I support every word you wrote MogwaiBoy,

But even more I would like that all developers finally offer some options to set up oversampling quality.

For brainworx/pa and their ignorance towards this topic there will probably no other solution than doing it manually. Which is a pity, I like their emulations a lot otherwise.

PSP smartly made their OS switchable in the new Saturator, but they're always balancing out their no latency versus OS. So being able to use Infinistrip with OS is a nice option. If I were in 96K I wouldn't think twice about it, but in 48K it's great to be able to do this. And I also was wondering why a DAW couldn't do OS natively. Even a simple 2x at render wouldn't really crash anything. Maybe if you're at 192K project you'd cause a crash with a plugin that's already doing 4x internally.

Did you figure out a crashing scheme ?
Some plugins dont' support oversampling, so it may be a plugin issue, and not a DDMF one.
I know as a fact that Soundtoys plugins are crashing above 176kHz, and even below they have some issues with Metaplugin (a pity for me, because my main intented use was to upsample Decapitator and Devil Loc). Decapitator for exemple doesn't like offline oversampling and sometimes produces a nasty buzz instead of working properly...

No I haven't. But as I remember it was not a specific set of plugins.

In my experience DDMF is not that engaged with fixing problem, so I had no desire to investigate.

For me in Cubase Pro 11 metaplugin will crash if I try to delete a plugin inside of it while the DAW is playing back. Sometimes it crashes deleting a plugin if I don't disconnect it first. It doesn't do it with all plugins all of the time either. Since I work in 48K I do like to at least do 2x OS on render for most things, so it's rarely an OS issue that crashes the DAW.

It's not DDMF's fault that some plugins can't handle high samplerates. When Metaplugin crashes it is usually annoyingly catastrophic though (takes the DAW down with it, or freezes and requires you to manually shut the DAW down, potentially messing with your session auto-save).

DDMF are fixing Plugindoctor with updates all the time. I imagine Metaplugin is a pretty complex beast to make fully stable with all plugins on all platforms and DAWs.

There's a few design choices they could do too... the first time I instantiated a plugin I couldn't figure out which ones were Left and Right inputs/outputs to connect - there were just a bunch of lines poking out everywhere. I think they could atleast indicate the main Left/Right stereo ins and outs.

Anyone know if there's a way that you can automate plugins that typically can't be automated?

This is such a powerful sandbox, I wonder if there's a magic trick.

Can you give an example? I'm not sure what you mean by can't usually be automated?

I use Metaplugin since some time now, I hope there will be a higher quality alternative or update of Metaplugin in the future, but currently it seems like the only good way to oversample plugins. I sorry to say it, but the software feels rather like an alpha version in most areas. Not meaning the audio quality, but everything around.

Not every parameter on every plugin can be automated - some just don't allow it, or they simply weren't coded to allow it. I was trying to add automation to an old 32-bit synth, and it looked like the plugin was assigning parameters to random midi channels everytime you opened the project, so none of my automation moves would 'stick', they'd break. Anyway, in the end I just froze the synth channel with all my automation (for that single project session) and used that. I was just wondering if Metaplugin could help (yes, I know how to automate capable plugins inside Metaplugin).


I agree, it's a bit of a 'rough diamond'.

I am having problems exporting in Logic when using Metaplugin to oversample plugins. When bouncing the project Logic freezes - it happens more often than not.

Sometimes it works by activating 'Realtime' and 'Offline' at the same time or by switching either on and off but definitely it isn't working correctly - is anybody having this problem in Logic or any other DAW?

This happens for me in FL Studio too. It's not Metaplugin's fault per se, it's just that many, MANY plugins simply cannot handle the higher sample rates that Metaplugin can subject them to. With a 48kHz project, anything over 4x oversampling in Metaplugin is cause for concern / can crash. Offline rendering at even higher rates can instantly freeze the DAW on export... you click render and boom, nothing - not responding + force quit the app. The plugins simply will not work at that samplerate. I've tested this and confirmed - as you bring the oversampling down, and then it renders. Start at x2.

There's no way DDMF can account for every plugin's samplerate limitation, so I think a general rule is just becareful with anything over x2/x4 OS.

Thanks for the info and tips - I will be careful not to overdo the oversampling.

Hopefully DDMF will improve the plugin as it is great and would love to see use it in a more stable update.

Yeah, it's usually a plugin issue, not a Metaplugin issue. Depending on the highest sample rate a plugin can handle you'll either get no audio or a crash.
If you're at 48k and a plugin can operate up to 192k you're okay at 4x, but if you OS it 8x you're forcing it to 384k. If you're at 96k you're forcing it to 768k. But some go that high, so it's hard to know. Usually 384K is alright for most plugins in my experience.

One thing I've never been entirely clear on is if a plugin does an internal OS at x2 and you put metaplugin at x4, are you effectively getting x8? Or is the plugins internal OS being ignored? Scenario 1 seems more likely than scenario 2.

I am working at 44.1 at the moment (in the project which quits Logic) and all works fine in real-time - normally I am using up to X4, no more.

