equivalent to a mark I original. I guess the reason they changed the filter design was because it was too noisy. Sure, it's bitching sounding, but maybe also a bit unusable for recording. Oh, and BTW, I record to 24 track, 2" Sony/MCI at 15 ips with no noise reduction, so please don't accuse me of being a digital "all noise is the enemy" type. Sorry to ramble. Just thought i'd throw in my 2 pesos. Cheers!

I think it doesn't matter really if the unit is the same as a mk1 or whatever.With what you have said in your post it looks like a simple decision factor...
Can you or can you not live with it ??
There have been mixed reviews by some other new owners. Some are not having any issue while others are experiencing the same as you have described.
I think that if you or anyone else who has a new unit & feels that it is too noisy ,well, if you don't want it, send it back with your legitimate reason but if you think it's just that 1 unit & still want one, get a replacement.
You might be in a good position in a little way because you can try a second unit & kinda judge weather or not there are any notable differences between the two.
To me that seems quite easy. It's up to you. Good luck with it

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️

there's a MK1 example on nms' thread. very low noise compared to the ms20 mini example.
as is my MK2 example. but also allot duller. i think a dynamic filter / de-noiser would probably fix your noise problem. i may put his example through my de-noiser to show.

Haha, I'm all analog--I'm thinking you're suggesting some kind of plug-in filter/denoiser. I could conceivably notch out the noise, but wouldn't that affect the fundamental tone, as well? I'm mainly a guitar player. I'm certainly used to noise. The mini seems really bad, though...

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️

in fact why not upload your flute patch as a wav here and i'll de-noise it for you, see what you think

Good suggestion. Given my digital limitations, I'm not sure how I would go about doing that. Perhaps it would be interesting if other new mini owners would dial in the flute patches from the manual and report their findings. For me, the patches were unusable. Also, I'm sure more digi-technically adept people could upload the patches for you.

xanax · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Hi, I am not an expert in synthesis, but I just got my new mini and I'm frustrated by the noise. I am a total low-fi guy, but I'm seriously thinking of returning this thing. I've only played with it for an hour, so what do I know.

I suggest sticking with it for a little longer (if your return policy permits you). 1 hour is honestly not at all enough time to figure out this polarizing complex instrument. fwiw I do sympathize with your concern over the noise issue, i had it too at first but for me it was a little bit like a music album you've been waiting forever to drop and you feel initially let down because maybe it's not what you expected but with time it grows on you and may even end up being a favorite

. that's how i feel but of course it very well might be the opposite for you.. i'm just saying give it a second chance, i've figured out tons of cool patches where u can't hear the hiss at all... btw i haven't tried the flute patch but the flute being a wind instrument, i don't think noise would be too shocking but i'll try and give it a shot..

**golden beers** · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Haha, I'm all analog--I'm thinking you're suggesting some kind of plug-in filter/denoiser. I could conceivably notch out the noise, but wouldn't that affect the fundamental tone, as well? I'm mainly a guitar player. I'm certainly used to noise. The mini seems really bad, though...

no i'm not. actually i'm thinking about a berhinger snr 1000. which is a hardware unit and can be found on ebay for less than £15.

I also have a more expensive drawmer,DF320, which is my go-to hardware noise solution. but honestly, i think the berhinger is great too, i have an snr 1000 and 2000.

shame that you cant record audio onto your computer.

PS. if you set it up right, it wont affect the tone. it senses the frequency output and adjusts the low pass accordingly, a bit like an automatic key-follow filter, well thats the way the drawmer works, haven't used the berhingers in a while... to cheap to bother selling ;D

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddimshakk ➡️

I think it doesn't matter really if the unit is the same as a mk1 or whatever.With what you have said in your post it looks like a simple decision factor...
Can you or can you not live with it ??
There have been mixed reviews by some other new owners. Some are not having any issue while others are experiencing the same as you have described.
I think that if you or anyone else who has a new unit & feels that it is too noisy ,well, if you don't want it, send it back with your legitimate reason but if you think it's just that 1 unit & still want one, get a replacement.
You might be in a good position in a little way because you can try a second unit & kinda judge weather or not there are any notable differences between the two.
To me that seems quite easy. It's up to you. Good luck with it

Thanks, R-shack. I can't imagine that there are people who don't hear this noise. It's excessive. I suppose people have different monitoring environments and extents of deafness!!!

