I'm hearing good things about Telefunken M81, supercardioid vocal dynamic, they also sell it in a shorter version as a drums/instrument mic. With the relationship between TF and Beyerdynamic this could be another good moving-coil mic. Speaking of which, after Friday's gig with M88TG on that great guitarist's amp I've ordered another one, I'll be glad when I get another brass section.... MD441 is in my city as of today according to tracking, I'm starting to feel well prepared for live music with this mic kit now! I've got some good mounts and hardware now too, I took kludgeaudio's tip and ordered Shure A53 M shock mounts
Now I think for a set of good alternative SDC's to my Oktavas I'd check out Austrian Audio CC8's next... if I had a higher budget possibly MC950's too

If you go for the Austrian SDCs, definitely report your findings! They seem great, and I don't think I've heard any real-world reviews of it yet. Plus, we seem to have similar sonic taste, so I'd be keen to get your take on them. (Of course, if you go Beyer, you'll be in good shape as well.)

Just thought I'd mention, prompted a bit by the other thread – I was recently reminded that the M88 is the live mic of choice for the great Dave Douglas, one of the finest jazz trumpet players of the modern age (or ever, really). If you want some ear candy, do a YT search for some of his live performances. I'm honestly surprised how well it works on trumpet, considering how well it works on saxophone, for which I usually prefer different gear!

Thank you, yes I will, great! Yes I knew M88TG's were good mics but the more I use it the more I really respect it. I had to get another one. Ppl say the old ones were better but I'm plenty happy with this new one. M201 honestly was a-freakin-mazing on that guy's snare. I changed its position to higher and angled down more and then it was really big in the PA, loved it, so different to the usual snare mics. I can work with that happily.

I would so love to get either of those SDC's but I honestly can't justify them right now... maybe I'll regret it later if supply runs out but I am plenty committed in the mic purchases department right now, by my measure anyway. But if I had a commercial use for them I'd place the order forthwith. I'm pretty sure I'll have them at some point... if I were able to choose one pair of SDC's I think it'd likely be between those and MC950's, and I'd probably lean more to the Austrians right now. But I haven't heard nearly enough of either

EDIT now that I use them regularly it's no wonder why the M88 and M201 have both been in production for 60 and 50 years, no wonder people keep buying them. It's like there's a trend across most modern mics to boosted highs one way or another, but I can't think of too many current designs that everyone will look for in 50 years.

(GRIN)

So if I do the jazz/swing band with 3-piece brass section, I've got some pretty nice mics for that, I could put the RE20 on trombone, the band leader plays trumpet and the 441 would be great on that (though he uses a clip-on condenser and a wireless belt-pack, hopefully he'd go for a 441 on a stand), but what for sax? I've only done them with the mics in the house kit, usually either SM57/58 (actually not bad for sax) and I've used an N/D408. Out of what I've got, the ND46's would be fine but I was disappointed with stage spill at that venue, e906 but "meh", ND44 might have good tone, I think probably M88, or how about M201? Too directional? I do have a Beta 56 which I rarely use, my guess is it's a bit bright for sax but one day I'll try it.

It's just that there's *another* MD441 available at a similar price right now, could I/should I talk myself into it... they'd be very immune to feedback from stage monitors but might the pattern be a bit tight and the volume drop away as soon as the player moves much?
When I get the school gigs there will be students playing all sorts of orchestral instruments that will be great on a 441 or others. I think I'm going to use my M88's a lot, and the RE20 not enough

I wasn't able to find these (Line Audio CM4) at all the usual places I order but then the one place I could get them turned out to be right here in my own city. Not what you call the cheapest price on Earth, but no shipping, I can just go pick them up.

