exactly what he said.nothing to add thanks

I like that point. I guess there's no harm in compressing on one take and not on the other - even more choice in the end.

you guys are pushing me over the edge here.

Compressing at tracking and mixing effectively doubles your comp arsenal. i.e., you have a pair of 176's, use 1 for bass direct, 1 for bass mic during tracking, then you could use the pair of 176's on the mix buss, or other tracks, etc.

The safe way is to not compress during tracking, as you can't really undo it. Yet you might be forced to bounce through the converters again.

Tape was the worlds fastest compressor for all tracks.

Anyone use the Retro's for heavy metal or new metal music. Like to hear some comments. All the best, thanks.

Figured I'd try bumping this thread before starting one of my own.

All the enthusiasm for the Retro 176 has me very interested, especially when folks mention how flexible it is, in addition to having lots of color. My situation is that we use an outside mixer for our band stuff, but I mix my own stuff in the box. Either way, I like to go for the sounds as much as possible while tracking (rock and pop stuff, modern sounding but with 70s rock roots). In particular I track vocals, bass, and acoustic guitars with compression on the way in. I've been using a Distressor, and I like it, but often feel that I'm lacking fatness and 3 dimensionality that might come with a transformer and tubes based unit (preamp is Great River NV).

Sounds like Shirk, Greg, Roundbadge, and others are using the 176 for a lot. What if you only had one tracking compressor to complement the Distressor? Would the 176 be your first choice? I'd been considering getting either an LA2A, Manley Elop, or CL1B. The 176 sounds pretty dreamy, yet it seems that vocals are the main thing (other than mix bus) that people talk most about, and most folks who have them don't HAVE to use them on everything. What if you did? Would the 176 be it, or would you suggest something else? Thanks for your time.

No, really. Could one (or more) of the 176 fans weigh in on this? Consider this a "bump" to my above posted question. Thanks!

You can cover a lot of ground between a Retro 176 and a Distressor - I think an excellent combo... thumbsup

Tell me about the asymmetry switch..


is it a 3 position switch?

-bb

Thanks for the input Tommy!

I´m thinking of selling my LA2A (UA reissue) to buy an Retro 176 for more options. I want a tube compressor to work on everything I throw at itheh hehe allmost... The LA2A just doesent do it for me with one setting. On vocals... YES! but drums, snares, Kicks... NO

For you who have experience with both La2a and 176, wich one of them has most colour and tubey tone? I WANT COLOUR! and I defenitely don´t want to step down to anything cleaner.
I love using the LA2A for it´s sound when overdriving the output on OH with just 2-3 db compression. That cracking sound is just magic. Can you get nice distortion when overdriving the 176?

This is my second post on GZ. wohoo! looking forward to see someone answer with their GZ wisdom

Best regards
/Gaorinath

The 176 imparts more colour.

This thread has been quiet for a while but I'm wondering if anyone, ahem...Greg, could chime in with some advise. I have the Sta on loan right now and need to make a decision. I have two options. Keep the Sta and get a 176 as well or send the Sta back and get two 176's which would give me the ability to have them on the mix bus.
I know that it seems like apples and oranges but essentially, I find that for locking a part into the mix and keeping it huge and solid, the Sta is incredible.
I feel from listening to some clips that the 176 adds a lot more of a recognizable compression character.
How much do I gain by having the 176's on the mix bus as opposed to a plug like The Glue.
Ok. Now I've confused myself.
Oh boy.
For reference, I am a producer/mixer and I tend to work on music in the , Joe Henry type of style sonically.

See if Vintage King or whomever can let you audition the units - it's the only way to really tell if it's for you.

Yup. Thanks Greg. I know that that is the only way to really do it. Unfortunately, there's nothing close by, shipping to demo
Stuff gets expensive fast, but I guess it's less expensive than spending a couple of months rent on the wrong piece of gear.
There needs to be gear Psychics.
'you were born under the sign of Saggitarius with an Aquarius moon. You should get the Sta-Level' ha.
BTW. I really enjoyed your interview with Pensado. Go team Canada.

Wow, over three years since I posted in this thread, and a lot of mixes. I'm after a different mix now with little compression and more dynamics, and I'm never using 176's on the mix bus any more. Usually the mix bus is a TC Phoenix Master compressor with no compression (just getting the wonderful depth from the tubes), then limiting with Ozone 5. If I decide I want compression/color on the mix, I will sometimes put a 2500 in front of the Phoenix. Will I be doing this next year..........?

Anyway, if I were faced with your choice, I wouldn't let go of the Sta Level (and I haven't). You are right on, if you want the vocals or lead guitar right up front and solid as a rock, the Sta Level can't be beat.