Do we really think that there might be so much variety in production models of the new mini? Some posters have claimed they don't hear any noise at all. (I know all these comments/suggestion have been made before.)

It's not the simplest decision about whether to return it. There is an awesome & unique analog goodness lurking in this synth. I guess I'll probably try exchanging it, but it would be nice to know whether there is even a possibility of getting a quieter unit. I'm not sure if we've hammered down whether the noise is endemic to the new production model, or just a result of variances in production tolerances between different units.

In the meantime, I'll play with it for a few more days and report back if I have any more insights.

RJ.MacReady · 19th June 2013

I'd like to make a general suggestion that, if you can, anyone discussing the mini's noise in your unit if you would post an example it would keep the discussion productive and objective (and more helpful!). If you are unable to then of course that's understandable.

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanax ➡️

I suggest sticking with it for a little longer (if your return policy permits you). 1 hour is honestly not at all enough time to figure out this polarizing complex instrument. fwiw I do sympathize with your concern over the noise issue, i had it too at first but for me it was a little bit like a music album you've been waiting forever to drop and you feel initially let down because maybe it's not what you expected but with time it grows on you and may even end up being a favorite

. that's how i feel but of course it very well might be the opposite for you.. i'm just saying give it a second chance, i've figured out tons of cool patches where u can't hear the hiss at all... btw i haven't tried the flute patch but the flute being a wind instrument, i don't think noise would be too shocking but i'll try and give it a shot..

Yes, it's true, one hour is not much. I definitely can dial up some sounds that have no noise, or at least in which the noise is masked. Curious to hear what you think about the flute patches. Of course, a flute patch should have a bit of noise to replicate wind/throat sounds. But what I heard goes way beyond expected flute artifacts. Please report back.

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️

no i'm not. actually i'm thinking about a berhinger snr 1000. which is a hardware unit and can be found on ebay for less than £15.

I also have a more expensive drawmer,DF320, which is my go-to hardware noise solution. but honestly, i think the berhinger is great too, i have an snr 1000 and 2000.

shame that you cant record audio onto your computer.

OT, somewhat: got ya. But I'm kind of averse to denoisers in the first place. Also, I have no problems with noise on my vintage monos such as micromoog and pro one. I mean, other than scratchy switches

**golden beers** · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

OT, somewhat: got ya. But I'm kind of averse to denoisers in the first place. Also, I have no problems with noise on my vintage monos such as micromoog and pro one. I mean, other than scratchy switches

well it seems to me that the new ones are noisy and bright. the originals are quiet (in noise terms) and dark in comparison.

a dynamic filter, such as the berhinger could certainly darken the output - if you set it up to do so... may sound closer to the MK1/2 if you put it though a de-noiser ... if that's something that floats your boat.

i have a personal theory that the new ms20mini has the same circuit but better amps - more frequency range and headroom (ie modern) . this would explain the more noticeable noise and brightness.

SonicBern 🎙️ · 19th June 2013

sammymyman · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanax ➡️

^ it's a noise gate... guitarists need to learn about synths before making useless suggestions

silly human
trix are for kids........ but maybe you should study-up on noise gates, and then study-up on the noise-clamp. Then, I'd like a 500 word essay on the differences between Guitar pedal based noise, and the ms20mini noise.... and
exactly how/why the mxr noiseclamp won't work for the task at hand.

I KNOW synths....... I have a pedalboard...... I use it for synths......
I took the noise clamp to my local ms-20mini store, and tested it.
It works.

