I mean, man, you're in moving-coil heaven at this point, seems to me – of course, if you still know for certain you need more, by all means! But particularly if you're already happy with your Oktava SDCs, it does seem to me that the next big hole to fill is a pair of seriously versatile multipattern LDCs. A couple Austrian OC818s really does seem like the logical choice. The Neumann alternatives (TLM107, TLM170, U89) are all more expensive, and the Sennheiser alternative (MK8) is kind of an unknown quantity, I've never encountered one in the wild. Those 818s seem to be pretty road-worthy and just insanely versatile without even getting into the polar designer app.

If you were to grab a couple of those, I'd think you'd be set for a while! Until you start collecting Schoeps...

I agree very much. The only moving coils I could possible justify saying I *need* would be so I have 2 and not just one of a couple of mine (M88 and 441). There are other SDC's I'd like but I need to be smart and get things at the right time, when they're of commercial benefit to me. I've got MK-105's and they're nice, but they're not multi-pattern and not in the same class as OC818's. I've heard some very impressive recordings on those; I would so love to do a good string quartet with them (though I consider myself ready for that with a pair of matched mono MK-012 capsules for A-B as a starting point. That's one method I want to do simply to gain experience with it)

Before then though, the one pair of mics I know for sure I'm getting will be EV RE520's. I posted here about it before but oddly they are a great mic for stuff like school choirs and bands, large percussion sets or anything where you need to stereo-mic a whole stage, for live applications. Those jobs pay my bills and buy stuff like 818's. Sometimes I can buy what I want because I like them, other times I get stuff because I know I need it for certain jobs. I'm looking forward to those RE 520's anyway because they do sound like quite special mics. The guy who recommended them knows what he's talking about and does a lot of those jobs too. He says they're also his pick for live miking acoustic guitar (DI for monitors, mic for FOH) and quite a few others; they could become a fall-back mic for me if I'm having a hard time with others.

Thanks for your well-thought-out posts, that's sensible and smart and might help me avoid a potential mic frenzy That list a few posts ago has all valid enough choices in it, but it's a matter of being realistic about when/whether I really have applications for them. It could all change once I start regularly taking my portable recording rig out, and I'm starting sniff potential clients too, fingers crossed

EDIT I must admit, the gigs I've had lately have been *such* a pleasure with a kit of personally-chosen favourite dynamics, all the ones that suit the way I work and the sound I'm going for. I'm so blessed to earn a living doing what I love so much, and it's actually getting even better for me right now With my new favourite OH's over drums on my flown mic boom (no stands on the floor at all except for singers!) and all those new moving-coils, it's a real pleasure. It's honestly been worth buying these just for that

personally, I would never think of RE20's for overheads. Plus, if they ever come loose, and fall on the drummer, they could break bones.

Also: drums are loud. Why would you anticipate the need for FETheads on drum mics?

IMO, the 635a is an incredibly useful mic in the studio. How useful omnis are in your live application, I can't say for sure, but I am betting it will be less. In any case, the RE50 is basically just a 635a with built in shock mounting for hand-held operation. It also costs more. Just get the 635a.

just did a session with a guy who brought a bunch of his own 421s. He used them on all the toms and both guitar cabinets. It's his favorite mic. Me personally I am not a big fan, but I have liked it on sax. My point is not that you should get 421s, but that you will likely also end up having some favorite mics, and end up wanting a lot of those instead of two of every mic made. So maybe start small and add to your collection as you zero in on some faves.

wait, did I just hear the Voice of Reason piping up?

I like the older 868 as a "neutral" kick mic. Never tried the ND68, but since it is a newer version of a discontinued mic, it is probably not as good.

at the risk of making your list even longer, I would suggest the Audio Tecnica ATM-25. I like it for kick, but also shines on toms and cabinets. It too, is discontinued, but there are people on eBay that are selling them new from Japan.

the beyer m160n pair would make a great pair of overhead mics, I've never seen them used live, it's a great hi-hat mic too, I recon it would sound great even without the kick, snare and tom mics.