So where would these excel, overheads, elsewhere? I could really use a decent pair of condensers for school and church choirs during "school concert season" and Xmas carols time each year. If they're standard cardioid they might be a little prone to feedback (not necessarily the end of the world), I think I'm after a nice supercardioid pair. I'll look into these anyway

If the bandleader has a clip-on mic he likes, just use that – for a live gig, they can be great. Here's a livestream gig where I used my AMT clip-on mic on my tenor instead of my normal go-tos and the recording came out just fine. A good-quality clip-on SDC that's designed for live wind instrument use can make for surprisingly good recordings, at least for "live gig" records, even if it's not what I'd pick for the studio.

...And in that case... OBVIOUSLY give the 441 to the saxophone, which is in all respects the superior instrument. (I'm joking. Mostly.)

M88 and M201 would also work great for any of those three horns. Don't overthink it too much! Those are ALL excellent-quality mics for wind instruments (441, RE20, M88, M201). I'd be happy with any of them, and so should any of the folks you're recording in a jazz sextet. You've got quality stuff and should fearlessly deploy it. Godspeed!

Thanks, and HECK YEAH!! The opportunities I've had for deploying these gems have all been a pleasure, I'm just anxious to keep getting them out there
EDIT his clip on though does cause some feedback. It's not bad but when it goes off it's usually at 8k, which is a mean squeal to get at high volume. They're a seriously good band, they currently have a tune in a national TV ad. The 'bonist fortunately is a full-on audio nut and would love to get the band using this stuff. They're all academy-trained jazz guys (eyeroll) but they can play alright

I did get some clips of M88 vs. MD441 over some percussion last night, I'll take both to work for a rock band tonight too. I'm not super confident how the 1st test went, I used them like mono O/H's over a timbales player and to me in the headphones the mic position mustn't have been the greatest, but we'll see. I'm busy all day preparing for another epic mining town commercial audio job but I'll hopefully get some time to crop those clips and upload them later

EDIT on the percussionist I tried lowering them later so they were looking down about 20 or 30 degrees over the percussion set. If you've seen Latin groups of this sort they generally have 2 timbales, a cymbal and some cowbells, maybe a clamshell block with a footpedal. That's what this was. The 2nd mic position seemed better to me but that was only in cans. My impression was the M88 was a small amount "rougher" in the high-mids, and true to the FR plots that MD441 was just pancake flat. Such a hype-less mic will take some getting used to when *everything* now on the market seems to want to try and enhance something or other. I've been loving some of my new ones because they're such a fresh start after all those typical presence-boosted dynamics we all know so well

Dude, that band is *cookin'*... fantastic. One moment that gave me a hot flush was at about 15:30, drummer starts hitting that ride cymbal, that's something I've always loved. Deedeeyah mentions a technique where he "undermikes" the ride with an M201 and I was wishing I'd done that at the album launch on Friday. The overheads did catch it but that drummer does the same dang-dang-dang on the bell I love so much and I would have liked to have pushed it for that section. I did another launch for that same band about 8 years ago when I still owned C414's (only modern XLS's but hey, good for live) and I didn't do overheads, just a ride mic, and it was just sitting there in the PA, beautiful.
Thanks, I really enjoyed what I saw of that clip, I'll watch some more when I'm not so hectic

I pick up my Line Audio CM4's tomorrow...
And it looks like my 2 most recent mic orders will arrive then too so I will add 2x RE520, another M88, some cheap suoercardioid boundary mic, plus a pair of MK-101's and an MKL-2500. That last one has almost zero practical live use but I just want one. I'm justifying it by doing some VO work occasionally and for later use recording soloists on location
EDIT oh yeah and a 635A too, I forgot. A good day for the mic kit tomorrow

The OP's intended mic locker is starting to look a lot similar to mine, which all packs down into these two small cases.

At least half of these mics have been scavenged used from the pages of Gearspace Classifieds, eBay and Reverb - if you're not in a hurry you'll get what you want at the right price eventually.

I think over the years I've posted WAVs on the Forum of every single one of these mics in action on at least something, even if it was just as part of my 8-mic egg shaker shootout!