Perhaps I'll learn guitar- sounds like fun. now stfu.

willsanquil · 19th June 2013

my newest ms20 vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nXEYr4cdUw8

reddit.com/r/ms20

**golden beers** · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammymyman ➡️

I'd like a 500 word essay on the differences between Guitar pedal based noise, and the ms20mini noise

apologies for my facetiousness, but i can answer that in 50 words:

guitar pedal based noise can often be a constant background noise.
the noise on the ms20 mini only happens when the vca is triggered/opened. ie: when a key is pressed. there is no overt constant background noise.

a noise gate will do nothing to reduce noise produced by the ms20mini.

dexfx69 · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknobeam ➡️

Interesting...Korg stepped up to the plate and provided an analog clone of the famed MS20...in all of it's previous glory complete with "nuances"..Now it seems that people want to "cherry pick" the nuances. So then it becomes an MS20 clone with only "some ", or "acceptable " nuances? "hiss" was a reality of making music circa MS20...It didn't seem to stop people from cranking out a plethora of great music including a bunch of hits. You can get bogged down in the mire of minutia and forget about making music at all. Side step the hiss and make some music.

This ^ is the most beneficial, to the point, honest factual post so far on the noise topic.

No offense meant towards anyone's concern for the noise, or to those defending the noise. The reality is this:

The original MS-20 has a little VCA noise - it's part of the design and sound character. But the MS-20 Mini is usually brighter than the original MS-20 due to new components (as stated by the original/mini designer recently). This means more treble, and more attendant hiss. Easy fix: Turn your mixer's high (treble) eq down about 6db. And for heavens sake, don't listen on headphones, which reveal all the high end in exaggeration, with little mid-lows to fill out the sound. And make sure you plug line out to line in (not lo-z guitar input!) of your mixer.

I really hope folks don't miss out on buying or keeping the MS-20 Mini due to fear of some noise which is inherent in the original (and current) design. This is one raw mofo, if you can handle it. It is a wild ride, not a clean polite vst or digital synth. Lots of quirks - and lots of balls - T-Rex sized. Kinda like a bronco ride - you might get some dust in your mouth but what a high!

payt · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicBern ➡️

Sounds very nice.. no obvious noise problems here, but i suppose there are ways to mask it? Or is this a noise-free ms 20 mini?

Hope i can try one of these soon

SonicBern 🎙️ · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by payt ➡️

Sounds very nice.. no obvious noise problems here, but i suppose there are ways to mask it? Or is this a noise-free ms 20 mini?

Hope i can try one of these soon

I doubt they would try to mask it intentionally, just looks like someone having fun...

I suspect all will be similar but not exact..

Trying one is the best bet, see how you like it, reserve judgment as what may annoy others may not annoy you. Only thing is, if the headphones you use exaggerate something then you may never know what it sounds like recorded through your mixer, unless you believe the recordings posted on the net you may never really know without owning and using one

xanax · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammymyman ➡️

silly human
trix are for kids........ but maybe you should study-up on noise gates, and then study-up on the noise-clamp. Then, I'd like a 500 word essay on the differences between Guitar pedal based noise, and the ms20mini noise.... and
exactly how/why the mxr noiseclamp won't work for the task at hand.

I KNOW synths....... I have a pedalboard...... I use it for synths......
I took the noise clamp to my local ms-20mini store, and tested it.
It works.

Perhaps I'll learn guitar- sounds like fun. now stfu.

because a picture is worth a thousand words...

lu77 · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Yes, it's true, one hour is not much. I definitely can dial up some sounds that have no noise, or at least in which the noise is masked. Curious to hear what you think about the flute patches. Of course, a flute patch should have a bit of noise to replicate wind/throat sounds. But what I heard goes way beyond expected flute artifacts. Please report back.

I think theres a reason that the ms-20 is known for the big abrasive sounds - because the triangle wave and softer sounds like flute don't sound great.

you've gotta go with your heart. you shouldn't feel guilty about not liking something you spent hard earnt cash on. but I'd be going for big banging noises and having as much fun asylum can. then decide. ok do I still want it?

I think a point made previously that the mini brute has much better range is a fair one. I wonder if people are buying the ms 20 mini and expecting that flexible range of sounds that synths esp. digital ones have nowadays? the ms is really much better at its own particular style.

JoeM'Geek · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by dexfx69 ➡️

This ^ is the most beneficial, to the point, honest factual post so far on the noise topic.