I would be looking at:
Line Audio CM4
Advanced Audio CM414

For ribbons, if you want to go cheap, look at Vinjet without transformers.
If you want a middle of road workhorse, AEA 84
If you want full ribbon color, nothing beats Coles 4038.
Stagger is the new kid on the block

For moving coils, HBMO 219

M88, RE20, SM7B, have to have at least one of them

The RE20-for-overheads thing came up on an EV thread. It's just something I would try if I had two, one guy there told me he'd done it and liked it. I can see how it'd be worth hearing, but it doesn't mean I'd keep doing it. I just wanna hear it. I already think I want a 2nd RE20; sometimes I want one on kick and bass amp, other times I have a couple of really good horn players. If I had them for these I could at least try the experiment over drums.

FET heads would be for M160's, I've never used these but I'm assuming that even on drums they could use a boost. Plus those particular heads have switchable output Z, something I want to try for my own education. In particular I want to *finally* hear an SM57 at its designed loading!! They were meant to plug into the 600 ohm input of a baby Shure 4-channel mixer from the 60's, a friend thinks he has one (kludgeaudio told me about this).

An omni dynamic is another one to teach myself and gain experience. I think there will be some great cases to use it, but limited. I've seen one used live on acoustic guitar, way up close (requiring a very understanding and cooperative guitarist) so the gain could be kept low and avoid feedback, yet without proximity effect. But I think it'll get used for recording more than live. As you say, no need to pay extra for unneeded features on the same design so I'd choose the 635a.

I used ATM25's years ago, they did a good job for us. A band I was working with weekly for about a year got their own, I forget the models but one was a kick mic and there was a similar smaller model we used for toms, they were good drums mics. One of these was the 25 and IIRC the other might have been a 21. And fair enough, like the MD421, it's not like they'd fill a big gap in my collection. If I came across some going cheap, sure, why not, but I would be choosing which mics to leave at home out of several that could do the job.

I did just order an old EV 644, the only used mic I've bought myself so far and I'm not on a vintage kick...yet I'd have got it just for the way it looks, I can picture Buck Rogers waving it at the Martian invaders. It's a dynamic shotgun, I've always wanted try a shotty for certain music applications. I was going to try renting a decent Sennheiser or similar, to mount up high on a stand and point straight down over snare drum like I remember seeing almost 30 years ago with one tour, a quirky, arty band where the drummer played many styles from light brushes to big whacks with heavy sticks. Isolation wasn't 100% of course but it was a fascinating technique, and I got Captain Dashing of the Space Patrol's mic nice and cheap (it's got to get to me from the USA yet though). If all it teaches me is that it doesn't really work, then fine, it still teaches me something. It'll still look great mounted on the wall with a War Of The Worlds poster.

So you can see that another reason I choose my mics is to give myself more experience with types and techniques I've wanted to try. In a thread for the MD441 someone linked a video using one as a lectern mic, which I never would have thought of; this is just the type of tip I love to know.

I recently saw them as room ambient mics with the British band Glass Animals at a venue of ~5000 people, that was a surprise. The tour guys told me they were asked to find something smooth and accurate. I haven't settled on a hi-hat mic yet, I just need to spend some time trying the mics I've got on it. Many have mentioned the M160 for guitar, so one way or another I know I could benefit from them. The price isn't bad either, it's a matter of waiting for stock.
My first impression when I packed them up on that concert was, wow they're light, like an empty plastic tube. That's the only time I know I've seen them live, though I know an engineer who has used them on his gigs

Would M130's be sonically similar despite being bidirectional? I know the two are often paired for mid-side, that could be fun. As I'm so happy with my X-Y overheads I'd like to try M-S... I'd intended to get the Radial M-S Decoder box for years, then when I finally decided to do it I found they'd already dropped out of production. I can easily set it up on consoles if they have the features but that little box would have been an elegant way to do it

Those CM4 look nifty and get great reviews, the problem seems to be finding them

It occurs to me, my moving-coil mics may overlap in terms of sonic character, but they are not all suited to all jobs. Eg the ND46 is great on toms, but when used on sax at the front of the stage, too much bleed. The M201 is wonderful for snare and certain guitar amps, but has the opposite problem, too narrow to be general-purpose. MD441, great on almost everything but so expensive I can only justify one! So there is a place to have these different mics.

it will take a while to get hold of any, but they are great mics, I have the older CM3 pair and for the price they are amazing.

I'm starting to get interested in MD431's too; the Mk. II seems to be a nice mic but of course ppl will tell you the old model was better; some will feel the opposite way. It certainly seems to be a very tight supercardioid pattern and some big names love them, even on snare and other instruments. They're so ugly they're cool too, but... switch.

