As I'm listening to real music artists like Junie Morrison's solo album on youtube





I wonder how come modern r&b music is devoid of the humanistic qualities that makes music feel naturally good?

Groove is of course essential, but listening to bands like Slave





I hear no two bars are exactly alike, there is always some kind of musical or timing change in one or two of the instruments.

Lakeside's arrangements are also incredible!





I listen to these guys and you can instantly feel the energy and love they are putting into their music. I don't hear that in new r&b songs on corporate radio stations. Is everyone so locked into the computer's grid that they forgot how to arrange and perform music that grooves?

to be honest... these artists have some type of command of an "actual" instrument i.e. piano, drums, bass, etc, etc, etc... notice... there are no "one finger" melodies in those tunes... another point... you have a group of individuals making the music... and not just one individual... i.e. in a group the members "groove" off each other... the list goes on and on... those days are long gone... think about it... to play an instrument... you would have to play/practice for years... with today's technology... an individual could be making music in months...

"Is everyone so locked into the computer's grid that they forgot how to arrange and perform music that grooves?"

Yes R&B is rhythm and blues. There isn't a genre called rhythm, but there is a genre that defined many genres called Blues. By the very nature Blues is not syncopated due to the emotional thoughts and contemplation that happens from the heart or soul then to the brain. The very early blues players didn't use drums but just their voice and or guitar. There is allot of hesitation because many sang "off the cuff", what they felt at the moment.

When using grid locked beats your brain is then synced to left logical, mathematical side of the brain instead of the right more emotional side of the brain. Part of RnB roots is also from swing jazz that plays instruments behind the beat. Swing creates a type of hesitation that in part I guess simulates blues impromptu. Possibly the only sole purpose that RnB can only be heard that sounds like what we want it to be (humanized by players or programmed to sound like) is the very origins that we know how it should sound.

Arrangemnets..? If we are talking about arrangements in the sense of Sebesky and Mancinni etc I don't think the computer grid should influence this. It more relates to instrument ranges and playing techniques (plus more).

Perform grooves…My opinion is that playing an instrument would be beneficial for a lot of 'beat makers'. No necessarily to a high degree of proficiency but at least to understand some concepts of what really goes on when one plays an instrument…and to take it further , actually play with others and then that may give some an idea of what it really means to play in a groove with other and to focus on the rhythm.

I think it has nothing to do with computers, grids, or hardware.
Its just that the mainstream "R&B" artists are too busy doing popish R&B tracks looking for a crossover nowdays than being soulful.
Not to mention that most of these new folks can barely sing better than 1/2 their audience, so they never can get too soulful on the mic while they're struggling through recording.

I think it's called chasing the mighty dollar. There is literally a point somewhere around 2006-8 onwards in not only R&B but also in Hip Hop, where the soulful feel and sound dropped out of the music almost completely and apparently became 'unpopular'. It's the same time that people say the Neptunes fell off, Just Blaze wasn't as popular, Dre's productions started dying up, Timberland had been quiet for a bit. It's right before the time when Timberland dropped Sexy Back with Justin and triggered off the whole EDM phenom in R&B. For whatever reason you all of a sudden couldn't cross over to mainstream with a typical soulful and funky R&B or Hip Hop sound... Personally I smell a media industry conspiracy, as at just around that point everyone was starting to say Hip Hop and R&B was the new pop.... and just think of that whole Neptunes, Timberland, Dre, Just Blaze and Swiss Beats error... You couldn't go five minutes without hearing one of their beats on mainstream. I think the industry got scared of the revolution, and all the black millionaires that the period was creating.

I remember hearing Tim on a interview over in the UK with Hip Hop Radio One DJ Tim Westwood, and he was going on about how the music industry wasn't giving him his props, and that he was about to come back and stun the whole game with something new.... it took a few months and then Sexy Back came out and I was like what? What's this? Where's this going?

Next thing it was Black Eye Peas, Neo, Rhianna, Pitbull, Akon, Usher, Chris Brown....... All of a sudden R&B stars were chasing EDM producers to get beats for their singles. At the same time Hip Hop went over to the South Trap sound and never came back.

The thing is although I think the media (mainly the rock and pop industry) tried to send black music back to the ghetto and out of the pop charts, the fact that all these artists switched up and adopted a euro centric genre means that the millionaires are still coming thick and fast and the influence is back on mainstream radio. Also think about it, the sound palette of Trap is basically the same as EDM, loud bright and synth driven, except more bass but still without soul.

Actually, it's pretty shocking that there are so little artists out that have a soulful vibe. There is absolutely no shortage of talent in this area, trust me there. It's actually quite irritating to me and there is no explanation, IMO, why at least some are not coming out. How hard is it to market an attractive woman/man who can sing well and is well versed in performing. It makes very little sense to me.

Because it is no longer "Rhythm & Blues"..... Call it "Rhythm and Sex", or "Electronic Sex Music", or "Melodic Hiphop", or "Sexual/Sensual Hiphop"......

Basically the constants are; singing lyrics about sex over an electronic hiphop beat....period. There is certainly nothing "Blues" in today's mainstream "R&B".

As already stated.

1) Synergy of Musicians. One guy may be awesome on the keyboards but there's nothing to compare when there's a room full of musicians bouncing ideas on eachother. When a drummer is competing with the guitarist, or the bass player against the keyboard, it's going to make the song stand taller, and likely spark thoughts for a new song as well.

