I had a set of the ATC Mk1 to try out in my studio for awhile. While I found they sounded pretty incredible, I did have some trouble in the lower treble area, where I found a dip around the 4-5k range which made my work difficult to judge as I work with metal, and that's a crucial range for distorted guitars. These were a demo deal (aka "used") so it could have been the ferrofluid tweeter needing to be replaced, the Mk1's could have been 15+ years old, I couldn't tell.
I've been looking at other monitors that might work for me, and I keep running across the Neumann KH310's, and am wondering if anyone's had the oppurtunity to compare these two, especially with hard rock/metal? If I went with the Neumann's it would save me quite a bit that I could put on some hardware I've been looking at, so that is quite attractive.

This is exact comparison has been done numerous times over the years, def try a search as there's some really good discussions both here and on Audio Science Review. I compared them both although not with metal. You're gonna need to hear the Neumann's to make your decision but here's a quick summary:

Most folks agree that the KH310 is a fully capable 3-way with exceptional specs that perform well above their price range. They have a very neutral/natural tonality and they can be somewhat forgiving in less than ideal rooms. They can take a while to learn and also are not the most powerful. If you can swing the KH750 subs it apparently levels them up even further, but they're always gonna read a bit mellower if not darker than ATC.

The SCM25a has that loyal ATC fanbase and there aren't many that have tried both that prefer the KH, but they do exist! Obviously the ATC midrange (and street cred) is pretty much unassailable so that's what you're paying the premium for. Also basically non-existent distortion unless they're dimed. They are a bit less forgiving in poorly treated rooms and bass extension doesn't go quite as low as the KH310 before rolling off, but they are still reasonably full range for the size.

If you're talking about mixing monitors, it might be a good idea to give a 2-way a try. I know a few engineers who actually switched to Amphion from 25A and 45A. I won't delve into the detailed differences between 2-way and 3-way monitors because that debate could go on forever, but one of the main drawback of 3-ways is having two crossover points. If you're sensitive to crossover points, a coaxial monitor like the Genelec 8331A might be better for you.

Thanks for your feedback. I mix and master my own projects, as well as I'm hoping to offer mastering services in the next year or so, so I'm looking for something that can cover all those bases.

I bought ATC 25 mki a month ago, my work flow has been way faster. I'd spend days fixing mixes that I can now do in a few hours. Never used the Neumanns.

Also considering the Genelec 8351B if anyone has any insight on those..

I was in the same boat 2 weeks ago. I plowed through 4-5 years of threads; this topic gets quite contentious. But hey, people are passionate, that’s good.

I’d been dreaming of KH310 for years, but when time came, I also entertained idea of SCM25, though now it would be Mark2’s and there are less people with experience on those. Both of these are well-respected and Class A/B.

I think if I only mixed music all day I might have gone ATC, but I do a lot of Sound Design and Electronic Music for work, that’s my main thing. These are all great speakers, and it’s very personal preference.

So I’m quite shocked myself that today I’m sitting here with a pair of 8351B’s. On paper, they’re Class D, they have extra AD/DA conversion, they have latency - so initially I refused to go this route. But in reality, I admit they sound fantastic, and are very different from Genelec 8040’s, which were too boomy and made everything sound pleasant.

The GLM software has made a believer out of me. Subtle corrections, but bypassing it and back really shows the difference. I am currently debating whether to go up to the 8361A’s.

For all monitors I believe there’s a period for learning them, but I will say the 8351B’s don’t make everything sound good. I’ve already had the, “whoa that sound is in this song” moment, like many people have described. It’s the dynamics on certain crescendos in music that really gets me about this monitor. Wide image and detail is all true, but it’s the dynamics that were a surprise.

Personally, I struggled to mix on the Neumann’s I find the mids too soft and forgiving, too many mix issues get missed.

I switched to ATC 25’s and translation is reliable and predictable.

The mid driver on the 25’s is brutal. Your mix is either spot on or the 25’s scream at you to fix it!

For me, the most essential studio purchase I’ve ever made.

Thanks, are you using the 25 Mk1 or Mk2?

Like I said in the original post i've tried the Mk1 and they didn't work for me, but from everything I've read the new tweeters on the Mk2 are an improvement. I guess I'm searching for a validation in spending less money than ATC's haha, but I may need to just bite the bullet. In my room the bass was discernible on the Mk1's but I would definitely need a small sub to know what's really happening down there, so I have to factor in that cost as well.

I’m on Mk1’s

I’m in the camp that actually prefers the MK1 tweeter.

ATC only made a mk2 because the OEM mk1 tweeter went out of production.

I bought 4 of them to store in the unlikely case of a tweeter failure

In my 3.5m by 4.5m treated room I have enough bass for my ears - a sub would cause more issues than being helpful.

If the 25’s don’t work for you - fair enough!

There’s a huge amount of choice out there.
I personally don’t emotionally connect with digital DSP monitors - there’s something missing for me.

ATC use classic traditional engineering solutions and it makes for the kind of tool that I can connect with, I guess I’m a bit old school in that respect.

You have to hear them. The two brands have a different presentation.

I agree, I'd rather not have to resort to DSP. I tried Sonarworks on my headphones and didn't like it at all. Sounded much more natural without it.

