Hey,

Just wanted to ask if any of you have compared these microphones for recording (upright) piano.

I have one 4038 already so one more would save some $$ but the R88 does look special.. has anyone found the noise floor any better with the 88.

Thanks,
TJ

I have not noticed a noise floor with my R88. I have noticed my Stager Stereo SR2N kills the R88Mk1 - more gain, more reach, more detailed highs, easier to position and a better stereo image.

Not used the Coles, but I would imagine the ability to do a spaced pair on piano might be an advantage.

Thanks for the reply thats a great help.
Hadn't heard of the Stager Stereo, will check that out.

TJ

Coles wouldn’t be my first choice for upright piano, but I’ve used them there and they do the job. The R88 however I love on upright. In fact I love it on everything, I use it on everything all the time, one of my favorite mics ever.

I have R88 with TRP2 and find the noise floor very high. I’ve recorded grand piano (model D) with it a couple of times and on the quieter stuff I can hear the noise. I also like a tiny treble boost on it too, which clearly doesn’t help. The tone is great though. Wish I could get less noise from it though. The examples online of r88 made by AEA don’t appear to have the same noise I experience. TRP2 is a little noisier than the pres on my RME UFX+ too!

No, certainly no noise with the R88 stereo ribbon. I use it on piano with excellent results. The firm bass and sweet treble sound would be flattering to an upright. You could mic the upright from the back as an alternative to micing the top.

R88 is more sensitive than 4038.

R88 is an Blumlein pick up ONLY. Crossed figure-of-eight configuration.

When using 4038 you will also get an excellent sound but with less treble overtones. 4038 truly excellent but a less sparkle-y sound.

4038 can be used in a spaced configuration, as a xy stereo mic (using AEA xy stereo bar), or as Blumlein stereo mic (again, using AEA stereo bar.)

So different sounds and different configurations.

I choose the R88.

Both are super great. The R88 is stunning on Piano. I have cut a lot of very nice tracks with two 4038's though.

I think if you already have one 4038 the best move would be to grab another. Or for around the same amount of money you could get the stereo Stager ribbon and have the 4038 for a room mic. Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong with any of these choices.

Tough call but I like my Coles for uprights, and my R88 for grands. The Coles darken the sound and make it a little more rich. The R88 picks up what's there and delivers it to tape beautifully.

But I've used both in the opposite configurations with amazing results. Like I said, tough call. Can't go wrong either way!

Thank you so much for all your replies,
I was set on grabbing the extra Coles (and putting the leftover money towards something else.. but just found a b stock R88 for sale in a local shop so I think I will check that and can always return if I feel the second Coles would be better.

Appreciate you all!

Same consideration here. Buy a second 4038 with a Stereo Bar, or sell my Coles for an R88 Active. Main uses would be acoustic guitar and Grand Piano. Was also looking at SDCs like the Schoeps (MK21). What did you decide?

I have an R88 and a 4038 which I mostly use over the drums...

The two mics are just so different. I really want a second 4038 over my drumkit, but I'd never think of it as an either/or with the R88. The AEA mic is like my 'documentary' mic... it's realistic, never flashy, impeccable stereo picture and the classic ribbon immediacy and extended low end 'reality'. It's the most 'you are there' mic I have (especially paired with the AEA preamps), and brings a similar sense of unhyped honesty to a piano. The 4038 is darker, punchier, and does something magic to the mids which I imagine is a combo of the ribbon transient response and softer high end. 'Murky' sounds like a bad thing, but it's a special groovy 'old movie' kinda murkiness that really brings a mood to drums, much less 'real' than the R88, but that's sort of what I love about it and why I want another one.

So in true Gearslut fashion, I'd have to say the real answer is to get both. If you've already got one 4038, getting another is the shorter, cheaper path. Neither mic will disappoint... unless you want 'sparkle' from your piano, which a ribbon is never really gonna do. If you MUST choose, I think it comes to down to "mood & mojo" (4038) vs. The Real Thing.... or, if you like, 'film noir' vs. '3D immersive documentary experience".

Sorry. I used to be a copywriter. :-)

I think I'm going to get an R88 and RPQ2 preamp for room sounds or stereo captures of a source, and keep the single Coles 4038 for mono sources (acoustic guitar, mono piano, electric amp, mono overhead). That way I can blend and get the best of both worlds!

I have a pair of 4038's arriving soon, will be using mostly on reggae productions for OH's, upright piano, trombone and organ.

Also worth trying:

Use the 4038 as the sides of and MS setup. Use your best LDC tube in cart pattern as the center.

