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Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)
Old 26th October 2020
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lightbulb Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Technical background:

Simulation of analog sound like saturation from transformers, compressors, tape, EQs,... makes the creation of harmonics necessary.

Hardware:
When analog gear is recorded, it doesn't matter if that gear creates harmonic content exceeding Nyquist frequency, because all A/D-converters use steep lopass filters and get rid of any frequencies above Nyquist frequency (sampling frequency/2) and therefore prevent aliasing artifacts.
48 kHz sampling f = 24 kHz Nyquist = highest detectable frequency


ITB:
If harmonics are created by plugins, frequencies within the plugin are created which easily could exceed the current Nyquist frequency of the project.

For example smashing hihats or cymbals (which have significant amplitudes in the 10 kHz range) with a compressor and/or tape saturation, means - for example - the 3rd harmonics of the 10 kHz already appear @30 kHz.

That means, if the DAW runs @44 kHz (Nyquist = 22 kHz) and the plugin developer does not care abut that problem, that 3rd harmonics created in the plugin will appear below Nyquist in the audible treble range at 14 kHz.

example 4th harmonics of 10 kHz = 40 kHz -> that inaudible 4th harmonics of 10k reappears at 4 kHz in the audible range...


So an aliased 14 kHz / 4 kHz signal is added to the cymbals track (ofcourse not only these two frequencies, because the cymbals are not only @10 kHz, but all harmonic multiples of the frequencies in the original signal above Nyquist are folded down into the audible range).

In contrast any recorded analog gear would be free of these aliasing "signals".



What makes things worse: the aliased, downfolded, unwanted frequencies add unwanted signal energy to the frequency range they appear in. They add "treble" energy by adding garbage. They increase signal energy in the mids, but its garbage.



If a SNR of 65 dB is assumed as technically acceptable minimum between the signal and any unwanted "noise" (aliasing frequencies technically are not noise, but are unwanted garbage just like noise), the anti-alias filtering taking place in the plugin should keep any harmonics below that level.


It should also be kept in mind, that usually lots of additional processing is taking place with the signal after harmonic content has been added by a plugin: once a "analog" plugin has injected audible aliasing garbage into the signal, its not possible to get rid of it ever again.




I used Plugindoctor for testing. The results were surprising to me.
Sometimes especially the big names in the industry seem not to use even the most basic anti-aliasing filters and allow 100% aliasing garbage to be injected into the audio signal.

But on the other hand, I am very pleased to see less widely known names obviously doing lots of good things to prevent the aliasing garbage from becoming audible.

Screenshots showing results to follow...


List of tested plugins:

Analog Obsession STEQ
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Audified RZ062
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

BBE Harmonic Maximizer
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

BOZ Little Clipper
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Brainworx Analog Design Black Box HG-2
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Brainworx Console SSL 4000 G
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Cytomic The Glue
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Cytomic The Scream
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

DDMF Magic Death Eye
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

DMG Audio TrackComp 2
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Empirical Labs Arousor
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Eventide Omnipressor
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Fabfilter Saturn 2
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Fuse Audio Labs VPRE-562A
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Fuse Audio Labs VQA-154
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

IM Multimedia TRacks5 EQ-73
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Izotope Ozone 9 Exciter
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Kazrog True Iron
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Kush Hammer
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Lindell 80 Channel
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

SIR Standard Clip
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Softube Saturation Knob
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Softube Harmonic Analog Saturation Processor
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Softube Summit Audio EQF-100
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

TDR Kotelnikov GE
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

TDR VOS Slick EQ
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Tone Empire Opto Red
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

UHE Satin
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Voxengo OVC-128
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Abbey Road Saturator
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves CLA-2A
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Kramer HLS
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves L1
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Renaissance Channel
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Renaissance Compressor RComp
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Scheps 73
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves Scheps Omni Channel
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves SSL G-Channel & G-EQ
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Waves VEQ4
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)

Last edited by Fred vom Jupiter; 8th January 2021 at 10:01 PM.. Reason: updated 8.1.2021
Old 26th October 2020
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
EQ - TDR VOS Slick EQ (Anti-Aliasing Winner)

I used a setting to enforce decent amount of saturation of around -25 dB.