I don't do SR - just remote recording.

Obviously the mics you choose are hugely dependent on material and space etc but I believe I can cover quite a bit with this selection without needing to rent extra.

That said you can never have too many M201s so I could do with a couple more of those, and I see a pair of KSM141s in my future at some stage. And I could probably do with a dedicated kick mic, and a pair of 414 B-ULS and...and... so it goes on!

My 'stay at home' team comprises: SM7B (too bulky), AKG D12 (too vintage) and the MKH415-T (too easy to hit with +48v by mistake!).

Note: My previous Beyer M160/M130 pair was sold so I'm waiting on a replacement M160 pair but the order is taking a while, hence the cutouts to ease my OCD separation anxiety! And of course my M130 was a go-to for violin so I'll need a replacement for that as well. Aawrgh!

---

EDIT: And there's my Beyer M160 pair back in its rightful place! It's a long story but for various reasons I have basically 'side-graded' from a previous M160/M130 rig to a pair of M160s and it's taken a while. But I'll leave the pic with the paper cut-outs up for now as everyone seemed to enjoy that!

James, that's a very respectably practical collection, I love it. (The M160 cutouts are a nice touch.) That's a kit that can achieve world-class recordings without a single piece of unobtanium in sight. If the musicians and room are good, at least...

In the case on the right, I spot room for a pair of Line Audio Omni1 to match your CMs! I know you want them.

Wow yes a lot of similarities. Are they SM27's in the 2nd box? Do you like those? I've used the KSM-27 a number of times esp. for choirs and I've seen them as overheads, they were nice. I do like LDC'S in some traditional SDC roles (traditional in a live setting anyway). I don't expect to buy my own though as they're available to me if I want them through the PA company I work for. And as I've posted I use my MK-102's a lot and like them, though they're unmodified.

We're definitely on the same page in mics, probably both prefer a certain sound (which after the 4 day job I just finished I can't quite find the adjectives for).
Do you take these out much for live work or is this more of a studio kit?
I'm only posting on my phone so I don't have a great display, what's the LDC below-left from the 441?
I'd forgotten how big 441's were til mine arrived and that SM81 is only a little bit smaller too.

Oh I saw your edit about no SR, right. I hope to take mine on mobile recording jobs myself.

M130 for violin eh? Ok that settles it, I'm getting one (or one pair). I've just been over at the Beyer thread talking myself into it, and I've known for a while I want M160's. So they must be KSM137's? How do they go, I gather they're pretty smooth and nice as SDC'S go?

Yes - after years of rotating loads of different mics in and out I've settled on this as my basic mobile package to cover most bases.

As you say, there's nothing here that's wildly innovative or fancy, or even vastly expensive, but all these particular mics have proved to be uber-reliable over the years, both in terms of sound and build quality, and I know exactly what to expect from all of them.

And this Forum has been a great help in choosing some of them!

I'm not expecting to be invited by Deutsche Grammophon to record the Berliner Philharmoniker at the Concertgebouw with this lot but I can probably cover most small jazz/trad ensembles, which is mostly what I do.
And I was wondering what could fit there...

Those are KSM32s. One of my best used scores ever as I got the pair for about €400 on eBay.

It's a Microtech Gefell M930. I've had this mic for over 20 years and I still wish I'd bought a pair of them!

Ah yes, a mic I'd love, but hard to find and buy now too rich for me. But kudos for using it!

Either a m130 or m160 can work on violin. It's usually a question of where the floor monitors are and whether you're dealing with a fly loft or low ceiling. Not all player are familiar with side-address mics and figure-eight patterns, so a bit of coaching may be required in the case of a m130.

I thought there was something strange about them. They remind me of the cardboard prop "laptops" they put on a desk at the furniture store

But aren't the MG 930's out of production? I guess you mean you can find them on the used market though. I'd love to but mics like that need to wait until I have enough recording work to pay for them without touching my wages

If the M930 is out of production, this is the first I've heard of it! I don't believe that to be the case. There seem to be plenty in stock in a variety of finishes at Vintage King, but I'm not sure how you would order one to Oz.

