So I decided to hold back building a studio. Finished renovating the house, wiring the entire house with CAT 6. Currently using the house as my resident. I got a small studio nearby so that the business is still running.
My decision to hold of is for the exact reasons I started this thread. This project is motivated by two things, as a place of business but more importantly a personal creative space.
The technology has developed and made several advancements. AVB seems to have resurrected with the support of Presonus. They just anounced new AVB products which include a POE AVB Switch, 16Ch and 24Ch Mixers with moving faders (I already posted about the 32 Ch one), today news of remove boxes have emerged. It is great to see Presonus join MOTU in support for AVB.
Focusrite has also announced several Dante enabled products, the Red Range and the RedNet Range.
RME who are pushing MADI but there are other players here like Antelope Audio.

Then there is AES67. The broadcast world has adopted AES67 for the Audio part of their move to IP. SMPTE 2110 uses AES67 to carry audio.

The playing field is not yet even but the picture is getting clearer.

Ravenna is seeing much wider adoption and with Merging's open (and currently free) ANEMAN software, interoperability between certain manufacturers (such as Digigram, WardBeck, ArchWave, DirectOut, Neumann, Genelec, amongst others) is now possible.

A future (paid?) version of ANEMAN will provide NMOS support, which will broaden the scope of not only open solutions and interoperability, but also with mixed media with SMPTE 2110.

All Dante-based units, except for one (Digital Audio Denmark AX32) have been taken out of service, with the entire facility now Ravenna-based (although MADI is still used for certain last meter connections with certain "legacy" I/O cards).

AVB simply isn't an option and isn't nearly as flexible as Ravenna, neither is Dante.

Though I agree AVB can't do what Dante or Ravenna can, I think Dante isn't going anywhere. It already has widespread support by heavy-hitting manufacturers of live sound gear including many installs, as well as the broadcast world.

If AES67 truly makes Dante and Ravenna interoperable and it's not too complicated to implement in real life, then it won't matter which path you choose between the two. Toss RedNet in that category too. AES67-FAQ | Media Networking Alliance

The only format here that can't 'talk' to these will be AVB. It bums me out to see Presonus pick it up, adding fuel to the a potential format war akin to VHS vs Beta (if you're old enough). We all lose when there are competing formats without a standard to unify or at least connect them.

This is not entirely correct. While it is expensive it is pretty easy to talk between AVB and the other formats. Just depends on the scale of the project as to whether it is worth it or not.

totally agree with the rest of your comments. Dante is here for a while. Why Presonus chose AVB is a mystery for sure, but then they have made several product development decisions that are head-scratchers. they do always seem to come around eventually so we'll see.

Cheers,
Brock

Well here's to hoping they straighten out.

For the record, you can exchange audio between many different formats. Unlike the old adage "Good, easy or cheap - pick any two," it will either be cheap or easy to do so.

Unless one works:
- at LPCM rates other than 48kHz
- with native DSD rates (up to DSD512)
- with Linux-based audio workstations and video systems

or require:
- latencies lower than 2.99ms
- 128+ channels in a native software driver
- sending of MIDI over the same CAT6 or Fiber cabling
- sending Timecode such as LTC over the same CAT6 or Fiber cabling
- send video ancillary metadata over the same CAT6 or Fiber cabling
- sending of simultaneous Dolby E streams

then neither Dante, RedNet or AES67 are functional solutions, and interoperability is not a reality.
Ravenna ticks all of those boxes.

Hey to be clear I'm a big proponent of Ravenna. I installed and have used a medium-scale fully-Ravenna-based system for four years. We were early adopters and have found the system to be rock solid, so much so that we cut MADI out of the equation which was initially there as a backup.

What I don't see is Dante going away. To my perception, it is in more widespread use than Ravenna, and continues to pick up steam. RedNet (with Dante backbone) is also doing well. Perhaps those working on the AES67 standards will help these formats converge, keeping the best of both worlds, rather than dividing everyone up. That might be the optimist in me, however.

Dante isn't going anywhere for a while

AVB is an open standard for the Data Link Layer 2 for Ethernet. Layer 2 is by far the most complicated Layer.

AES 67 is an open standard for the Network Layer 3 for IP.