Good suggestion on mid side! Will try that!

If doing mid side with a 4038 and U67 for example, if I want to double the guitar at some point and pan the mono mics hard left and right, how do you use the side signal? Does it make sense to just keep on of the side signals and hard pan to the opposite side of the mono mic?

Mid side seems like a great idea for a solo acoustic, but once the arrangement gets going, where I may add a second guitar and other instruments, and pan the guitars, I’m wondering how to best utilize the technique.

4038's will be paired with the Thermionic Culture "Snow Petrel" soon here. Waiting for tube unit to arrive. "Snow Petrel" was designed in collaboration with Coles and Sowter transformer company.

Already a huge fan of 4038 sound. Used for brass, woodwinds, piano, perc. and as a universal studio mic.

Good then, good now.

Have you received the Snow Petrel yet? How is it working out for you? I recall you had some issues with Thermionic build quality some years back. Is the Snow Petrel working out for you? Any samples?

Going to get a second 4038 for grand piano, and looking for the perfect preamp to pair with them, so it seems the Snow Petrel is it.

Love the R88 but go with a pair of N8s. Same idea but more flexibility

I did receive the Snow Petrel last summer and have used it extensively with my Coles 4038 pair. I have never heard the Coles sound so rich and beautiful as with this mic amp.

That's the way it should be because the heavy duty designers involved in making the Snow Petrel design, Vic Keary from Thermionic, the head man at Sowter transformers, and the head tech at Air Studios, really know their stuff.

Up to 75 dB of gain is available. Sound is creamy and rich and very analog. There are NO solid state components anywhere in the Snow Petrel.

Expensive but very highly recommended. Acquisition of the Year.

So I’ve spent some time listening to R88 samples and Coles 4038 samples and the 4038 is more to my taste. I like character and the warmth. R88 is natural and beautiful but there’s something about the 4038 that I just love.

I plan to use the two 4038s over the hammers on a grand piano as a spaced pair...the piano parts in the songs I’m tracking mainly reside in the lower register, to sit below the vocal range....so not much right hand above an octave above middle C.

If I use a Snow Petrel preamp, I can add some top end and cut some lows if it’s “too warm” sounding with the Coles...but might it be a good idea to have a third mic, towards the top of the piano to pick up more brightness and articulation? I could pan the 4038s L and R and then have this third mic centered, and bring it up the center under the vocal to add articulation if needed?

If so, what would be a good complimentary mic for this?

?
Are you talking the tail end of the piano? Close to the hammers is usually where you get brightness and articulation.

Mixing three close mics on a piano is asking for phase issues (unless, at a bare minimum, you heavily hpf.)

Got the idea from this article on one of my favorite piano players, Olafur Arnalds...love his sound.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/olafur-arnalds

4038s eq really well but not all eqs are created EQually. If you can pull off the three mic method I’d say a Schoeps with a mk21 or 22 capsule. Or just split the difference and do a pair of N8 (expect a month wait).

Maybe I missed it in that article but he's either using the 4038 pair or the KM84 pair on that piano. Both sets are in some fairly standard positions.

And then For Now I Am Winter: "We also have the piano, which is very close-miked. Like, the mics are almost touching the hammers. "
That would definitely give you articulation.

I see no reason to ruin the stereo picture with any center mic. It is not a good idea.

Have you heard the AEA RPQ or TRP Preamp? Wondering how it might compare to the Snow Petrel for use with ribbons. I love tubes so I'm leaning towards the Snow Petrel, though I may also pick up an AEA R88 and wondering if the R88 would be a better fit with the AEA preamp.

Yes, I have heard the Forssell designed AEA preamps. They are excellent designs and have the proper impedance for good freq. response from ribbon mics. I am also a big fan of AEA and I run R84's and a R88 MK II mic here. Wes Dooley is a great guy.

But I prefer the Thermionic Culture Snow Petrel by a wide margin in this case. It is custom designed for the Coles 4038 and all ribbon and condenser mics.

The tube component of the sound is, for me, a very important part of the sound.

The Snow Petrel is a super premium mic amp while the AEA TRP is a good but not custom design.

The Snow Petrel sounds much better than the AEA and that is all that matters to me. It has a sound that is more rich, with more harmonic content, and with better bass and more pleasant high freq. response.

The Snow Petrel sounds sweet and the AEA does not sound sweet.

Thank you so much. Just placed an order for a Snow Petrel! Glad to hear that it will work beautifully well with an R88 and other mics as well as the Coles.