Now this used to be quite the contentious topic back when i used to use computers for making music, well over a decade ago now.

Is it still the same, does the war rage on, or is everything finally homogenised and ubiquitous now? Time was, certain DAWs (or “sequencers”, as we used to call them) were only compatible with one OS, and not the other. Same with softsynths and FX, some were VST only, some were AU only.

Reason I’m asking is I’m considering getting myself a laptop with something like Live or Renoise on it just for messing about - which i’m sure is where it starts and there’ll be a huge hardware selloff on the not too distant horizon for me - and was looking at maybe a Macbook, whereas I used to be strictly PC and Cubase back in the 00’s and Mac simply weren’t an option for me. There was some tasty looking Mac only software back then, but 90% of what I was into was PC only.

I'd be pretty surprised if it made a real difference now. Pick the OS you're comfortable with.

There are still a handful of DAWs that are Mac only (e.g., Logic) or PC only (e.g., Cakewalk, FLS), but the ones you’ve mentioned are cross-platform, so go with the computer and OS you prefer and ignore the sh**storm that’s about to ensue here.

If it were me, the only laptop I’d consider for audio work is a Mac. I don’t care to argue about it, nor do I agree with everything Apple does, but if I have to buy an off the shelf computer, that’s my choice.

It doesn't make any difference to me for music purposes. I mainly use Mac now, but I prefer Windows, although I don't really care as it's only a computer.

I don't use Mac but keep hearing about compatibility issues with plarform and hardware revisions. Doesn't make me feel too confident.

There was one such event on Windows about 15 years ago (driver models changed) and nothing since.

If you're getting a laptop, I don't think anything can beat a Mac overall right now (because battery life really does matter for a laptop - unless it'll ALWAYS be plugged in). If you're getting a desktop, I don't think anything can beat a top of the line Windows PC right now.

I use a mac, but I really can't say what is right for you. There are plenty of good reason to go with Windows or even linux these days. I'm currently shopping for a windows box so I can play some old games (fallout NV an and bioshock2), so I am not opposed to windows.

But if I have a choice I prefer a mac.

To be clear I am certain that everyone's experiences vary, so no need to tell me that similar experience can be had on different hardware or OSs.

I grew up on windows (and started in DOS 5.5, Win 3.1). I used it until about 2010, when I used Linux desktop for a bit, and then moved to OS X.

I can give you some of my thoughts and experiences. I am a computer programmer by trade, and I spend a lot of time in the command line. At its base, it has always felt like a more sensible operating system for how my mind works. Also, I spend a lot of time working with servers running linux, so a unix-based os is great (and yes, I am aware that now there now is a linux subsystem available on windows)

Here's what I like about macOS:

- I like logic a lot, and it's been very inexpensive over the years. I paid $200 for it 10 years ago and am still using it, and it's worked on all my computers over the years

- I have never had device issues. It may be a lot better these days, but Windows always required a lot more work as far as obtaining and installing drivers (and when I was trying to get Linux to work with my firewire ASIO card, it was a non-starter)

- for me (who is using these machines 10 hours a day) the hardware feels more solid: the machines have all lasted much longer than the Toshiba Satellites I was using I am still regularly using a 2011 MBP, and my 2015 is my main music computer, my 2019 was bought for me by work. Even though the hardware costs a lot more, it has lasted me a lot longer and has been a lot easier to repair or get repaired

- in addition to my 3 MBPs, I have an iPad, an iPhone, and the apple ear buds, and the os integration between devices is quite good... the messaging app, for instance, works really well, as does device handoff (ie, I can paste from my computer into my phone) I am sure device integration has gotten better in the windows ecosystem, but macOS - iOS integration has been working very well for me

- the trackpad is much, much better than anything I have used on other hardware, and I use it a whole dang lot

- used/refurb hardware is easy to get and the specs are consistent

- the app store and package ecosystem (I use brew a lot) is quite good

I love my MBP 16 M1–it’s a gorgeous but expensive machine. I also will never stop using Windows, though. It’s just an OS I’ve always known…….since WINDOWS XP KEY, “ DEVIL’S OWN”

2010 is around when Windows started getting good. It was Windows 7x64, once the manufacturers updated their drivers. Been great ever since (I also used it from DOS days). I’ve been using a Mac since around 2010 and… now have more problems with a Mac than PC, which is uncommon with both. Both are pretty equal now with their own pros and cons.

Can't speak about Macs, but Windows PCs have been pretty solid since Win7 for me.

The Mac vs PC war was over about a decade ago. Nobody won, everyone picked what made more sense to them and moved on.