Quite a few ppl tell me I need to get to know the Telefunken M80 but I know nothing about it. I'd welcome any input on these or any other mic that's worth keeping in the kit, primarily for live

yet another dynamic mic?

anyway, i'd rather suggest the t-funk m-81 than the m-80...

Yep, plenty of other types on the list for later. I'm trying to expand my knowledge and good dynamics are helpful for my live work. I'm starting to hire a few of mine out too.

M81 does look like an interesting mic and their site says it's got milder HF than an M80. If my other mics are being used elsewhere then I could have an opening for another good guitar/instrument alternative.
Right now with some good work on and while I'm selling a few leads, I don't mind risking the price of a new type to try out if they seem worth it. If I don't use them I can sell them, I've done that too
EDIT - they come with a cable with the old-model Neutrik 90-degree XLR! They were an expensive plug, I made a few leads with those for myself. Not that I'd buy the mic for that reason but that's different. I don't need some company's yet-another-drums-dynamic-mic but if it's nice on guitar I'd consider it. I'm not going to rush out and buy one now though

this is an unparralleled euphemism - it's more that the m-80 makes any voice, no matter how dull, hiss like hell! under 'normal' conditions/with most any singer, you cannot use it without heavy tweaking of a (multiband) de-esser...

both come with a bulky/crappy mic clamp btw - someone pls tell which replacement they've found to work well!

I mostly use Shure A56 rim mounts now, all those plastic ones annoy me, except the ones on the e904 (and they're only good for standard rims. These might work for an M81). The A56 is a bit bulky but it's stable, adjustable and strong, and I can get any position I need. It's intended for the Beta 56 (hence A56) but the only way I like it with those is upside down on the bottom rim... at least you CAN use it upside down if you want, to alter the mic height. You can raise or lower the arm, or invert the base but keep the arm upright or vice-versa, and rotate it 60 degrees at a time. For the ND46 I like it on an A56 lifted about 75 to 100mm up on floor tom and aimed for the centre, it will have a little too much stick strike in the soundcheck but I find it's OK when they play, and I take a little 3 to 5k out. One guy recently used mine and mounted the ND46 on its side in the A56, for an in-between height, I liked that. Actually once the A56 is mounted on a drum, most of the bulk is hidden below the rim anyway, you just see the arm.

On rack tom I like it closer so I use the DRC2 mount that comes with the ND44, and I bought a couple of these for the 46's. They're no worse than anyone else's clip-on mounts, better than some, and they have a ring you can get your finger through to help attach and detach. But, they only have the EV mic clip, I wish they just had a thread to take any clip

OK forget the M80. If someone tells me they love the M81 on toms snare and guitar I'd consider it but it doesn't sound like something I need

i assume you're referring to the shory versions of the m-80/m-81? cannot comment on them as i haven't ever used them and i haven't been using my 'normal' versions on anything else than vocals - their output level is amazing though...

Right, yes that's all I saw on the Telefunken site and at Thomann. The M80 I've only seen as a hand-held. High output is nice but with the consoles I'm using, not so important. If anything I might pad them down because currently on the A&H I'm using I try to keep the channels in the green LED's, others seem to like them orange and red. I've started using y-leads to split vox to separate FOH and monitor channels so I can have more gain for monitors, so I don't have to set the monitor GEQ gains above zero where they get noisy. So a high output mic could be good for that but the desk can do it fine. Split channels are an old technique but it can be handy. I dislike y-leads but since I bought 2-way cable I don't have to have 2 leads sticking out of one XLR boot. I believe the direct out jacks on that desk are pre-fader so tonight I'm trying TRS patch leads to split them that way instead (though the 2nd channel still depends on the gain setting of the 1st)

EDIT so there's a full-length version of the M81 and you use it for vocals?

while using different gain settings for foh and monitors can be useful, level isn't just 'voltage on the fader': there can be differences in terms of sound, depending on how hard you hit the preamp with a mic; rather obvious with tube preamps...

yep - and i like it!

Yes I get that, I see no benefit to what happens to those pre-amps in that console if I run them hard, and I'm going for consistency in how I operate so I can notice the difference when I change it. Tube pre's, that's how you get the character you want from it but this average quality solid-state stuff I prefer to stay out of the high gain end of it, I don't think it really benefits me. But, I'll take my recorder along more often so I can always record and compare when I get home

I've yet to see a single Telefunken here in Perth, I've seen them advertised but I'd like to hear one before I commit to buying
EDIT there's some cross-over between Beyer and TF though I believe, I better do some reading

OK, some of the Beyers there are MC81, is this the same mic? I've read that some TF's are re-badged Beyers or vice-versa but I don't know much about this

these are:

• gefell md-100 shorty
• beyer m-500
• beyer v-90r
• t-fun m-80
• t-fun m-81
• 2x beyer mce-81

beyer did some oem stuff but i doubt t-fun just 're-badged' them...