No offense meant towards anyone's concern for the noise, or to those defending the noise. The reality is this:

The original MS-20 has a little VCA noise - it's part of the design and sound character. But the MS-20 Mini is usually brighter than the original MS-20 due to new components (as stated by the original/mini designer recently). This means more treble, and more attendant hiss. Easy fix: Turn your mixer's high (treble) eq down about 6db. And for heavens sake, don't listen on headphones, which reveal all the high end in exaggeration, with little mid-lows to fill out the sound. And make sure you plug line out to line in (not lo-z guitar input!) of your mixer.

I really hope folks don't miss out on buying or keeping the MS-20 Mini due to fear of some noise which is inherent in the original (and current) design. This is one raw mofo, if you can handle it. It is a wild ride, not a clean polite vst or digital synth. Lots of quirks - and lots of balls - T-Rex sized. Kinda like a bronco ride - you might get some dust in your mouth but what a high!

This all makes perfect sense

slujj vohaul · 19th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by lu77 ➡️

I think theres a reason that the ms-20 is known for the big abrasive sounds - because the triangle wave and softer sounds like flute don't sound great.

...

I think a point made previously that the mini brute has much better range is a fair one.

Agreed, for sure. - someone that has owned both the Minibrute and MS20mini.

(That said, I don't regret making the switch at all.)

CthonicEwes · 19th June 2013

Does anyone think the new mini might also just need a bit of burn-in to mellow it out? i know hi-end hi-fi audio guys are always extolling the virtues of burn-in and it often seems like a lot of nonsense. But I think I'll leave my new mini on for a day or two and maybe the electronics will settle in a bit. Please feel free to tell me I'm off my rocker...

willsanquil · 19th June 2013

A video where I process an external signal with the MS20, then denoise it with Izotope RX2.

MS 20 External Signal Processing, Denoising - YouTube

sammy123 · 20th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Does anyone think the new mini might also just need a bit of burn-in to mellow it out? i know hi-end hi-fi audio guys are always extolling the virtues of burn-in and it often seems like a lot of nonsense. But I think I'll leave my new mini on for a day or two and maybe the electronics will settle in a bit. Please feel free to tell me I'm off my rocker...

I think decades can alter the sounds of electronics. 10s or 100s of hours is realistic for speakers.

sctt_stone · 20th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammymyman ➡️

silly human
trix are for kids........ but maybe you should study-up on noise gates, and then study-up on the noise-clamp. Then, I'd like a 500 word essay on the differences between Guitar pedal based noise, and the ms20mini noise.... and
exactly how/why the mxr noiseclamp won't work for the task at hand.

I KNOW synths....... I have a pedalboard...... I use it for synths......
I took the noise clamp to my local ms-20mini store, and tested it.
It works.

Perhaps I'll learn guitar- sounds like fun. now stfu.

Are you trying to get this guy killed?
Everybody knows if you plug a synth into a guitar pedal it will turn into a robot and swallow you whole!

chaosium · 20th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

i know hi-end hi-fi audio guys are always extolling the virtues of burn-in

They also rub green highlighters on their CDs and buy $500 "stabilizing magnets" for their LPs.

sctt_stone · 20th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CthonicEwes ➡️

Does anyone think the new mini might also just need a bit of burn-in to mellow it out? i know hi-end hi-fi audio guys are always extolling the virtues of burn-in and it often seems like a lot of nonsense. But I think I'll leave my new mini on for a day or two and maybe the electronics will settle in a bit. Please feel free to tell me I'm off my rocker...

Leave it on for a couple of years.

willsanquil · 20th June 2013

btw if you leave your mini alone for 4 hours turned on, it will turn itself off. pays to read that manual

colthawker · 20th June 2013

Video of an original unit, but this patch has been one of my favorite things to play around with so far. There's a detailed PDF patch linked under the video, but it needed some adjustments: Triangle MG out goes to keyboard trig-in, and I had to turn the sustain up a notch. Fooling around with the filters a bit, I got a patch that sounded very close to "4JG" by Human League.

kim olesen · 20th June 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden beers ➡️

i have a personal theory that the new ms20mini has the same circuit but better amps - more frequency range and headroom (ie modern) . this would explain the more noticeable noise and brightness.

Pretty sure this is true

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