How to read the measurements (48 kHz):
Sinewave at 5.3 kHz creates 2nd (@12k) and 3rd harmonics (@18k) around -25 dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-01-tdr-vos-slick-eq-.jpg


Sinewave @16.7k creates 2nd (@33k), 3rd (@50k) which is way beyond Nyquist (24kHz), so without any Anti-Aliasing measures they would appear as -25 dB spikes in the audible range (15k, 2k?).

The amazing result:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-tdr-vos-slick-eq-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-01-tdr-vos-slick-eq-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-tdr-vos-slick-eq-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Waves Scheps 73

Sine 6k
The spike (2nd harmonic?) @12k has ~-30dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-scheps-73-.jpg


That spike appears aliased at full energy with -30 dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-scheps-73-b.jpg

There seems to be no anti-aliasing mechanism at all.
All frequencies are folded down into the audible range at full level.
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-scheps-73-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-02-scheps-73-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #4
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Audified RZ062

The harmonic which is created at -25dB reappears, but is quite well reduced to -50 dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-03-audified-rz062-.jpg



Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-03-audified-rz062-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-03-audified-rz062-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-03-audified-rz062-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Fuse Audio Labs VQA-154

Lots of harmonics up to -25dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-04-fuse-audio-labs-vqa-154-.jpg


Greatly reduced:
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-04-fuse-audio-labs-vqa-154-b.jpg

to be continued...
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-04-fuse-audio-labs-vqa-154-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-04-fuse-audio-labs-vqa-154-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
mcanicos's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for your analysis.
Like you, many times I have commented what you say:
- big software developers (waves, plugin alliance, etc) continue to develop plugins that do not oversampling and that show an indecent amount of aliasing. That aliasing was acceptable years ago, but at present it is not understandable due to the great power of current processors.

- It is gratifying to see that at least small developers like TDR, Voxengo and others have been concerned about this problem for years and increasingly optimize their software to improve oversampling and reduce aliasing.

-Other developers of more weight Waves( for exampl), renews in its version 12 the graphic aspect of its plugins, when what really matters about an audio plugin is exactly that, its sound.

Anyway this issue is a losing battle.

I'm tired of arguing with people (who apparently must have a wooden ear) that aliasing on a single track could even be acceptable, but the sum of all tracks aliased at the end manages to muddy the sound and remove it. Its definition, in the best of cases, is like applying a "blur" to an image.

As I say, your observations are very correct, but I advise you not to waste your time.

Sorry for my english
Old 26th October 2020
  #7
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🎧 15 years
How can I learn to hear aliasing? I use certain Waves and PI plug ins and I love them, and my ears are good as a musician, and I've been training them as an engineer, but I'm not able to hear this yet.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #8
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants ➑️
How can I learn to hear aliasing? I use certain Waves and PI plug ins and I love them, and my ears are good as a musician, and I've been training them as an engineer, but I'm not able to hear this yet.
Thats not difficult: play a good VSTi with a very overtone rich sound, like a supersaw.
Make sure the VSTi has oversampling turned off.
Set the project sampling rate @44k and render it @44k and then set the project to 96k or even higher, and render with that rate.

Then compare how vastly different the two files sound. That effect on the highs, that the supersaw loses that "expensive" silky brightness is caused by aliasing.

You can also open the 192k file in a sound editor and downsample it correctly to 44 kHz.
You will hear no difference between the correctly downsampled 44k and the 192k file, but still the big difference between the originally aliased 44k and the downsampled 44k file.
Old 26th October 2020
  #9
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Kush Hammer

Harmonics from -25 dB...

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-05-kush-hammer.jpg

down to amazing < -80 dB:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-05-kush-hammer-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-05-kush-hammer.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-05-kush-hammer-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #10
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Brainworx Console SSL 4000 G

Running the plugin gainstaged for harmonics @-25dB

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-06-brainworx-console-ssl-4000-g-.jpg

"catastrophic" 100% aliasing mirror:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-06-brainworx-console-ssl-4000-g-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-06-brainworx-console-ssl-4000-g-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-06-brainworx-console-ssl-4000-g-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Poopypants's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter ➑️
Thats not difficult: play a good VSTi with a very overtone rich sound, like a supersaw.
Make sure the VSTi has oversampling turned off.
Set the project sampling rate @44k and render it @44k and then set the project to 96k or even higher, and render with that rate.