The strange thing is that if I bounce again (till it works) it works, so the plugin(s) supports it fine. I have tried the same with just ONE plugin in an empty Logic project and the same problem, so something tells me that there is an issue somewhere - it might be the Logic version (one of the latest) with Metaplugin or Metaplugin itself?

I get no problems with any other plugin in Logic when exporting. Even with a single track in an empty project at 44.1 just using X4, freezes Logic.

Regarding the internal plugin oversample plus metaplugin oversample, there is a change in sound when you on/off the internal plugin oversample within a certain X(2,4,8). We can guess that oversample is multiplied by the X in metaplugin?

Hi, I´m new here!
The latest version v3.9.85 crashes cubase, when I load some VST3 plugins (e.g. Arturia FET76 Comp). But why I'm writing here is another question: I loaded GuitarRig6 into Metaplugin on a test basis, along with a compressor and tape from Softube. For offline oversample I have 16x enabled. For comparison I loaded the same plugins without Metaplugin and compared both exported files. And the version without metaplugin sounds much better and clearer. The version with metaplugin sounds squawky and you can hear extremely much distortion. Did I do something wrong?

16x is extreme and not everything sounds better with OS. It really depends on the plugin. 4x is usually pretty safe but there's not much in the way of guarantees past that. I found that one NeuralDSP amp sounds good at 8x and another at 8x introduced some really bad distortion. If you're forcing the plugin past the range of sample rates it is designed for and it still passes audio and doesn't crash you're likely to get bad sounding audio out!
More is not always better!

Yep. I experienced too this kind of situation.
I think most soundtoys plugins can't go past X4 upsampling in Metaplugin and crash or distorts heavily if that happens.
You need to imagine that X4 upsampling is 176 kHz, X8 is 352 kHz and X16 is 704kHz !!!

I don't think a lot of audio interface can go past 192kHz.
So I think a lot of plugins are not made to accept more than 192kHz, because in the mind of their conceptor, nobody will run a session at this sample rate...
Only plugins that feature extreme upsampling (like FabFilter's Saturn, that has X16 upsampling) are coded with this kind of possibility - but you don't need Metaplugin for them...

I never go past X4 and often prefer the sound of X2.

Thanks for your feedback. I noticed that GuitarRig6 seems to do 2x oversampling on its own. If I do 2x on top with Metaplugin, it is 4x oversampling in total.

softube plugins doesn't support sample rate past 192k or oversampling past 192k it's a limitation due to ilok, I think almost every ilok protected plugin have this problem.

I just tried with PSP E27, Liquidsonics Tai Chi and Kush TWK (all iLok plugins) and they accept X16 upsampling without any issue (my CPU is just melting).
So I think it's only question of coding...

It is indeed up to the individual plugin developers to support higher sample rates (for oversampling) and the way they parse whatever rate is being used.

i understand but the ones that could go past 192 are also the ones with the weakest security, the oversampling option unavailable from soft ilok plugin brand could be a side effect of making their code security tigher but would love for softube to leave ilok and build their own security system.

I love the sonic improvement with some plugins, but with others such as echoboy it just sounds wrong. Even without any OS it sounds wrong, it lacks bass, body, volume drops noticeably and many other unexpected changes.

Meta Plugin crashes Ableton at 100% rendering every time. Only using 4x os.. as soon as I deactivate meta it works again. Haven't been able to render once with meta... anybody else the same problem?

Contacted Christian already but somehow meta doesn't show up in the crash report.

I'm assuming you're trying different plugins? 4x doesn't seem like much, and usually when I've pushed a plugin past it's max sample rate it just doesn't pass audio, though sometimes it has crashed Cubase.
It really depends on which rate you're working in, what the max sample rate for the plugin is and if it's already doing its own OS.

As an aside, I was expecting/hoping for an update before the end of March as Christian had mentioned the ability to wrap Rosetta Intel plugins into Native was coming within a few weeks. I'm sure it isn't an easy task, but it should be here soon.

Yes workin at 48khz and tried inflator and aroma.. bought it pretty much only because of those two. It doesn't even work at 0x os, tried it also in a different projects.
Tried pretty much everything now.

Hm as much as I love the idea of the plugin.. something is seriously wrong with it. By default in/out put are at 7.1 and when I try to change it, it switches back to 7.1 as soon as I close the window. It jumps randomly in full screen mode (why it even has a full screen mode?) and crashed Ableton like 30 times in the last days..

Ok problem solved.. seems like the Au version of meta doesn’t like ableton. Vst3 works

Hello, newbie here!
I'm trying to automate wet/dry in logic but it doesn't work, although the GUI reacts correctly to the automation lane the resulting sound is stuck on the latest position I shift-clicked on metaplugin.
Any help appreciated!
Matteo

Automating parameters of plugins inside Metaplugin is not straight-forward.

I use FL Studio, not Logic, and you can't just move a knob do the normal easy FL Studio method of creating an automation for that parameter.

Instead, I have to use FL Studio's plugin wrapper settings of Metaplugin to 'Browse Parameters', which reveals a list of parameters that can be automated, and then do it that way.

I believe the manual explains it more clearly - it'll be different for every DAW depending on how you can browse and reveal internal parameters of plugins - rather than an easy "automate last altered parameter" DAW way.