Do you use those "universal" M81's on drums or instruments at all, or only on vocals? I'm always interested in mics that can do a good job in multiple roles.

I'm looking for alternative mics for guitar amps; I bought e906's but I'm starting to find them a little thin. Beta 56 and b57, OK for snare but for guitar I'm looking for something a little richer. I tried my MK-105 LDC last night, it's great for jazz and clean tones and OK for overdrive but at gigs I really need to close mic it to limit bleed, and then it gets too much low mids.

Of course I've used SM57's for many years and they're fine, but I hear they were designed for a 600 ohm load all those years ago with a particular Shure mini-mixer (a friend owns one, not working). The SE DM2 TNT has switchable Z but not the setting I want. I've been told you can cheat and install resistors inside an XLR, I can easily make that up but do I just use resistors with a DC resistance of 600 ohm? No big deal, I just want to hear a 57 in its designed load; someone said connected to today's higher-Z consoles they sound "spitty".

Audio Technica AE2300 for guitar? I just saw a video where a very "industry" sorta guy (who I didn't know) at NAMM said the AE2500 was his go-to guitar mic; that's the dual-element condenser and dynamic, right? It's a bit more expensive than most standard guitar mics (like, triple) but if it's good, I'll check it out.
Anyone tried these? I do need to see if there are good guitar mics worth having, better than those in my current mic kit

m-88: almost never on vocals; mainly on drums/percussion instruments, bass cabinet, leslie low (and on some rare occasions on horns or maybe on a guitar amp) - i could say the same on half a dozen of other mics though!

ae-2500: sometimes on trumpet/fluegelhorn, rarely on sax, more often on kick or bass cabinet and quite regularly as 'solo mic' with big bands!

(i'm rarely using condensers on guitar combos/stacks live, except on very large stages/outdoors...)


___


imo hypercardioids aren't 'universal' mics as pattern selection - at least to me - ALWAYS depends on the situation; hypercardioid mostly isn't my first choice but of course any pattern comes with a price...

Well "universal" is just the name on the Thomann site of the long-handle M81, as opposed to the M81-SH which I guess is for SHort.

Yes absolutely the pattern of the mic is *one* of the factors in selecting which mic for which situation, that's not news. I've been buying some mics I've been interested in for a while, now that I finally have the opportunity, and those selections are not just "this mic should sound good on that source" but also means its pattern, the venues I expect to use it in, or the sonic character WITH that pattern, if I'm explaining myself properly. And other factors too. Sometimes mics become popular for certain roles because all those characteristics prove to be a success in those roles. Right now I have access to good cardioid vocal mics, and I want a couple of supercardioids that I'm going to use elsewhere, but might be useful on vocals too. But they're definitely not going to be the vocal mics I use all the time; I think they'll be handy for certain situations that arise often enough for me. If I only needed them once a year, I wouldn't buy my own.

The factors in my decision might be different for other people (I HOPE they are, they should be considering their own situation). I happen to think it's not worth buying certain mics for their characteristics unless they're cost-effective, too, but other people might have sponsor/company/govt money available and can make different decisions. Just one more part of that "certain situations" equation

I got to use my mics on a really great blues-rock 3 piece I've known for many years last night and it was superb. That band was always going to be good and I was really looking forward to it, but then having just the right mics of my own preference was another big advantage. I had a great gig.

That's the first time I tried an RE20 on kick at a live show; the drummer had a very Bonham-esque 26" kick, a beast, and the RE20 worked so well on it. There was an opening act with a different kit and it was great on his kick drum too, I'm a fan now. I thought I would use an M88 but he saw the RE20 and asked for it; that drummer knows more than enough audio to mic up his own kit (and often does, live and recorded) and I was hoping he'd go for it. M201 on his snare was a beast, I like that thing. I was positioning them quite flat / parallel to the skin with other players but on his fabulous snare it was better to raise it up a little and point roughly to the centre. ND46's on toms, still love em. He had wooden hoops that most plastic rim mounts won't fit so I used my trusty Shure A56D's, great mounts. And my trademark X-Y MK-102's for overheads, once again these did a great job and I got a lot of positive comments.