Then compare how vastly different the two files sound. That effect on the highs, that the supersaw loses that "expensive" silky brightness is caused by aliasing.

You can also open the 192k file in a sound editor and downsample it correctly to 44 kHz.
You will hear no difference between the correctly downsampled 44k and the 192k file, but still the big difference between the originally aliased 44k and the downsampled 44k file.

Thank you.

I almost understand this. I don't know if I'd know (or if I have) a good VSTi. I think the Vacuum instrument that comes with ProTools is good, so I may be pretty far behind you.

I have Reason, but again, I don't know if any of those count as a good VSTi and I'd have no idea how to turn off oversampling. Same for the synths that come with the Plugin Alliance package.

I've got the Kontakt free to run Spitfire Chamber Strings.

Anything in there I could use for this experiment?
Old 26th October 2020
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Waves Scheps Omni Channel

-25 dB 3rd harmonic:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-07-waves-scheps-omni-channel-.jpg


100% perfect aliasing mirror @ Nyquist

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-07-waves-scheps-omni-channel-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-07-waves-scheps-omni-channel-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-07-waves-scheps-omni-channel-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #13
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
You realise that you're driving these plugins at 0dBFS right? They're designed to be used at -18dBFS (or whatever they're calibrated for).

If you're using a channel EQ at 0dBFS there's something seriously wrong with your gain staging :Β¬)
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants ➑️
How can I learn to hear aliasing? I use certain Waves and PI plug ins and I love them, and my ears are good as a musician, and I've been training them as an engineer, but I'm not able to hear this yet.
Lets do it: The Ultimate Plugin Analysis Thread

Can you hear the difference in this extreme example? All of the added highs and nasty harsh energy is aliasing.

The general rule of thumb is this:

Have you ever noticed mixes with a lot of "analogue modeled plugins" tends to easily get quite harsh, especially in the 5 to 10kHz region? Usually making you grab an EQ and desperately trying to "de-harsh" the mix.. well that's aliasing for you. If you do exactly the same mix with identical analogue equipment all of that mush and harshness would be gone. If you did that mix with plugins that took care of aliasing, most of that mush and harshness would be vastly reduced (but you'd add some up+down sampling artifacts instead which to my ears always sounds a bit "constrained" and "hard" for transients). It's a trade-off.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se ➑️
You realise that you're driving these plugins at 0dBFS right? They're designed to be used at -18dBFS (or whatever they're calibrated for).

If you're using a channel EQ at 0dBFS there's something seriously wrong with your gain staging :Β¬)
Do you even understand what these tests show?
Old 26th October 2020
  #16
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
IK Multimedia TRacks5 EQ-73

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-08-tr5-eq-73-.jpg


100% aliasing:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-08-tr5-eq-73-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-08-tr5-eq-73-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-08-tr5-eq-73-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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b0se's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter ➑️
Do you even understand what these tests show?
Yes, you're looking at aliasing performance by driving channel strips (designed for 0VU input levels) at 0dBFS.

See that 0.0dB box under the frequency slider? Drop that to -18 and you'll be using the plugins as intended.

When was the last time you fed an 1176 at unity gain?
Old 26th October 2020
  #18
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Waves VEQ4

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-09-waves-veq4-.jpg

100% aliasing:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-09-waves-veq4-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-09-waves-veq4-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-09-waves-veq4-b.jpg  
Old 26th October 2020
  #19
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🎧 5 years
Drop the input levels to 0VU on the plugin's meter.
That is where the plugins intended to work.
Old 26th October 2020
  #20
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who here wishes plugin doctor had never been invented? lol
Old 26th October 2020
  #21
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Look at the diff using -18db in ssl console g
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-ssl-g-minus18-db.jpg  
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Deleted fa7843c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter ➑️


100% aliasing:

It looks like harmonics to me? All the noise is @ -175dB, totally inaudible? Would this be the theoretical "noise floor" -- again @ -175dB? That's not even perceptible. I was under the impression that -100dB, or -120dB if you really want to ensure such aliasing is ameliorated, should suffice. This threshold is held to be more or less the agreed upon standard? Maybe ~-150dB tops for the higher sample rates, but even that seems like an exercise in futility as my take is that it's not humanly perceptible. I hate to be redundant.

