I don't know who Moodymann is, but I thought that was Akira Ishikawa. Which would be an extremely deep cut for a skin for a sampler.

Hi there!

What do you use to map the extra functionality?

There's a certain amount of misunderstanding of the SP-404MK2 from folks that are perhaps new to the SP-series or not in the core community of users. Most of the things that seem weird, convoluted, or dated are because it's essentially a modern update to a quirky legacy product...the longest-selling sampler on market really. The SP-404 sold new for like 15 years straight. Imagine if the MPC2000 was still selling new.

SPs were not originally designed for music production, but as a little portable FX box and phrase sampler for live DJ sets. Making complete beats on it was a complete workflow hack. (side note: the few SP models that were more music production oriented like the 505 and 606 flopped) In typical Roland fashion, those user hacks combined with the limitations of the SP-303 and SP-404 inspired a whole sub-genre and huge community of diehard users. So what Roland did with the 404MK2 was consult with the SP-community and apparently the general consensus was they wanted features they found missing but it still had to look and feel like a Roland SP-404.

Using a Launchcontrol XL with a USB midi host box. All the mapping is done with Novation's software.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DAziSU9JN8O/?img_index=1

Perhaps with the MK2 manual, Roland assumed their target user was somewhat familiar with Roland SPs...or they probably just rushed it out. LOL

Taken from page 8 of the SP-303 manual (2001):

13 REMAIN Button
When this button is pressed, the display will indicate the remaining time available for sampling.
Additionally, by pressing pads while holding down this button, you can select the samples for which you want to add effects or change settings.

--------------
Taken from page 3 of the 404A manual (2017)

[REMAIN] button
Makes the display indicate the remaining time available for sampling . p .25
In addition, you can hold down this button and press a pad to specify the sample to which p .13 you want to apply an effect, or to specify the sample whose settings you want to edit (modify current pad) .

Thank you! I’ve one of the first gen launchcontrols so it might work. Is there any specific USB midi host box you’d recommend?

I've only used this one, so can't compare to others. It was the simplest, cheapest I could find. Works perfectly...no difference vs using USB. I just power it and the 404 off a powerbank I have mounted underneath my little pedalboard.

https://reverb.com/item/56088624-rio...nterface-white

Roland: "We must be forever moving forwards and not look back. We refuse to re-release our legacy products, despite immense demand, because we must continue to display the same innovation that created those wonderful legacy instruments. We will continue to use the Fantom, Jupiter and Juno names for new products to represent our innovative path and the spirit of what those instruments represent."

Also Roland: "We will re-release the SP404 after 15 years, and keep it as similar as possible to not disrupt our legacy."

Meanwhile, on the SP404mk2, the [REMAIN] button is used for the following functions:

Under the Control section, the function of the [REMAIN] button is described as:

"While the button is pressed, the data that's set for the las pad you pressed is shown".

In reality, it's also used for the following functions:

- Hold [REMAIN] down to between PROJECT or NAME when editing a filename,
- Hold down [REMAIN] whilst pitch bending to not affect MIDI clock
- [SHIFT] + [REVERSE] + [REMAIN]: Latch the Shift + Reverse keys when being held down
- Activate Live Mode (Hold for three seconds)
- Sets which sample playback audio is sent to which bus (meaning which effects are used) for each sample.
- Sets the bus send destination for all samples in a bank.
- Makes the effect edit screen keep displaying.
- You can swap the effects of BUS 1 and BUS 2. When the effects are switched, the effect parameter values are retained.
- Lets you simultaneously edit the parameters of samples that are registered to the same bank.in the envelope and pitch/speed settings screen
- In Mark mode, latches the [SHIFT] button
- In Chromatic mode, switch between Legato, Mono and Poly
- Exiting the locked effects setting screen
- Previewing sounds generated by the bass synth
- Toggles whether loop start points can move between the loop end point
- Hold down to change all envelope parameters simultaneously
- Hold down [REMAIN] with the value knob to change pad colour in the pad setting screen
- Displaying parameters set in a sample
- Switching Pattern Recording method between step and TR-REC
- Switching between TRIG and HOLD STEP mode in TR-Rec mode
- Set a pattern chain to repeat or not
- Setting whether to record pad mutes
- Displaying the pads that are used in a pattern

Did I miss anything? Easy enough to remember? Should be very straightforward for users of the original SP404 to pick up!