In the end that's what it will take, I'm just trying to make as informed a decision as possible. I don't like buying monitors and going through the hassle of returning them (buyer has to pay return shipping on the monitors, which was $200 for the ATC's). So short of driving 8 hours to Nashville to Vintage King, I'm stuck just researching for now. I'm hoping my next purchase will be the last one for many years.

Did a shootout of just about every monitor in that 5-12K USD price range about this time last year.

Went PMC 6-2s and am still very happy with the decision.

Thanks, I will definitely look into those.

I suppse I should also take a look at the ATC SCM20A Mk2's.

KH310s are great monitors for the money, but I'll second what has been said here that I often find they're kind of 'soft' sounding and I've missed harshness/brashness at times with them. Also sibilance and pokey cymbal frequencies tend to slip through the net.

They measure very well on paper, although I'd be a little careful with the low-low end as unless your room is well trapped down to 30 Hz it has a tendency to get pretty wild and out of control.

The higher frequency (and gentler) roll-off of the SCM25 tends to work better in a lot of rooms IMO.

Sonarworks sucks, but a digital crossover and Sonarworks are totally different animals.

I Own the Kh310s and have used the ATC quite a bit at the studio I worked for. I would say for rock I would use the ATC but you really cant go wrong with either.

Haha, countless of amazing sounding records have been mixed with NS10 and UREI.

If the budget is limited, buying less expensive speakers and invest more for the room would always be a smarter option.

I've decided to try the SCM20 Mk2, they may just be what I was missing with the 25mk1. I'll also try them with a 7" compact sub I can switch on and off. The 20's might sound better in my small room with their sealed design. Thanks for everyone's input. Hopefully I'll have them later in the week.

NS 10s are good but still gonna have bass issues

I was on 0300’s for 20 years and then 310 for a while and they’re great for half the price but a good pair of ATC 25a’s are so much quicker to mix on. I’ll be on ATC for the foreseeable future.

I own 310s and am very familiar with SCM25As. Currently own 310s.

The 310s are better in some ways (they're way more natural sounding in the highs and they don't have that exaggerated thumpy 80hz thing), plus they're more forgiving in less-than-optimal rooms because of their much better dispersion control) but they run out of steam so fast without a sub. They're a sealed box with tiny internal volume with crazy LF extension (via Linkwitz Transform), so distortion goes through the roof when pushed with bassy material. They get boxy and unpleasant around 400hz from all that IMD.

Neumann I think would do well to run the mid driver more open (maybe more like 450hz-2.5-3k); hopefully, the new version of it (supposedly coming next year) will have a lower distortion bass driver.

As far as ATC, the mid dome surely does a thing. The Mk1's tweeter is straight garbage though, the Neumanns sound way better up top. I've yet to hear the MK2s. Don't like the thumpy 80hz port thing. Plug the port and run them with a sub. They need more side wall absorption than the Neumanns as they are less uniform off-axis (see Toole's writing on this, in more reflective spaces off-axis behavior matters a lot).

Interestingly, I prefer the OEM tweeter on my 25's MK1 to the new ATC tweeter on the MK2's - it's an excellent presentation for my ears for really long sessions and the translation has been perfect for me.

ATC designed the 25's around the Vifa tweeter and it does very little work on the 25's due to the super wide bandwidth of the incredible ATC mid driver - the real star of the ATC marquee.

The tweeter on the 310's is good too, I personally find the 310's mids way too soft to be useful for critical tracking and mixing - the bass driver isn't too bad though.

Except the Atc don't have the exaggerated thumpy thing and the mki tweeter isn't straight garbage. They're great speakers, you dunno what you're talking about.

Yes, the mid dome is run pretty close to wide open on all ATCs - that's a good thing, that dome is special... Though it has some unfortunate breakup behavior not too far above the passband with their current crossovers. If they were to move from 3.5k to 3k, the problem would be dealt with.

They absolutely do have it (it's the port, it goes away if you plug them), and that tweeter is a $20 in small quantities part with very bad magnitude response. The top end on the Mk1s does not sound great. I would bet good money that the Mk2s are substantially better sounding in the top couple of octaves.

Not to my ears.

I honestly prefer the OEM Vifa to the new ATC proprietary tweeter speaking specifically about the 25’s though.

See not everything has to be expensive

But I only make music with my 25’s so I’m going on personal preference, I’ve not someone who would look at any kind of written read out or chart.

It’s all by ear in my case.

Does it work and get the job done quickly, is it reliable, does it translate perfectly - boxes ticked.

But I’m sure your right that technically the new ATC tweeter specs better and I do think it sounds great on the 50’s.

I’ve put the difference down to the 25’s we’re designed around the Vifa tweeter.

Just show us the measurements.

I'd say this, KH310s have a real reputation for being too forgiving to issues up high, things like sibilance or harsh transients/cymbal frequencies. Same with the KH120, 150 etc. Hard to explain, because I also often find them a little fatiguing up in the top end.

Everyone I know who's changed from 310s up to ATCs (including 25s) has found it easier to both hear and deal with these issues when coming from the Neumanns.
This also lines up with my own experiences having worked extensively on both.

The original SCM 25 tweeter (it was made by Vifa) is actually a good sounding driver. It's been used in many other well reputed speakers. The ATC tweeter is better yes, but the difference isn't as big as you think.


BTW I've attached a graph to this post explaining the typical trajectory of how interested people looking for clear answers to relatively simple questions online are.

Neumann KH are garbage because you use them