I've been switching back and forth between Macs and PCs for the last 20+ years, but I've been using PCs for the last few years. Both have their pros and cons, but since I use KeyboardMaestro and AHK, I'm fine with either.

Since this thread eventually will be moved to 'Music Computers' anyway.

On the current level the difference between the two platforms doesn't differ all that much for most people. It's more on the level of what you think is the better thing for you. The days that you had to get the cutting edge technology in computing to be able to use it in the studio or on a stage are long gone. There is a huge range of computing products that can be used for pretty much every need in any studio and on any stage.

On a technical level there is a significant distinction between the two. The new M series of CPU's or rather SoC is a major innovation in the computer industry altogether. Very similar performance but at 1/3 of the power consumption. For portable computers like laptops and tablets this is a huge difference. Which pretty much means that Apple laptops are currently on top for multi-media purposes (but gaming not that much).

With the 13th generation of PC CPU's which are quite needy power consumers it starts to weigh in as well. It makes sense that manufacturers of portable devices will follow suit of the techniques which Apple has refined. Eventually the regular PC market also will go the way of SoC computing. Moore's law is all but dead and buried so other avenues for innovations will be explored further. Also as a business model is another way to once more change an entire platform that will be only partially backwards compatible.

Then again Apple is developing the new iteration of their 'cheese grader' and it feature multiple Mx chips in it and will be close to server grade performance (and pricing). It most likely will outperform current latest generation PC computers but will be on par with the upcoming generation of server products. A huge overkill for many of us unless your name is e.g. Hans Zimmer.

(FYI I use both PC and Apple products myself)

I wouldn't expect any current MacBook or windows laptop can handle this, but maybe the next generation will also finally be able to.

Why choose just one? Intel NUCs are plenty inexpensive enough (I use a NUC11 with Intel Tiger Lake-U CPU, running Windows 10) and, if you need to do any work where the device must be dead silent, the Apple Silicon-based MacBook Pro or Air devices are really the ONLY way to go.

Unpopular opinion: I am not a fan of single- or sole-platform applications and I would avoid them like the plague, though the Apple GarageBand / Emagic Logic Pro nexus is pretty solid. Anything you buy ought to be able to run on macOS and/or Windows (and/or Linux if you're lucky); it's how modern developers hedge their risk.

If you don’t mind your software just no longer working the next time you upgrade your OS, enjoy paying about double for the hardware, and don’t have a problem with a smaller choice of software, go for a Mac. I abandoned Mac for computers when they moved to Intel chips and Native Instruments dragged their heals forever to move their software to the new Intel based Macs. It’s fine. I’ve got their iPhone, iPad Pro, an old MacBook Air I turned into a Chromebook, Apple TV, Apple Watch. In a closet I have a Mac Mini, MacBook, MacBook Air (that I turned into a Chrome Book) and my wife’s old iMac. She’s got some really big modern MacBook Pro that’s as heavy as cast iron skillet. I just don’t think they’re a great computer company any more.

Mac or PC? Anachronistic POV

In 2022, you can buy a refurbished macbook -50% off retail from backmarket, install bootcamp on it (microsoft even lets you download and install windows 10 on it for free, although you will need to enter a legit licence key for it eventually) and use windows on a very decent hardware, if that's what you want.

The way I see it, mac vs pc wars are at a ceasefire right now..

…..

For a new laptop, macs are currently a better choice because the far better power/efficiency ratio of apple silicon (ARM). Windows ARM world is all a bit half baked right now. If you don’t mind a lot of heat and associated fan noise and aren’t so worried about battery life then there are still options for decent Windows based laptops running x86 chips that will do a decent job. The current generation of Macs also have genuinely great sounding on board DACs/headphone amps, plugging a pair of HD600s into any Windows laptop integrated sound simply isn’t going to sound as good, and good luck finding 96k support. The Mac studio is also a great option for something compact, quiet and powerful outside of the laptop form factor that doesn’t really have a current Windows equivalent. So hardware wise, the current generation of macs have some real strengths over typical windows off the shelf options. But the Mac ecosystem has no answer at all to Windows/x86 systems if you want to self build and get the best power to price performance, or just build the most powerful rig you can.

Software wise, I find core audio on Mac OS to be more straightforward than working with audio devices on Windows, especially when working with multiple devices. Otherwise you can get the job done in either platform. Mac OS is still way more complete than Windows out of the box, things like migration assistant for setting up a new machine or time machine for backups are built in and slickly implemented. You need to do more work from researching to installation and configuring to get equivalent functionality on Windows. Plus you get all the productivity tools like spreadsheets, word processors and the like, a surprisingly capable DAW in the shape of Garage Band, and much nicer video editing than the Windows equivalent. If you don’t use any of that stuff though, either because you prefer 3rd party offerings, or just don’t need it, it’s irrelevant.