@ bmanic already referenced the Plugin Analysis Thread; this information might fit in well there, and there's extensive discussion about "the line of perceptibility." I don't believe a new Thread is required when lots of Posts exist within the mentioned Thread that include extensive analyses.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #23
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuasalogam ➑️
Drop the input levels to 0VU on the plugin's meter.
That is where the plugins intended to work.
No matter how low the signal is: a plugin without anti-aliasing filtering folds all harmonics it creates above Nyquist down into the signal.

If one can or cannot hear the difference between a correct saturation effect and aliasing mess, does not matter, because it doesn't change the fact.
I made the tests for myself and now I share the results. Nobody is forced to learn something from it. Take it or leave it.
But don't say stupid things to me, like aliasing does not matter.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtROBOT ➑️
Look at the diff using -18db in ssl console g
People here are surprised that harmonics are lower, if the plugin is driven less hot?

Keep the level @-18 dB and then move the sinewave up to Nyquist. What happens to the harmonics?
Old 27th October 2020
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Waves Kramer HLS

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-10-waves-kramer-hls-.jpg

100% aliasing:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-10-waves-kramer-hls-b.jpg

So far I have not found a single Waves plugin that protects the signal from aliasing.
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-10-waves-kramer-hls-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-10-waves-kramer-hls-b.jpg  
Old 27th October 2020
  #26
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Softube Summit Audio EQF-100

Lots of beautiful harmonics:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-11-softube-summit-audio-eqf-100-.jpg


And well handled from creating audible aliasing:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-11-softube-summit-audio-eqf-100-b.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-11-softube-summit-audio-eqf-100-.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-11-softube-summit-audio-eqf-100-b.jpg  
Old 27th October 2020
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I just wanted to support your thread. I know some might think I'm wrong for this.

I have been working and recording at 192khz for years just for this reason. Saturation, tape, and drive plugins I like to use don't oversample. So I use them and work at 192khz.

A lot of what I do to get the sound I like is through saturation. I did a lot of tests myself and noticed the same findings. I think that aliasing is a lot of the bad "digital fizz" of amp plugins. And that strange unpleasant high-frequency harsh fizz in sound after certain types of plugin processing. To my ears and the way I work and the tools I use 192khz, it is for me.
Old 27th October 2020
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Waves SSL G-Channel / G-EQ

A quite interesting find:

Waves SSL 4k G-Channel, dynamics deactivated, only G-EQ:

creates harmonics (plus Waves usual 100% aliasing):
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12a-waves-ssl-g.jpg


Waves G-EQ, individual plugin:

Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12b-waves-ssl-g.jpg

No harmonics (= aliasing free famous G-Channel EQ-curves)
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12a-waves-ssl-g.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12b-waves-ssl-g.jpg  
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #29
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Impact of 2x oversampling

Waves SSL 4k G-Channel, only G-EQ:

harmonics:



100% aliasing:
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12c-waves-ssl-g.jpg


2x oversampling:
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12d-waves-ssl-g.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12c-waves-ssl-g.jpg   Testing Aliasing of Plugins (measurements)-12d-waves-ssl-g.jpg  
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #30
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Poopypants's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➑️
Lets do it: The Ultimate Plugin Analysis Thread

Can you hear the difference in this extreme example? All of the added highs and nasty harsh energy is aliasing.
I listened on three different sets of speakers. On my crappy outboard computer speakers, I heard no difference. On my CRAPPIER built in speakers, I could hear that the low end was thinner on the all 44 one. On headphones, again, the 44 was brighter, but had more low end than the crappy computer speakers.

There's a difference, but at this point, I can't say one sounds "better" than the other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➑️

The general rule of thumb is this:

Have you ever noticed mixes with a lot of "analogue modeled plugins" tends to easily get quite harsh, especially in the 5 to 10kHz region? Usually making you grab an EQ and desperately trying to "de-harsh" the mix.. well that's aliasing for you.
No. I've never noticed this, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
πŸ“ Reply

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