Thanks again. Greatly appreciated.

The similarity of the MKII with previous SP-404s is surface level. At release when I saw that they'd retained a similar interface I thought they'd keep the new stuff in check as to not mess with the habits of the big community that had grown around the 404 and risk breaking wtv quirky magic the 404 conjured but holy hell they did not hold back and every update proved me wrong. The MKII respects its legacy but is a whole different beast otherwise.

Makes sense to me. REMAIN is the secondary shift button for less-commonly-used settings in a particular mode. The additional setting will depend on the mode you're in. You don't have to know or memorize that whole list. You may never use those combos, but I'd rather have the options than not.

I think folks should understand the SP-404MK2 is a pretty flexible device with different use cases. It has 10-20x the features of the previous version. No one uses every mode. You pretty much have to decide what you want to use it for, then learn that corner of the device. Yes the amount of options can seem daunting for such a limited amount knobs and buttons, but there are worse problems to have in life.

If you concentrate on learning just the modes based on what you're doing, the muscle memory will come and the function of the REMAIN button will be second nature. For instance I mostly use DJ Mode and the looper for live sets. I'm not doing a lot of sample editing, sequencing, etc., so I know what REMAIN does pertinent to that mode because I often route the pads and decks between different FX busses continuously. It's a major part of the DJ Mode workflow and allows me the flexibility to do things I can't do on other hardware like my DJ mixers or controller/software combos.

Yeah, just think of REMAIN like ALT or OPTION on your keyboard.

remain is a silly word....
hold/alt/function/shift seem better options ...i guess the level of english for the developers is not tip top.

So [REMAIN] is a secondary shift function, yet Roland themselves describe it as

"While the button is pressed, the data that's set for the las pad you pressed is shown".


I would agree with you, except in different modes and screens, other buttons work as secondary shift functions. For example, the [MARK] button switches between the EFX and Mixer view screens, but that's the only mode where the [MARK] button does that particular function?

At one point in time I thought the designers had been quite smart by softly illuminating various buttons when those buttons were active in that mode ... but no, that too turned out to be inconsistent.

Meanwhile, they have this gorgeous that they are completely wasting by displaying the tempo in 72 point font, where they could be using that, for example, to show prompts at the bottom as to what the Mark/Shift/Remain/Encoder button does in that screen. But no. They only do that on some screens. Or they could have a menu button that is active in each mode that at least allows you to scroll to the option you want if you couldn't remember the 4-button combination at that moment in time.

I've been using various bits of electronics and music gears from 80s through to today, from 8-bit microcomputers through to VCRs, Fairlight CMIs, DX7s, through to today - and the SP404mk2 is the least intuitive piece of gear I have ever owned or used.

If you think this is at all good or usable design, I hope you never flow an an aeroplane with a cockpit designed by a Roland engineer.

With the difference being that Apple designers and engineers care about the user experience.

The Command button always performs an action/verb.

The Option button modifies that action, but it's still related. eg modifying the way the Command+P pastes.

Control performs an extra modifier on top of that again. But the key thing is that the modifier keys are all related to the original verb. And there are few cases where the modifier keys are used by themselves.

In addition, almost all the features offered on a Mac are discoverable and accessible by other means, such as the menu bar - which clearly shows the keyboard shortcut as an alternative method for accessing that feature.

There is zero consistency to how the Shift/Remain/Mark/Value/Delete/Copy [Yes, there are six buttons for accessing shortcuts] buttons are used on the SP404mk2, and no alternative methods of discovery such as a menu system.

I'm guessing there is some consistency but we are not privy to it, maybe each developer had their own key

I would not argue at all with them having a scrollable cheatsheet that could be displayed on the screen, having context sensitive help and having an alternative menu system.

It's what happens when you squeeze 20x more features into the panel layout from a 15-year old device. Like I said, for what I use it for, the MK2 key combos don't bother me much. I also have a SP-303 and 404A. They sit in the closet nowadays. I'll gladly take extra power and flexibility even if it adds complexity and a learning curve. No device is perfect. If you find that's too much or don't want to dedicate the time, then the device just isn't for you.

