Hi Everyone,

So I've been doing a lot of reading about monitor controllers and so I did a test with my M-Patch 2 to see if it was screwing with the signal at all...

I have been considering getting something along the lines of the D-Box or a Goldpoint, but can you tell the difference between these tracks? Is the M-Patch actually messing the signal up that badly that I should spend 5-10X the price on something 'better'?

There are two files....Track A and Track B. One has the M-Patch in the signal path, the other doesn't. Simple as that. They were both recorded as a DA-AD loop through my Lynx Aurora with nothing else in the signal path using Mogami cables.

Post your opinion on the poll and I'll tell which is which in a few days.

The other point of this post - listen to the original track file compared to both the A/B files. The quality loss of the audio is huge! I was considering upgrading to the D-BOX, but after I heard how much quality that is lost going through an extra DA-AD Loop, I don't think it would be worth using the summing in the D-BOX...and that means your essentially paying $1400ish for a volume knob!

***** CORRECTION - The poll should state "Which track HAS the M-Patch 2 in the signal path"?

TRACK C is in post #75....It has the M-patch 2 at 50% and is meant for null tests with when comparing it to Track A or Track B
Thanks!

RESULTS!

TRACK A = no M-Patch
TRACK B = M- Patch with Knob at 100%

Spencer

Why do you need to print your mixes through your monitor controller?

-Ben B

So we can hear a difference between monitor controllers. The OP is asking whether or not the cheaper monitor controller actually degrades the sound of his monitors.

Exactly....the point is to see if it's really worth spending a lot of money on a 'high quality' monitor controller.

I don't know anything about the M-Patch, so I won't vote. But I will tell you what I hear. Listening through Digidesign RM2's, BeyerDynamic DT770's, and Sennhieser HD280's,

The Original file sounds identical to Track A..

Track B sounds as if there are slightly more highs (5K and up) and sounds "sloppier" in the low mids. The voice lows and the kick don't sound like individual elements as much.

Track A sounds tighter than Track B. The vocals and the kick are distinct and separate.

My ears like Track A better than Track B.

Ah, that makes sense.

-Ben B

two votes so far...keep em coming!

i did a test..bored today

i imported al 3 files..time aligned a&b as a group to original..they were aligned as well as i could see to each other to the bit and i didn't want to induce another variable

i took the original material ..and bussed it with A and then with B [both phase inverted] and recorded each instance to seperate tracks.. when i took those 2 tracks and inverted 1 ..THEY NULLED .. A& B are exactly the same in reference to themselves

they differ from the original on top end info and some very very 400 500hz stuff

yes, they are time aligned and A/B are decibel matched down to .1 dB (not sure if they match the original dB level, sorry).

Interesting test!....but the question still remains, can you tell the difference just by straight A/B ing them? Basically is the audio degration from the M-Patch so bad that you can hear it without having to do any tests? would it be worth spending another $1000 to fix this in your opinion? (if there is any difference in quality).

no a& B are time aligned to themselves they are both off equally from the original..anyting other than the test i did is BS..objective trumps subjective..my only subjectification was my thought on the difference between the 2 and the original..i don't have time or want to analyze

Yea sorry, they arn't time aligned to the original, but that shouldn't matter as you should only be A/B ing tracks A and B.

uhh yeah...now phase inver 1 of the 2 [a or b] and THEY NULL!!! FULLY!

this reinforces my issue with the BTD RTD bs in another thread ...SCIENCE[it's repeatable and understandable] ..it ain't MAGIC!

really?....mine didn't null completely....if you turn up the volume really loud, you can still hear the tracks...

I HAVE FULL NULL from the files you sent

by just taking A &B and inverting OR taking the sum of A and the original inverted and B and the sum of the original inverted and inverting the result

either you have given corrupt info or your time aligning when you do this yourself is OFF

i can send you the PT files if you like

I'm not sure this is the point of the OP's thread. I understand you want an absolute answer, and we don't need an argument about subjective and objective, but I'm pretty sure he just wants to know if other "ears" can hear a difference through their set of monitoring conditions.

I'm not saying that I am right or wrong, but I did hear a small difference between A and B. The question that needs to be answered is, is the money well spent for such a small, or no difference, and NOT whether your test is better than my ears

this means you are ********..Do You Know The Way To San Jose ?hehheh

Yes, this was the original point of my post since I didn't get complete null when I inverted the phase on one of the tracks.

But this being said...Sigma, I'm using Cubase 5, and it looks like your using Pro Tools...I wonder why the null test would be different for different programs? I'm sure my files are time aligned....and they do ALMOST Null...but if i crank up the volume then I still hear the file...(and I mean CRANK the volume).

Oh, my bad dude, I forgot GOD changed his name to Sigma. I won't ever question you again

I thought this post was asking us to LISTEN. I'll take my opinions elsewhere

For what it's worth, I ran them through Har-Bal, and overlaid the graphs. They appear identical, but that's graphic representation. The analysis reports:

..............Average ......Peak...
Original -14.02db ~~-2.89db
Track A -14.31db ~~-3.17db
Track B -14.31db ~~-3.17db

Listening to them, I think the original is clearest, and A has slightly more sizzle than B. So B seems closest to the original.

I see you added the smiley's after I responded. I guess you were kidding about the small yellow school bus???

fundamentalist god believers make magic the word

i ADHERE TO science

your ears are subjective... the test i did with the files i was given put into the program i use SPIT OUT an UNDENIABLE TRUISM

are you sure you are doing your test in a bit accurate system

I am fairly sure...

If you did hear a difference and the files nulled then either the difference was just in your head or the files weren't volume matched.

Science is much more reliable than human opinion

i could tell the diff within seconds.

track b sounds like shit.

over compressed, almost distorting, highs to the point of absurdity.

the m patch is clearly on b.

somtimes, if not always, its best to just leave well enough alone my brother.

if the m patch is on track a and im wrong, i will go buy an m patch tomorow.

i dont get this...is anyone even listening to these tracks???? forget about the null etc...crap!

LISTEN!
if you think b sounds better than a, your outta ur mind!

i trust my ears before i trust gear any day of the week.

Sure, next step is to play the same file two times and "clearly" hear a difference

After listening to it through my AKG 271's I will say;

Track A "feels" richer, slightly brighter, slightly crisper and more present. B sounds like there might be a very slight blanket or dulling on the sound. SLIGHT. It may also be my mind playing tricks.

But know this, they both sound fantastic, and any competent mixer would be able to work with the MPatch in the signal chain. Do I think that the controller is affecting the sound? Yes. Think. Maybe. But would my mixes suffer by having it in the chain? I highly doubt that. The slight dulling you may hear is only relative to the slightly less dull track A. That does not mean track B is dull, actually it's far from it.

People get too caught up in the measuring and quantifying of these things. The track itself sounds wonderful and that is due to many things taking place before it hits the D/A and the MPatch. If one controller is twice the cost and 5% better, I'm going to go with the cheaper one, and ideally the one that has the features I want. Unless the device is degrading my sound in a very serious fashion I'm sure I'll be able to listen through it.

The only reason I wouldn't use an M-Patch is I would prefer something rack mounted.

No null here, moving by just one sample brings it right up. Tried level adjusting by 0.01dB steps both up and down but there's always something there.

+1.

Hmm, testing a monitor controller to me is more than it's static behaviour. What about the correct attenuation law, especially at highest or lowest settings? is stereo balance Ok at all settings?