Amiga every time.

Can't run Pro 24 and doesn't have built in MIDI ports - Atari ST for the win.

Not true - I made a million (or just about) pieces of music on Pro 24 on my Amiga 500 back in the day.

Pros: Mac
Noobs: PC

IF you build it yourself, as you indicated, I'm pretty sure you can find a motherboard with sound as good as a Mac. Or possibly better. Also, the PC ecosystem evolves, whereas the Mac ecosystem jumps forward when Apple wants to milk more money from customers - the jumps tend to be larger, but not always.

You mention things built into the OS. Well... Apple was never sued to prevent that. Microsoft was. The things you mentioned being built in are things I usually avoid, because I'd rather be the one to choose what I want to use - this is one reason I prefer Windows: I'm in control, not Apple. All those kinds of things are available for free for Windows, as well. But you do have to know where to look. It puts some of the responsibility on the user rather than on the company.

Working with multiple devices is OK on a Mac - totally usable, unlike on Windows. But, from what I've read, even on a Mac it isn't great, though at least you can do it (though it's not super easy to set up it's not bad). I've only ever added my iPhone as an additional audio source/destination.

Mac laptops are impressive because they're so cool and quiet vs Intel/AMD based. My wife has one for personal use and one for work. I don't really use laptops, though I have an MBP (Intel) from work, since I've been working from home for several years.

Anyway, not disagreeing, just expanding on what you said.

The main advantage to Mac is Logic, and all the stock plug-ins it includes.

The disadvantages to Mac are higher hardware costs, much more limited upgrade options, and Apple's near-contempt for backwards compatibility, which means that every OS update and change to hardware architecture *will* break a whole bunch of stuff, both software and hardware. Some of those things won't get updated for years, some of them won't ever be updated or fixed, and will effectively disappear as they won't work on newer machines. This will likely be a major headache if you use a lot of third-party plug-ins and/or like to revisit projects you were working on in previous years.

I use Logic, but for a terrible reason: it's what I've always used. I don't have the time or motivation to learn a whole new DAW and workflow at this point in my life, and some of Logic's internal instruments have become integral to my overall sound. But if I were younger or starting out today, I'd probably pick a cross-platform DAW and use a Windows machine.

I don't know, seems a little short sighted to me. The new Apple laptops are simply incredible. Totally silent (a big deal in music production) and tremendous amounts of CPU power in next to nothing TDP and power envelopes. What's the M1 something like 20 watts of total system power? Run as many Diva instances as you need at 32 buffer. Less than a thousand dollars. Where was that in 2020 when Intel kept the market artificially limited with CPUs that ran in spec, according to them, at 99 degrees celsius? The little M1 air that launched back in Oct 2020 was on par performance wise with our then brand new i7 2020 iMac while operating at 18 watts system power at load. If that isn't a forward thinking and execution then I don't know what is.

The unified memory architecture design is particularly forward thinking again and results in near zero latency during general usage. Everything you want to do on these new Apple laptops happens the moment you click the button. Less copying memory around as well saves you physical memory space. Want to launch 50 apps at once and have them load at once? No problem.

Then there's the most often complained about thing while simultaneously being least understood; the fully integrated approach. There are genuine, tangible, empirical advantages to a fully integrated approach that Apple get criticized about. Just like there are benefits to the modular approach that you get with PCs. This isn't disputed in computer sciences but endlessly complained about here.

Then there's the OS. That's a preference thing but Core Audio is objectively better than the ASIO mess you have to deal with in the Windows world. And again, throughout the stack everything is fully integrated. The experience is more or less seamless.



As for the cost well I don't know. This: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G...66fa4fdcee21e4

...is an absolute beast of a machine. You can do anything with it, it's silent and again it sips power. Need to put in a 10 hour heavy day in the studio with it on battery power? No problem. For $2600. Uncharacteristically good value I would argue.

I just don't think you thought this last sentence through mate. M1 is a very forward thinking design with lots of benefits if you're into music. They hit it out of the park with these and especially for music.

… if you use a laptop.

True. The MBPs are pretty chunky, though.

<moderator message - to prevent flamewars we have some rules about mac vs. pc threads. Please see rule of acquisition #9 here. But, since your goal is to find out which computer system is best suited for music procuction, I'll edit the title, and move the thread. Everyone, please note, this is about the best laptop to get, doesn't matter which. >