SMPTE ST 2110 is an open standard for broadcasting and 3 main parts was approved at this year's IBC.
SMPTE ST 2110-10/-20/-30 — addressing system concerns and uncompressed video and audio streams — are now approved standards
SMPTE ST 2110-40 — concerning metadata such as captions, subtitles, active format description, time codes, dynamic range, and more — is presently undergoing final committee draft ballot and is anticipated to be published before the end of 2017 or early in 2018.
SMPTE ST 2110-21 — specifying traffic shaping and delivery timing of uncompressed video — is presently in the comment resolution phase of the final committee draft text. The SMPTE standards committee is now resolving final comments before conducting the final ballot (draft publication) to bring ST 2110-21 to standard status. This document is anticipated to be published before the end of 2017 or early in 2018.
Additional portions of the standards suite, such as support for compressed audio and video, will follow a similar process and will likely be published in time for the 2018 NAB Show.

SMPTE ST 2110 uses existing Transport Layer 4 and Network Layer 3 Protocol standards UDP/IP.

AVB can implement and work with all the higher level open standards through another open standard called IEEE 1733 which also defines use of Layer 4 and Layer 3 Protocols.

There is a company called Coveloz that was bought by Ross Video this year that has demonstrated how streams from SMPTE ST 2110 can be passed through AVB.

Unlike Bluyray vs HD DVD or BetaMax vs VHS, these Media Over IP standards have coexisted for a good while and thanks to AES 67 they will continue to coexist much better now that interoperability is possible. There is really no extinction imminent. The competitive nature of the industry presently is great for as regardless preference to Ravenna, Dante, AVB, LiveWire, QLan, Waves SoundGrid, AES 67 or SMPTE ST 2110.

I finally managed to finish the project. The system is made of 3 independent studios. Studio C shown below is more for live band rehearsals and recording and has no booth. Studio A and B both have recording booths with a window view of the control room. In Studio C I use a Presonus StudioLive 32. Studio A and B both have a MOTU 1248 connected to an Allen&Heath analogue console and a Mackie analogue console. The Presonus StudioLive 32 Nd both MOTUs are connected to a MOTU AVB switch. As is a wireless router. I use an iPad Pro to control and set up different routing options. It is cool to be able to use all the Studios together or separately depending on the project.

This week I will be taking the Presonus StudioLive 32 and the MOTU 1248s for a live recording concert event. I’ll be using the MOTUs as digital stage boxes with all the mixing and effects going through the SL32. I tested it using 100 meter/300ft CAT6 cables (as digital snakes) that I bought and made myself. I also have cabling left over (about 200 meters) so will want to check exactly what limitations in cable length exists. I’m only recording and mixing 24 channels of audio.


Studio C - Antioch Studios



Studio A - SubSahara Studios

I have been using a Presonus StudioLive 32 FOH and a MOTU 1248 AVB as a stage box. I kept running out of I/O so I'm in the market for a high channel count AVB audio interface.
I considered several other boxes from Presonus and MOTU then a few weeks ago I ran into the RME M-32 Pro. The series has two 1U boxes one handle Analog to Digital conversion (AD) and the other Digital to Analog conversion (DA) both with support for all the 32 channels at 192kHz on AVB.







I was really excited about these until I saw their prices. Ouch!

Over £3000.

ProTools Carbon

AVB Audio Interface with built in DSP.



I was hoping for a MOTU AVB type which gives the option of Thunderbolt, USB and AVB.

Dual USB-C (Thunderbolt 4, USB4) and Dual AVB would make it universal.

Still a very good win for AVB.

I was told Presous series III mixers and Stageboxes can be used as audio i/o instead of using the dreaded USB connection. But I read that it's only Mac's that has support for AVB build in to the system

Is that old news?

According to what I have read it's hit or miss if you can find a 10Gbit NIC that has driver software to support AVB on Windows

I was really hoping to be able to use either a Presonus StudioLive Series III 32R or 32SC. Without having to switch to Apple

The idea was really to use the 32R as Mixer for the band + VST Software inputs from a mini PC in the rack for keyboard sounds and have the ability to record both live and in the studio thru it. Actually did ask Presonus about this and got a "yes" its possible to use it as audio interface. Just want to be sure before actually buying the hardware that it will work on a reasonable new PC

I have been using a the original Presonus StudioLive 32 and MOTU 1248 AVB.
Yes you can get AVB to work with Windows OS but it is not as effortless as using Mac OS.

There is also a Thunderbolt Pro Dock from OWC that supports 10G AVB on both Windows and Mac.