For someone who works primarily in live settings that demand tons of versatility, though, I think the Austrian 818 would make more sense. The M930 is a great-sounding mic but it's cardioid-only, and to cover other bases you'd need the other related models, M940 and M950, for hypercard and wide-card. And that would STILL be cheaper than buying the multipattern version, which for some reason is terrifyingly expensive!

Right, I haven't been following the Vintage King site, I tend to look for mics at some pretty well known retailers, and not being much in the studio scene I'm not up on that tier of microphones. I know them by reputation though. And I agree, the OC818's have to be the way to go for someone like me, a pair of those probably work to cost not that much more than a single example of any of that line of MG. A friend with a studio tried some out recently and I got to hear some of his work, they're a very classy mic for that money.

Maybe when my recording project gets going it'll do well and I'll need to work with a whole higher tier of mics and electronics but in SR land I'm already in a reasonable place. I'll get over this shipping thing, eventually, and find a way to get the ones I want without going apoplectic. I don't take frustration well any more... too much of it at once I reckon.

I've got a bit of a fixation on supercardioid presently, after some of the non-musical SR jobs I've had. Hyper-c is great but it's also just a tool for a specific job and I think what I need lands somewhere between that and cardioid for the work I do in the last 1/4 of the year. So, I'm pickup up those RE520's tomorrow and I think next I'll go for MC950 supercardioid SDC's. I really need two pairs for the work coming up, and whichever of those does better I'll get a 2nd pair, and the other can serve as spot mics. As for all my mics they have to do as many jobs as possible; the RE520's are of course decent vocal mics too, and I'm sure at times those supercardioid SDC's will be great for band gigs too.

Tomorrow is a good microphone day; I pick up my CM4's locally, and 2 orders have arrived so I get my RE520's, another M88 and a cheap half-supercardioid boundary mic; then there's a box of hardware with 2 LP Claws, 2 Shure A53M and 2x A56D mounts, oh and a 635a I threw in while I was ordering from there And not that I trust it but according to the local postal service my pair of MK-101's and an MKL-2500 are due here any time from tomorrow too.

I was warned it gets out of hand in a hurry when you start trying and buying mics and I brushed it off; now I get it, THIS is what happens. Now to just get those 3 pairs of Beyers and that's it. Oh except for the Austrian Audio and AT's and Earthworks, MG, and I've been meaning to check out some KSM-series... which should get me by until I start recording!
This is all fine by me because remember it's mostly paid for with what would have been cigarette money and what I make selling leads and looms; the amount I'm actually out-of-pocket after that over almost a year now since I started buying mics is really not much, and I'm more than happy with that amount for the pleasure, knowledge and experience it's bought me.
If I do another mining town gig I'll take a big bag of my instrument and DJ cables to sell, I could have *easily* shifted half a dozen or more this weekend and I did get firm orders for several 2-way looms. That'll make some payments on this stuff no problem

in live situations, cardioids for me mostly work fine but then, i don't mind using a couple of hyper- or supercardioids; this goes for dynamic and condenser mics.

i haven't been using a fixed set of mics but grab whatever i think is appropriate for the job - and then add some extras and/or some multipattern ldc's.

sometimes, it's not so much about the quality of the mics but the quantity: one can never have enough mics! ;-)

yep, that's it!

OK, but that's it!

OK but that's it, right?

well of course, recording means you get to start all over again!

