Alright, and i'm only speaking about the limiter. The other TDR plugins work fine

About that peak reducing without compensation. I guess that, in the end, you will turn up the gain after removing peaks? Most of the time i gain 4 or 5 db LUFS by clipping + limiting.

Exactly,

In the end I turn up the gain, but never while evaluating the sound of the processing.

Can you name them?

Izotope

What are the GR meters in each module showing?
Peak or RMS GR?
This is in the default Stereo mode.

I’ve been doing some A B tests against smart:limit.
Using the same gain increase and ceiling threshold in both - and ending up with the same level - the meters in Limiter 6 show much less GR.

Fabien?

I saw a youtube video in which there was a comparison between FabFilter Pro-L2 and the smart:limit... In that video also the Pro-L2 showed less GR at the same settings.
Hmmm?

Interesting, I haven’t seen that.
But I added Barricade to the test session and that showed similar GR readings as smart:limit.

I’m really just curious.
I use Limiter 6 GE on a very regular basis.

The GR readout might be different because the limiters have different knees and other stuff happening under the hood. Just a guess.

Readings could differ due to many reasons. Hard to guess from here. Can you post your limiter 6 preset for reference? I can then take a closer look at it.

I feel the same way about the clipper GR meter, it may be showing less than 1dB reduction and when I bypass the plugin Reaper's peak meter shows that it was doing quite a bit more.
Anyway, I really like how it sounds and rarely if ever need anything more, loudness wise, in my mixbus.

Ok Fabien, here it is:

<TDRLimiter6GE compEnabled="Off" compVisible="Off" compMSEnabled="Off" compMode="Leveler" compGain="0.0" compWidthGain="0.0" compThresh="-7.5" compWidthThresh="0.0" compRatio="2.0" compAttack="50" compRelease="100" compDryMixMode="Dry Amount" compDryWet="0.0" compDryMix="off" compMeterScale="3 dB" peakLimiterEnabled="On" peakLimiterVisible="On" peakLimiterMSEnabled="Off" peakLimiterGain="1.1" peakLimiterWidthGain="0.0" peakLimiterThreshold="-0.5" peakLimiterWidthThreshold="0.0" peakLimiterBrickwall="Off" peakLimiterMultiband="On" peakLimiterLookahead="2x" peakLimiterFocus="-0.5" peakLimiterRelease="50" peakLimiterDryMixMode="Dry Amount" peakLimiterDryWet="0.0" peakLimiterDryMix="off" peakLimiterMeterScale="4 dB" hfLimiterEnabled="On" hfLimiterVisible="On" hfLimiterMSEnabled="Off" hfLimiterThreshold="-4.9" hfLimiterWidthThreshold="0.0" hfLimiterRange="0.0" hfLimiterWidthRange="0.0" hfLimiterFrequency="5000" hfLimiterType="Abs." hfLimiterDryMixMode="Dry Amount" hfLimiterDryWet="0.0" hfLimiterDryMix="off" hfLimiterMeterScale="18 dB" hfLimiterSolo="Off" clipperEnabled="On" clippervisible="On" clipperMSEnabled="Off" clipperGain="7.0" clipperWidthGain="0.0" clipperThreshold="-0.5" clipperWidthThreshold="0.0" clipperMode="Open" clipperSeparation="50" clipperKnee="6.0" clipperDryMixMode="Dry Amount" clipperDryWet="0.0" clipperDryMix="off" clipperMeterScale="2 dB" outputDrive="0.0" outputCeilingTP="-0.5" outputCeilingPCM="-0.5" outputLimit="True Peak" outputMeterScale="3 dB" meterEnabled="On" meterVisible="On" meterConfigEnabled="Off" meterPeakRange="40 dB" meterEbuRange="40 LU" meterEbuScale="Absolute" meterEbuZero="-14.0" meterPeakBoxMode="TRUE PEAK max" meterLoudnessBoxMode="MOMENTARY" moduleOrder="3" delta="Off" bypass="Off" autoPad="Off" quality="Insane" channels="Stereo" dithering="Off"/>

One more question please.
When the TP max readout turns Red sometimes, does that mean that TPs have gone over the TP ceiling (for example -0.5 dB) ?
Or does it mean they would have gone over, if the Output module hadn't caught them ?

All the best for the Festive Season Fabien and Vlad.

How so? Care to elaborate?

It has a HF pre-emphasis, so that the clipping is more sensitive to the highs, which is similar to how tape works. Set it to a wide knee and you get smooth tape-like clipping. Using the HF limiter in conjunction can take things further and emulate the signal going through the analog circuitry in the "tape machine".

Translating that to the actual plugin in question:
- Use the Clipper in Open mode
- I assume a wide knee means turning it to the left --> 0db ?

No, the other way round i.e. 12db

Shhh... you're giving away all the "secrets".

I find that when the bottom is in good shape, most tracks handle the Open setting well for the mids too. It's subtle and it helps make the vocals "sit" better many times.

Useful info, thanks guys!

New broadcast mode in the compressor section of limiter 6.
It seems to be a 3 band multiband compressor with a huge phase shift produced by the crossover between lows and mids.

Could we have a little more technical details ?
It looks cool, but I didn't test it yet.

EDIT : by the way, I bought a brand new M1 laptop, and because I've got now a huge CPU headroom I'm rediscovering how amazing the Limiter 6 is. I was a bit reluctant to use it before (because of its CPU hit), but now that I can use it anywhere anytime without overthinking I'm truly amazed by its quality and the way it is designed...

