Of course, I should have been more precise and say that it doesn’t sound like an old osc board minimoog, on which the boog is based on, that’s been well calibrated and serviced with the trim pots changed etc. Which I happen to have around.

Btw, I just built an MME which is also based on the same revision of the minimoog and that sounds and behaves basically on point with the original.

Yeah and then other guy with Minimoog would happen by and say, oh my filter or vcos sound a differently/whistlier/gnarlier, or it has memory effect with envelopes etc.

There is no National Prototype of Minimoog sound in Paris International Bureau of Weights and Measures

Yes there is, it’s called the Moog Minimoog Model D service manual. See the longer version of the calibration procedures. Two minimoogs based on the same boards with these procedures applied sound extremely close. We’re talking the Boog behaving in a completely and measurable different way in three aspects: filter self oscillation, VCO summing and logarithmic potentiometer behavior.

I’ve got an SH5 along with some others mentioned here and played with most of the other Roland monos.

SH5 is very different than pro1. Listen to some demos to get an idea of the sound differences.

So the pro 1 **for me** sounds drier, thinner. The envelopes are WAY better, more responsive, snappy etc. the filter sucks compared to the sh5. The modulation options are superior on the pro 1.

I’m not someone who thinks most oscillators sound the same. Totally disagree.

The SH5 has FAT oscillators. They sound great. Chunky, really like them. The LPF on this beast is incredible and really doesn’t get the credit it deserves. I’ve got access to some of the best/most widely admired filters in synths including an original TVS-1 and sh5 filter & oscillators are right there…incredible. The filter is indeed an 24 db diode ladder filter and the resonance on the LPF is amazing, so liquid and useable all the way up. As mentioned the BPF is the best ever made. Never heard anything like it or come close. I wish you could modulate it but honestly it’s still incredible without that feature. The mixer section is great. I often don’t have the volume of BPF all the way up but having some mixed in can alter the timbre of the sound in wonderful ways. The ring mod is great for thickening up a sound by having the volume slider partially up.
Now the negatives… my biggest issue is the envelopes. They are not fast and snappy like the JP-4 or system100m. Also the 2nd envelope only being AR sucks. The other issue I have is it’s often a difficult synth to make work with others. It can be difficult, it’s not just a sweet spot synth, it’s fiddly (in terms of playing well with others).
The system 100 is VERY similar. It’s more modular and substantially more expensive if buying all parts. It does not have the infamous BPF but the envelopes are much better, snappier not as sluggish. The oscillators & filter are near identical to sh5.

The system 100m is different yet again. It has the lovely BA662 filter and envelopes are a lot snappier. Def diff oscillators & filter on these compared to sh5/system 100. Filter is a bit more rubbery, less silky and oscillators are not quite as big/chunky, maybe a bit more “stiff” for lack of a better term.

Anyways I love the 3 Roland’s. I’m not as much of a fan of the pro one.

https://www.florian-anwander.de/roland_filters/

Some technical info on the filters of the 3 Roland’s and others to compare. And there’s an Alex ball video comparing the filters of these synths which is useful to hear oscillators & filters.
Hope it helps, good luck !

Some people wrote the Behringer Pro-1 was harsh sounding, but the original Pro-One is also very harsh and rough sounding.

Pro-One demo by the same guy who did the SH-5 one:
https://greatsynthesizers.com/wp/wp-...pro1_bass2.mp3

Thanks. Do you think it would be worth it to buy the SH-5 oscillators as well?? (I already have the VCF) They are sold out right now, but they might make them again in the near future.

If you already have a decent analogue sawtooth core VCO there is probably no need for an SH-5 VCO clone module. Although there is something very nice about the SH-5's oscillators, the moment you clone the circuit and take it outside the SH-5, it will not sound exactly the same. There is more to the sound of the VCO than the components that it is made from.

The circuit board layout, the local power supply, control voltage pathway, nearby circuits, internal wiring, and the whole audio pathway of the synth will affect the sound. Often it is all these that determine the sound of an 'oscillator'.

Have to agree with this. I don't have an SH5 but do have an SH7, SH2 and ProOne and a few others mentioned here. The Rolands are so liquid, classy and beefy. And that resonance. Wow. The ProOne is so much harsher and drier. It has its place tho, and great when you want that thing... But the Rolands are something else.

Unfortunately I cannot comment on this. I don’t own any modules or clones so I have no experience with the sound or implementation of those.

OK.

G-storm Electro's clones/recreations of vintage filters, like the roland ones are superb. I have the SH5 filter module, it is my most favourite filter i've ever owned so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _space ➡️

I’ve got an SH5 along with some others mentioned here and played with most of the other Roland monos.

SH5 is very different than pro1. Listen to some demos to get an idea of the sound differences.