Ahh, you understand perfectly

Everything I've bought has some kind of intended role of course. While several of my mics are "all-round" types for many things I still had specific uses in mind when I chose them. Now that I have a good set of options, I like the ability to match mics for each job the way you describe. I've been comparing different mics for the same roles and this has been very helpful to me for learning the specific performance of each type
I definitely have more than the minimum I need, but they are worth having

I'm a big believer in that for a good mic-up, the mics themselves are only part of it (albeit a big part). You have to have stable, reliable stands that don't sag, fall over etc, quality clips, and I'm now trying to make a habit of using shock mounts on all my condensers. I could write pages about mic leads, snakes, splitters, stage boxes etc but I'll just say they have to be good. It's the 2nd reason I started making my own, after selling them

Today was a good day for the mic kit; everything I had ordered recently except the MKL-2500 is now in my possession, and one of those orders had hardware. #kludgeaudio put me onto Shure A53M iso-mounts for 3/4" / 20mm condensers, I ordered 2 and I can see I'm going to get more. Got an LP Claw, I've known them for decades but I recently saw one hold the kick mic to a leg of the kick drum and I thought that was clever. But that would also be a good place for an iso-mount as plenty of shake will transmit through the Claw. The Shure A56D has to be my favourite rim mount, I now have 4. There are all sorts of bendy plastic ones like you get with e904's or the EV DRC2, they're all a bit "meh" really but they are quick and compact. I love the Gravity Pop Filter's arm, you can remove pieces from it or add more if you have 2 (which I do), and best of all the filter itself attaches with a standard 3/8" Euro mic thread. So I use it to mount a hats mic to the hi-hat stand, also works for snare as it can reach over from the base and is stable enough for most medium-weight dynamics.

Today I came up with another one for hats and snare bottom mics. I bought a K&M 23723 desk clamp and the Shure A26X 3" extension for lectern work. But I realised this would work perfectly to clamp to the stem of a snare or hi-hat stand with the extension sticking out sideways, with a clip or iso-mount for whatever mic you like. I've been sometimes miking hi-hats from underneath for hard-hitting drummers, though I prefer to have the hats between the mic and snare to reduce bleed. In fact the Claw would also work well here.

I tried the Gravity clamp to attach a mic mount to a guitar amp or cabinet directly but it was only good for lightweight mics. I actually prefer the look of a small tripod-base mic stand though. However, I do like a stage with no mic stands on the floor except for vocals, I think it's slick-looking for today's venues. I might get an Audix Cab Grabber and try that.

I use the Oktava SM-MSR stereo shock mount, I also use basic stereo bars like the Rode or K&M but for X-Y overheads I'd like to try the Shure A27M, that looks cool. I hear it's heavy though. Unfortunately they ran out of stock just hours before I placed my last order so I'll get it with a later one.

I am really loving having this expanded mic kit. I only really use the house mic kits now for vocal mics and then generally just for backing vocalists; most of the singers where I work tend to bring their own, and now I've got those RE520's, they're not perfect but they're not bad either. I've read good and bad reviews, apparently very dependent on what pre-amp you use them with. The singers liked them so far, but of course I didn't really buy them primarily for that task.

I think now I want at least one each of Beyer M130 and M160. Once again nobody can touch Thomann for the price they can offer. Sweetwater is next cheapest but they're not allowed to export Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic or some other brands to Australia due to agreements with the distributors. Thomann don't have M160's in stock yet but they have M130's; as I'm so into coincident-pair overheads for live use I want to try M-S using an M130 as the figure-8 element, then I have several options for the mid mic. I really like those CM4's and that's what I'd try first; I think a mid-side pair with an M130 and a CM4 would have to be a pretty nice combo for tonal quality anyway and then with the phase coherency of mid-side and the ability to vary the stereo picture so simply, or sum to mono, this has to be a good option. Then of course I could use a tighter patterned centre mic if I feel the need.

I would get a FET head for the ribbon mic as they take a lot of gain, I won't only be doing drums with them. I'm into figure-8 right now and it'd be nice between percussion pieces or on some brass instruments. So, this sounds like a good opportunity to get the SE DM2 TNT with switchable output Z, another feature I'd really like to explore.