2) Radio formula. Go to far off the farm and your in trouble. In fact there may be no trouble at all, because you probably won't get the financial backing and promo you need to begin with.

3) Computer-Itis. Too much perfection. No accidental keys or strings. No drummer speeding and slowing the groove or bass player freestyling. Grid Lock (literally), auto tune, etc....

4) Deep thinking writers. As a society we don't read like we used to back in the 50s 60s 70s. With less reading comes less writing. It's easy to sing melodies and make "happy birthday" sound sexy but to provoke thoughts in another person is an art form, ie Marvin Gaye "What's Going On", Jill Scott "Gettin In The Way", Isaac Hayes, Lauryn Hill "Everything is Everything" Curtis Mayfield etc......

5) Entertainment Buisness. To sell the look, appeal, and dances of an artist in today's tablet, smartphone, laptop - video centric era, is more profitable than simply buying a record based on who sings the best and has the best material.

I think they kill it overseas with this "alternative R&B" or whatever you want to call it. Maybe i just got a soft spot for White girls doing urban things but it connects emotionally. Yes its new age soulful lyrics over Electronic instrumentation but it resonates the same for me (im 26) as Diana Ross did for my mom.

If you want that Blues aspect, Google Willis Earl Beal. Dude is Crazy Talented, and just Crazy

Its out there, u just gotta dig for it... try listening to some of the "East Village Radio" stations on ur iphone app.

There is a bunch of dope r&b.

Eric Bellinger, Sevyn Streeter, TGT, Jazmine Sullivan and Elle Varner to name a few.

Sonically it wont sound like the golden era. Nor should it!

The labels seem to only want the Pop sounds (regarding the marketability for sales and generating money) to be released. Plus the genuine understanding amongst artist's and musicians only seems pretentious in a way that its become self absorbed and that soul connection in the songs of the past have a genuine vibe amongst musicians in the pre production stages.

The human connection of music has been starting to show serious signs of lacking since 2007 and only getting worse as time goes on. Its become a 'me' generation oppose a 'we' generation and this has been shown within the massive lack of soul in R&b music.

Simple: music creation is driven by economic reasons more than artistic ones. That single fact explains so much of the reasoning already discussed here, from non-human performances to mediocre arrangements to the business of radio.

I worked with Eric B on 3 records in 2012, he's a total pro with great talent, pretty laid back but very kool person. Great to see him doing his thing with his first album.

Thats interesting. How was working with him? I know he produces his own vocals now.

Really cheap productions!

I'm very familiar with both Maxwell and Robert Glasper.

RG is one of my very favorite keyboardists today.

He's super fast, he told me it was because he recorded himself for years, and by his in depth recording knowledge , I believe him. Very down to earth guy just doing what he loves.

Workflow wise he picks his track, plays the track until he get's an idea, usually very fast, then hits the booth. He writes in his head, and records very, very, very fast. He's an Aries and therefore even when you keep up with him, you're behind him, lol.

I would also add that when hip hop producers started migrating to R&B some of them just don't know music, besides the groove part of classic R&B, those guys used real chords, there is a long history of jazz musicians working in the R&B genre.

I agree Musiclab, but the best session musicians in RnB these days come from church. The Jazz guys left RnB long ago.

I personally believe RnB has suffered because mainstream music does not want that much deep emotion. The money is not there now unless you do PopnB.Great RnB is out there, but you'll have to search for it.

Did anyone hear new album by Babyface and Toni Braxton? There are few really good songs. Simple arrangements, but in terms of songwriting really effective, simple, and emotional. And woah, theres audible reverb in the mix ))

I dint listen whole album but new release by Robert Glasper titled Experiment-Black Radio 2 is good it seems.

The loss of good paying live gigs and advertising session work over the past thirty years has diverted a lot of the most talented young musicians to law and medical school. It's like what the NFL would be like if high school and college football went away. Losing so much of the talent pool combined with no budgets is not a recepie for great music.

This gets fixed in high school and church where kids can get inspired.

the problem with church is while some of these guys are great, quite few don't actually know music, they see say a min7b5 chord and they don't know what it is, but if you spell out the chord they totally know how to play it, I've seen this MANY times with church guys, it's a little weird.

It's just oral tradition music rather than 19th century European arm-waver music. Arguably you can't really write music accurately anyway so I have no problem with oral tradition musicians.

well when you're on a gig with a keyboard player who is a church musician and you put a chart in front of him and he has NO IDEA of what he's looking at then you can tell me about not having a problem with oral tradition musicians.

Min7b5 is a common chord

We know music theory but choose to play by the number system.

Since African American slaves were not allow to read they developed a number system to learn to play music.

Quite a few church musicians know music theory. Almost all do.

You don't have to read music to know theory.

Ask Stevie Wonder.

There's actually a lot of great soul musicians today; you just gotta find them yourself, as the radio no longer caters to that genre. Youtube is the new radio as far as I'm concerned, in terms of where to go to find new music/artists.

Check these guys out

OK so you know music, yes it is a common chord, and of course you don't have to read to know music, but I've been in a few different states where I've seen the same thing happen, in both cases they both could play, but really didn't know any of the names or numbers but if I showed them the notes they had they're own, description and it wasn't numbers if it was, that it would have been easy.