That left the M88 free and I tried it on guitar, straight away it was obviously the way to go. What a truly versatile mic. He was playing some 2 x 12" cabinet, I put an e906 on the top speaker and M88 on the bottom, the M88 out-classed the e906 right away.
Bass player recently got an SVT VR classic from 2004 and barely used, absolutely as new, it's a gem. I've always liked those amps. This version has an XLR direct out, and for once it's not at +4 blowing the mic inputs away when you put a lead in it. On those amps and some Galien-Krueger I'm always happy to use the direct out, on many others they're not so great. I DI'd his bass too, he has some pedals so it came after those. Good sound but I just liked it better out of the direct out. I didn't use a cabinet mic; I'll take an old Ampeg valve out any day.

It also made showed me it's finally time to look for an SM58 alternative. They're fine for most gigs but the demands were just a little higher here. I've tried so many and I know plenty to choose from, I just need to make a decision. As those RE520's are already on the way, I'll try them out, but I bought them for another purpose. I think they might do OK

I use my mic kit all the time on my other gigs but this was something special. Getting to mix that band at that venue was already going to be a big event but to do it with my personal choice of mics, all of them fairly new and in great shape, really enhanced the gig, what a pleasure to mix. Starting with a well-chosen set means you're already very close to a great sound before you consider any processing, then it's just minor enhancement. Getting to try my RE20 on that bass drum (it almost looks like a marching-band drum) with that drummer was a dream come true; his other drums with my mics on them were like that too, his snare with an M201 on it was incredible. What a night

Anyone tried an Austrian Audio OD5? With swiveling head a little like an ND46. That's the one they're selling as a mic for amps, but I haven't come across any accounts yet. All the reports of their condensers are excellent so I'm hopeful they can do a good moving-coil too (not that I currently have a shortage...).

It's an active dynamic needing phantom power, so I take it that means it's a moving-coil element with on-board processing; I guess an active EQ or possibly phase correction that the designers want engaged all the time. There was a time when we might have called that cheating but these days any voodoo goes. It could be like some speaker processors where they use high-power amps to enhance the response of the speaker beyond what the enclosure alone could do for it.

I am still looking for a great guitar amp dynamic for live use; I've used all the standards, M88 on guitar did a great job but I'm always open to anything new if it's worth hearing. They also do a similar-looking condenser called an OC7 they sell as an acoustic guitar mic

I'm not so sure about this trend where mic's are *designed* for certain instruments and you fill your locker with kick mics, guitar mics, Patagonian nose-flute mics, Formosan chong chai mics and so on. SM57's weren't designed to be snare and guitar mics, they were general-purpose, and they're not a bad lectern mic either. But nowadays it seems all the new releases have a designed role. If they released the MD441 now the reviews would say, "who do Sennheiser think they are, trying to tell us one mic suits lots of stuff? Don't be so lazy, finish tailoring it to something! So what is it, a brass mic, jazz vocal mic or what?" There are hand-held vocal mics for soft vocals, metal singers, male singers, female singers... do they not just try to design the best mic they can any more without tailoring them to P. M de Ville Hetherington-Postlethwaite, neo-industrial grindcore backing vocalist's small-venue-only gigs?

Someone mentioned the old ATM 25, now out of production but apparently still around at some places in Japan, I'll look into that. I did like this as a kick mic many moons ago. And I think we had ATM 21's on toms and/snare. From memory there was also an ATM23

So is this an update of the ATM 23? Reviews have ppl who like it on toms, snare and guitar, even kick (though it isn't shaped so you'd just have to apply the usual EQ). This might be another interesting all-rounder, but I'm really looking for a guitar mic (previous post notwithstanding )

Then there's the AE2300, this whole AE-series is new to me but some rave about it. Any thoughts?

neumann kms104 is very good for a lead vocal microphone live, I was impressed with it, even in a small poor sounding venue it sounded good.

THey and the KMS105 sound terrific but for me I've found them to be a real feedback risk unless the singer is using IEM's at one venue in particular. That's probably because those wedge monitors have a "slipper" over them, a 2nd form-fitting case and grill to protect them but it messes up the dispersion of the horn. But yes a sweet sounding mic, the singers love them