So the pro 1 **for me** sounds drier, thinner. The envelopes are WAY better, more responsive, snappy etc. the filter sucks compared to the sh5. The modulation options are superior on the pro 1.

I’m not someone who thinks most oscillators sound the same. Totally disagree.

The SH5 has FAT oscillators. They sound great. Chunky, really like them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthbuilder ➡️

If you already have a decent analogue sawtooth core VCO there is probably no need for an SH-5 VCO clone module. Although there is something very nice about the SH-5's oscillators, the moment you clone the circuit and take it outside the SH-5, it will not sound exactly the same. There is more to the sound of the VCO than the components that it is made from.

The circuit board layout, the local power supply, control voltage pathway, nearby circuits, internal wiring, and the whole audio pathway of the synth will affect the sound. Often it is all these that determine the sound of an 'oscillator'.

I'm not trying to get the sound of the oscillators exactly the same, but closer to the SH-5, so would using SH-5 VCOs bring it closer to the sound? Basically, I'm trying to find oscillators that are less distorted and harsh than the PRO-1's. I've tested it and the PRO-1 distortion takes place at or before the mixer level. From what I can recall, the Model D was a lot less harsh, but sold it because I was frustrated with the lack of pulse width control.

Do you have any specific tips to avoid this harshness or distortion if using the SH-5 Eurorack VCO's? Apparently the SH-5 VCA and Mixer is sold as well, but any tips on avoiding distortion/harshness with any Eurorack setup would be appreciated.

Also, are there any Behringer/Eurorack compatible synths that sound more similar to the SH-5 or System 100's oscillators but have more pulse width control? That could also be be a good idea.

Having owned the System 100 before, I can say the 110 module is definitely in the ballpark.

An oscillator on its own isn't normally harsh. But if you are talking about the Behringer Pro-1 any harshness could well be caused by other things in the synth rather than the CEM3340 clones they use. Some of their designs (not all) have some serious shortcomings sadly.

When I hear harshness in a VCO it's usually because of unwanted fast moving pitch modulation. For example, any digital control signals affecting VCO pitch is pretty horrible. I don't remember the original SCi Pro One having this problem though.

If you want to check harshness the thing to do is look at the signal on a spectrum analyser. Most DAWs have one built in. The one in Ableton Live is very good. Harshness will show up as side bands to the main signal's harmonics. A clean VCO signal should be a series of spikes with little happening at the base of the spikes. A harsh VCO can have movement and noticeable activity around the bases of each spike.

A great sounding analogue VCO is this one:

https://ajhsynth.com/VCO.html

I can also confirm Synthbuilders comments that the AJH vcos are really great sounding and are right up there in the front with all the Rolands. Also just wanted to mention, it's not a negative that the ProOne sounds “harsher.” It's absolutely incredible, but that's just the nature of its sound.

I never thought to modulate PWM with an envelope, always an LFO so thanks for not directly answering OP’s question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthbuilder ➡️

An oscillator on its own isn't normally harsh. But if you are talking about the Behringer Pro-1 any harshness could well be caused by other things in the synth rather than the CEM3340 clones they use. Some of their designs (not all) have some serious shortcomings sadly.

When I hear harshness in a VCO it's usually because of unwanted fast moving pitch modulation. For example, any digital control signals affecting VCO pitch is pretty horrible. I don't remember the original SCi Pro One having this problem though.

If you want to check harshness the thing to do is look at the signal on a spectrum analyser. Most DAWs have one built in. The one in Ableton Live is very good. Harshness will show up as side bands to the main signal's harmonics. A clean VCO signal should be a series of spikes with little happening at the base of the spikes. A harsh VCO can have movement and noticeable activity around the bases of each spike.

A great sounding analogue VCO is this one:

https://ajhsynth.com/VCO.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by millionmiles ➡️

I can also confirm Synthbuilders comments that the AJH vcos are really great sounding and are right up there in the front with all the Rolands.

Thanks for the recommendation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonwhistle ➡️

Having owned the System 100 before, I can say the 110 module is definitely in the ballpark.

Ok. I'll consider getting these.

Just remember that the Behringer 110 module is a modern copy of the 110 module from the System 100M and not the System 100. The System 100M and System 100 are significantly different.

Oh, ok. I think I'll have to get either the SH-5 VCOs or the VCO by AJH (which is supposedly based on the Moog Model D oscillator but with more pulse width control).

Do you know if the Mixer + VCA module AJH makes is good quality as well?

This one?

https://ajhsynth.com/VCA.html

Yes, it's excellent. It's not a clean 'hi-fi' VCA in terms of noise and distortion. But it will be similar to the one in the SH-5 in several respects.

Yep. Thanks again.