I wonder has any of the folks complaining have ever played with esoteric musical devices like Monome? I have a Norns and a Grid...now that's a challenging UI. There are no labels at all and each script uses a different button layout. The most you get is a little pop as the script launches showing you what the 3 buttons and 3 encoders do for that particular script....then Grid is just some custom arrangement of 64 buttons. I asked on the Monome forum if someone thought of developing some sort of cheat sheet (my idea was a standardized printed cutout that surrounds the Grid like a picture frame.) It was mostly shot down by the community of script developers saying that you're expected to learn each script and memorize the layouts. It's makes using the SP-404MK2 key combos seem like child's play.

https://youtu.be/rcJuY_yBIs4?si=1Ygm07Lo0O3Pkvbt

New OS: [ Ver.4.06 ] OCT 2024
Functionality Improvement
In DJ MODE, the progress bar is now displayed while samples are being imported from the SD card.

Bug Fixes
The following bugs have been fixed.
Crash when importing a sample with a filename longer than 80 characters.
Crash occurs under certain conditions when importing samples from an SD card in DJ Mode.
When "Type:Noise2" is selected in Sound Generator, Level does not work properly.
The USB Audio Level Meter is displayed with L/R reversed.
The peak indicator function of the [EXT SOURCE] button does not work properly under certain conditions.
When recording an empty pad to the sequencer, the Note Off is not recorded correctly.
In the MUTE GROUP setting, pressing a pad that is playing in PAD MODE stops the sound.
Minor bugs.

I have uploaded version 0.36 of the guide. Go check it out at https://neartao.wordpress.com/2024/1...2-guide-v0-36/

Does anyone know if it is possible to stop the samples on pads triggering if I want to use the pads to trigger an external synth I have connected via midi please?

So basically some form of local off?

1) Turn the volume knob down
2) Delete samples off of the pads
3) use a BUS 1 or BUS 2 effect that has a level option, route pads you want to mute to the bus and set level to 0

Thanks man but option 1 and 2 then make it hard to play back the pattern that contains some of those samples and also hear it, as I want to record the pads playing the external synth into that pattern. (And then resample the external synth to audio once I have it playing as I want in the pattern).

Option 3 could work I guess but what if I want to hear those samples if they are playing in the pattern but I just don’t want them to trigger when I hit the pads to play an external synth.

Tricky one!

I’d say keep a pad bank blank for triggering external midi. Then just use that bank’s midi channel. i forget which midi mode that is off-hand.

Yeah that’s what I had planned but then came across the issue that each bank goes up an octave roughly. So say for eg I already have samples on bank a and b and leave bank c spare for the external synth, it makes it hard to play a bass as the octave for bank c is too high and bank b has samples in it.

Midi Mode A has one channel per bank... making it more predictable what/where the midi will go to some extent, but you might not care for what the pad range is.

You might need some external Midi processing regardless if you are in Midi Mode A or B anyways to get it to do what it sounds like you're trying to do.

As far as I know, there's no way to turn "local off" on the SP404 mk2 like you would on a synthesizer...

Thanks. What sort of external midi processing were you thinking please?

I think what I might do, depending on the octave I want to play in, is move any samples to different pads if they are in my way. I want to use the new feature from the 4.04 update, of using blank pads to trigger midi, just so I can then test the melody in the pattern before I resample it.

From what I remember there's two midi modes in the settings. One spreads all the sample pads across the keyboard octaves on a single midi channel and the other gives each pad bank the same notes but each bank has a separate midi channel. You would use that one, then transpose your synth to the octave you want the pads to play.

I did this with an ipad using AUM and various synth apps (Moog, Korg, etc). Worked great. It was like having a full synth rack inside my 404. All the midi and audio over one USB cable. I just wished the 404 pattern sequencer was multi-track.

Cool will experiment with that. Thanks!

I believe though, you can only use the empty pads feature to trigger external midi in midi mode B.

I have an SP-404MK2 connected to an iPhone 15 via USB-C for audio. I get the sound from SP-404 recorded into GarageBand and the voice recorder. But I cannot hear it from the iPhone speakers. Can anybody hint how to make it audible?