It's a rather exotic setup, let me explain:

The low to mid band transition uses 48dB/oct filtering, the mid to high transition is 6dB/oct.

This is designed to intentionally produce a strong phase rotation in the lower mids which tends to symmetrize waveforms. The mids to highs remain phase transparent.

In addition, the low to mid transition is strongly distortion shielded. Meaning that distortion produced in one band is actively shielded from leaking into the other band (much lower level than usual).

The compressors involved are inspired by Molot's "Dual Stage Mode" (i.e. Molotok's beta mode). Great for complex material, no pumping or breathing.

All this is a lucky combination offering an interesting alternative colour to weak mixes. It's a bit of a one trick pony, but one that can't be found elsewhere.


With regard to CPU load. Each of Limiter 6's module is equivalent to the complexity of what usually makes a whole plugin. Using all modules at once will act like 5-6 really fat plugins. Our concepts generally don't short-cut audio processing fidelity for CPU performance.

You can get CPU load back to "typical" levels by using the ECO mode, and optimally also turning off the modules that never reach threshold. Consider overwriting the default preset with this setting. The main audience is mastering, so by default we assume no more than 5-6 other plugins running.

@ FabienTDR

Thanks for the details.
New mode looks great. What is the typical use case ?

Regarding CPU consumption, all your plugins are quite CPU intensive compared to other similar ones, but I know it's no bad coding : from what I can notice it's quality, upsampling, features, etc.
I was using a mid-2012 macbook, and when your session is on the verge of CPU overload (mine are always like that), only using the clipper module on the drum bus can be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Anyway, I always loved your stuff, but right now I can use them without any fear.
And it's regularly updated with new stuff.

The new mode is great on drum rooms. You can really push the resonances and room sound with broadcast mode in a very clean manner. It does not work well on individual drum mics or in parallel due to huge phase shift, but drum rooms can get by with 48db filters.

I don't think this plugin is meant to work on individual sounds, am i right?

You can use a clipper or a limiter or a compressor on any source.
It's more rare to use all that on a channel, and of course the plugin is designed to be used on the mix bus, but I used it on many different sources and it's ok as long as you've can handle the cpu load...
I'm alwyas using the clipper on drums for exemple (individual part and/or drum bus).

I had to download the demo to try the Broadcast setting on Limiter 6. Wow. One trick pony but what a trick it is. Impressive at bringing out a kick pattern in a busy mix. I will be purchasing limiter 6 for this feature especially. The rest of the limiter is quite impressive as well, just always been a bit high on cpu for me.

You mentioned it, I tried it. And liked.

Phase delaying the low-end is such a nice feature and maybe that's why it's finding its way to almost all TDR plug-ins!
I consider it a secret weapon, as I'm mainly working in genres that require punchy mixes. I'm usually using SlickEQ for it, as I selectively phase rotate the low-end of just the kick track, for example. It seems to sharpen transients (as they now have their own space to hit before the low end) and make the low end just a bit bigger at the same time. Most of the other mixing engineers working with same type of material do tend to also phase-rotate the low end, but perhaps unwittingly by using multiband compressors with minimum phase crossovers. The downside to that approach is that most MB:s also mess up the higher frequency transients since there's usually more crossovers affecting the phase within that range.

I had a question for Fabien: I've been messing with limiters like the Invisible Limiter and the Stealth Limiter. Neither of these limiters have controllable attack / release, and they both seem to keep the "envelope" of the track intact (for example, attack of the drums), more so than any other lookahead limiters with timing controls, preferring distortion over pumping/breathing. They seem to be more like waveshapers than lookahead limiters in a traditional sense. IIRC both devs claim that they're avoiding coloration by doing some sort recovery/reconstruction of clipped peaks and in my tests they distort less than straight-up clippers. I was wondering if you could give me some tips to replicate this super fast behavior in Limiter 6 somehow. I've tried different combinations of the clipper and peak limiter, but when trying to match the gain, I'm always falling short: The clipper seems to distort more, and the peak limiter seems to pump more than the aforementioned limiters.

yep, very nice feature addition.

But there is the "poor man" phase rotation for low frequencies : just add a high-pass filter with a 18 or 24 db slope, and find the good frequency so you don't cut the useful lows but keeps the effect of phase rotation.
I discovered when I started to mix that high-passing the kicks or basses like that make them sit better in the mix and sharpen the transients.

Don’t want to unfocus the attention to this plugin and its value phase-wise, but just a side note: SSL X-Phase is a godsend flexible versatile powerful tool for messing with phase, another secret bullet for sure..

There's also the all pass filter (combined with the band delay) in Volcano 3 from FabFilter.
I don't have any idea how to use that, I'm just tweaking knobs until I get someting useable.

Anyway, I still need to try this new compressor mode in Limiter 6. I must admit I very rarely use the compressor module, and I'm sure it's a big mistake...

I have no clear workaround for you (also in lack of reference of what you're working with and no insight of what they are doing in detail).

The secret could very well be straight PCM clipping, which Limiter 6 GE doesn't offer. Have you tried to set the output limiter to PCM only? Does it improve the matter?

Limiter 6 GE is a modern remake of Vlad's popular Lim 6. Sort of a modular synth alike for all things compression/limiting. It's not a take on modern loudness maximization - a challenge we'll possibly address sooner or later with a dedicated maximizer concept.

Limiter 6 GE is most rewarding when you want to approach maximization in a creative way early in the mix (and have the time for it). It's much less capable with regard to "set and forget" workflows.