Hi Mike.
Thanks for the input.
I am curious.
Did you find the 176's too heavy handed or coloured.
I am looking for something that I can hit that will take me out of the box and open up my mixes and add depth...duh, aren't we all, but yes, that is my quest.

I know that trying to use words to describe these things can be difficult and to some degree pointless but I am wondering if you could try to give me an idea on the general character that 176's impart on the 2mix as opposed to, let's say, what you are using now.

The 176's can give you old school vibe if that is what you are after. Roundbadge has described it pretty well. If you want to "open up my mixes and add depth", then that is a little different objective. I am using the Phoenix compressor for a finishing touch of this, without adding a lot of color. It all comes down to what you are after.

I'm with Greg, I'd give Vintage King a call and get a demo to try. This is the only way you'll be sure. VK has been selling Phil Moore's gear since he shipped his first one and they routinely ship demo's. Or if you have another dealer who'll do it, great. With the 176, you'll know pretty quickly if it gives you what you are after.........it is not real subtle and it will add a distinct flavor that you need to be sure you like.

I love the original UA 175. It's the go to for vocals. I think it's similar to the 176?

I have a pair of 176s. They are nice but they wouldn't be my first choice for mix bus. I listened to a couple of Joe Henry clips on iTunes and I think you would get closer with something like a Thermionic Phoenix on the mix bus (which sounds definitively better than any plugin).

I also have a pair of Retro Sta Levels. Nothing can take a source and pin it right up front quite like the Sta, not even the 176. Both are great compressors though. If I were you I would try to demo a 176 and a Phoenix alongside your Sta Level, then I would pick 2 of the three. Should be about the same cash outlay as 2 x 176's. I'm guessing you'll take the Phoenix and one of the others.

Of course right after I posted I went to Retro's website only to see the first ad on their homepage features Joe Henry with this quote: "I have an original Gates Sta-Level compressor, but it takes second place to my new Retro version. I find myself turning to it for all of the elements that need to be both nuanced and dynamic: vocals, upright bass, bent horns and broken drums...things with the most unique character and complexion. I would swap out half of my rack for a few more of these." So there you go! Keep the Sta.

Then you'd probably want to look at Ryan Freeland's equipment for reference. I believe he uses a Smart C1 on the mixbus (may be using the Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor alternatively, or more recently), and does have a couple of Retro 176's that he uses, but I don't think ever on the bus. Ryan is one of the greatest engineers out there!

...is there a reason you guys keep giving out state secrets?

Tinker, Tailor, Mixer, Spy.

I mean Sta secrets...

Well, as of now, I have the Sta-Level and a 176.
They are both bloody amazing, no doubt about it.
I thought that there would be a lot of redundancy between the two units but that's not the case at all. Totally different units and I can't imagine working without either one now.
Dang!

I have been experimenting with running one side at a time through the 176 to simulate two on the mix bus.

Big and fat and open.

This is, of course, a less than ideal workflow, but I have to say that so far, I am pretty goosed with how it sounds. Anyone work this way? I would leave the vocal out of the chain to guarantee centre image there.

A friend recommended that that I run it as a 3 bus. I could put the vocal, bass and kick through the Sta-level for my mono centre bus and have a stereo bus with the two 176's to take care of the sides. (maybe a little Clariphonic for good luck)

Insanity?
Yes.
A possible disaster?
For sure.
Not recommended?
Uh huh.
Am I gonna do it.
F%*k yah!!!

So, the next important question is, Does anyone know how well these units hold up outdoors? I'm definitely not going to be able to pay rent after this so I need to make sure that these puppies are waterproof.

Your friend is on to something there methinks. Don;t think separate left right processing will get you there, but hey maybe it's killer...I just tend towards mixing into a compressor as opposed to compressing a mix after...

Enjoyed that, nice one.

well, I went with the Pendulum OCL-2.
...Put some sexy tubes in it.

Retro 176 into Sta on the mono bus
Pendulum on the sides with a sprinkle of Clariphonic
Hughes AK-100 on the outer edges of reverb.
Ummmm.....

Wake up, Thread.
I am very likely ready to pull the plug on a pair of 176's

Am I making a mistake? Will I be the one guy on earth that hates them??

help.

I have a pair of 176s I regularly use on the buss. Actually they are not used anywhere else... its either the buss or switched off. They are very colored but on the right stuff they are perfect. By right stuff in my opinion I mean acoustic organic material... they tend to boost highs in a velvety way while dipping a bit the low mids giving you a classic buss Eq curve... they do add magic.

I had a STA for a few years I just traded for a CL1B. It was cool but I wasn't using it much... I always found other comps I liked better for any given situation ... I also had a Phoenix which lasted about a couple years before I realized I didn't like it on anything. Obviously we all hear things differently