The real benefit of having these mics is for the experience it gives me. Most local live sound mixers are totally stuck on the same old mics, with very little variation gig-to-gig. Some of these mics I've only been using for months or weeks and already that's given me experience that really improves my what I know about working with the available equipment. I mean, I'm no beginner, I've been full-time in sound for most of the last 32 years, but it's always wise to keep expanding what you're familiar with and what you can actually put to work, not just what you *think* you know but have never actually done. So I like the idea of being able to just switch the output Z of that FET amp and hearing exactly what effect it has on the same mic and source already in place. I've done just a little of this at the few opportunities I've had to try studio pre's, but there's almost no chance for this in SR.

I work with some decent tribute acts at some of these venues and they're good for me too. It's often the same musicians in a different guise, and they do a high-end type of gig, meticulously rehearsed and presented including costumes and wigs, even some props, appropriate instruments and all that, well promoted and attracting good crowds. So to do these gigs with almost ideal mics, DI's and hardware is a big advantage and it means my gig might be about the best in Perth that night, at least among local acts.

I'm always working on good PA's, there's Nexo Alpha), Nexo Geo, a double and sometimes triple EAW KF850 rig which has to be my favourite, an EV Manifold triple system which is fun too but a bit weird. They've all got good amps, processors and consoles so these are decent-sounding rigs. That's why IMO it's worth my using good mics, the PA's are up to the task.
So I'm spending a lot but I feel it's a good investment in myself. And remember, about 3/4 of my mic collection has been paid for with what I would have spend on smoking alone in just under a year, and most of the rest with profits from my custom cabling side-hustle. I'm basically in exactly the same financial position I would have been anyway but I have this nice mic kit now.

Oh yeah I just got my first valve mic yesterday. I'm probably never going to use it live but I might when I start mobile recording and I'm starting to get a little VO work of my own. This is the one mic I've bought purely for myself, an MKL-2500, just arrived yesterday

I'm sure you're already aware that because of the non-symmetrical way the transducer is mounted, like some other ribbons the freq response of the two sides of the M130 are slightly different - typically one side will have slightly less HF response than the other; something to pay attention to when setting up M/S and Blumlein arrays.

OK yes I'd heard that but wasn't really keeping it in mind, thanks for the tip. I would think it's close enough either side to get away with for my use on rock gigs where the source is asymmetrical anyway, who's to know, right? But for something more critical, say, a release-quality recording of a chamber ensemble in a heritage church (which is exactly what I'm aiming for later with my recording rig), it might not be the right mic. I do have the MK-101-8 bidirectional mic, not the highest of high-end but at least it's symmetrical, and I bought a reasonable selection of Oktava condensers in matched pairs before I started buying any moving-coils anyway; of what I've got I'd try 2 omni's in A-B 40 or 60, MK-012 cardioid or CM4 in ORTF, mid-side with the 101-8 and whatever, and I've got a pair of MK-105's. By that stage I hope to own something else suitable too.

Thanks again for the reminder, worth bearing in mind
What I've never found out is *how* different are the two sides, do you have any links to follow or can you tell me any more?

lol - we're talking about m/s as overheads for drum kits here for which a minor offset is entirely irrelevant!

[use snare hits as impulses and feed the decoded signals to a fft if you wanna know how bad the offset is; then listen again to find out if you can also hear any issues; chances are that you don't, certainly not by the time you add another signal, meaning when the entire drum kit gets played but of course by then the fft looks awful (and things get only worse with a whole band going).]

in other applications, distance does the trick to even out a potential offset...

...and it's worth noting that by comparison to m/s, offsets in a/b are downright 'criminal'!

___


if the offset bothers you nevertheless, there is a remedy, at least for recording/mixing at a later time: use schoeps mics and their plugin for decoding of double m/s to l/r which (besides decoding) does some digital trickery to compensate the difference in terms of frequency response.