Bot in the house!

To paraphrase Frodo's loyal friend Sam(-wise) in Lord Of The Rings...
Much of this is above my like and dislikes.

However if we're going to have certain "comments" on these various Master Mic makers... IMHO let's give them the benefit of the doubt
(and not make Waves .) I've personally met a couple of them in person. And they're all fine folks IMHO.
They're in a very tough business to say the least, and all Enthusiasts at heart.
And am looking forward to seeing them again in person, at the upcoming NAMM Show.
Chris
P.S. More later, as I'd like to share what little I know on 251's!

OK chatty Chessparov is gonna Bullet Point this...

1) Eric can make a Dead Ringer copy of the original/Vintage Brass Capsule.

I sang/tried his side by side with a Vintage Brass Capsule 414 right next to it. (Two Vintage 414's A/B'd that way).

2) Tim C's Capsule in the FLEA 12, sounded.
amazing too. That was years earlier than the Heiserman. I realize a time separation that long, isn't quite a direct shoot out. But impressive nonetheless.

3) Part of my time at NAMM, I plan to visit the
Beesneez Booth. Ben's BU67 has caused
me to have further direct respect of his
microphones. Not sure if his stuff is going
to be set up/available for testing out there.
But I hope so! Including his 251 style.
They're coming from a long way though.

4) Honestly, because the T-Funk is so expensive,
I feel like you could get something else for less.
I preferred the Heiserman/Campbell/Bock's.
(That I sang into)

5) I hope UA stays true to the original Bock 251,
another lovely mic.
Chris
P.S. My fave 251 reference on Male Vocals, are all the classic Tommy James hits on his personal one!

It depends whether someone wants an exact clone I suppose, or whether someone wants a great sounding 251 inspired microphone.

When the Soundelux 251 came out, I do not recall Bock stating that it was to be an identical clone at all, it is inspired for sure, and it is unique enough that someone might like it the best of all of them or at least a great option.

I actually liked the Heiserman H47 FET a bit more, than the 47 FET Reissue! (gasp).
Chris

Would love to address a few points in the post…
All of our backplates are made here in NC by a single
Guy. And he has been doing it for close to 10 years������
He is truly an artist with a lathe. The 4th generation hk12
Is an exact copy of a vintage deep dish ck12. We have even moved to the 1mm brass screws. Also the secondary back plate threads in. Just like the original. It is nothing close to the way Tim Campbell does it. Or at least used to? I can’t speak to his latest capsule. And regarding the body parts… we do have an open legal dispute. In the mean time we have moved all manufacturing back to NC and will no longer be doing anything other than that. Please understand I have zero interest getting in to the details on this forum.
And regarding your frequency chart.. like I mentioned earlier
We are currently on the 4th generation version of our hk12 and would be very interested to see what version you swept.
We have come a very long way regarding the sound and consistency of our HK12. I suggest you buy one test it out. Do your own sweep? If you don’t like it return it and I will happily sell it someone else.

Eric

That is quite likely.
I think the more airy sound you are describing in your mics is the desired spec. I could see why Dolly's owner didn't want to "correct" his mic though. It has a beautiful tone that really sounded great on my voice which is a little deeper and raspier, whereas on the female singer Eric's mic had just a smidge more of the open top end you are describing in your OG 251s and that sounded just a little more special on her.
If I am making a record I would be happy with either one!

That said, the two mics sounded WAY more similar than different and both were wonderful.
Eric absolutely nailed the 251 if you ask me.
I had it in my studio for about a month and it sounded great on everything I threw at it. I was particularly impressed by it's reach.
Reading your comments about how close the H251 sounded to your OGs further cements that in my head.

Cheers to Heiserman!

Or even the original. I've never thought there's anything sexy about the sound of a fet47.

Well you do know a leeeetle bit more than me JJ!

But I dug the original FET on Lou Rawls' "You'll Never Find". IMHO Lou's immense Resonance helped there.

Also am a huge Bon era fan of AC/DC!
Chris

I think it's a fet47 on Who Are You, as well. They aren't a bad mic at all. They just lack sex appeal. And if you listen side by side with a tube U47, what's missing is extremely apparent. But, their ability to handle SPL's and having the smooth response of a K47 capsule, makes them very handy in a lot of applications. Klaus can probably speak better to the issue of what is the cause. I'd also be curious to know if he ever made one sound as good as he's made U87's and 414EB's.

Also, the right voice, eq and compressor cam make an SM7 sound great on some vocals!

On the "Honeymoon" with my BU67.
Diggin' the traditional 67 style tone, along with Brimar Tube.
Chris
P.S. A close friend of mine... She sounds great on those Shure Unidynes-even 57/58!

A friend of mine who used to live/work in LA said he used a Klaus modified FET47 quite a bit out there and it is still to this day one of his favorite sounding mics.

Gee just wait till Klaus mods my Vintage MXL V69.
And the V69 KH is finally unleashed, after all these years.

You guys will never have heard anything like it!
(But somehow Klaus is always "busy" )
Look out all you 251's.

Chris

Those BU67's sound really good for vocals. I'd like a pair.

I agree, I don't get it either. The circuit must be wrong. They only work on Kick drums and bass cabs for me and there are cheap ones that work just as well.

Interesting. I have much to (surprise!) learn, on the FET 47.
Chris

Maybe not "great", but sometimes I like even a 58 to roughen up my voice.

Here I did the "Julian Krause" EQing of the 57/58...
To get it closer to a SM7.
Going through Air Mode.

Just another "one take" vocal, so take it easy (wasn't that a song-Hmm) on me!
Chris
P.S. Window squeaks C/O Audacity noise reduction. I left them in! Pure accident.

The FleA M49 is based off the Neumann M49B, so that makes perfect sense. I have 2 and adore them.
Can you clarify what you mean by modern Neumann capsules?
Have your 49b's had their capsules replaced?

With extraordinary circumstances, my FET47 can also serve as a vocal mic. But agree it's def not ideal.
Clients that are older with preexisting conditions like dysphagia or tiny holes in the upper palette can be captured effectively with a FET47, it's not ideal but when the client has physical limitations and still wants to track, the 47 can be an effective and efficient solution paired with some nice shelving eq's like the 1081 or 8801 rather than smearing the image with excessive destructive cuts just to get it over the line.
Also works well for modern young singers who push their tongue up towards upper palette as a type of technique that can produce a buttload of harshness. A lack of technique has become a technique ...a FET47 can deal with these voices and minimise giving vocal lessons at the mic.
But also it can serve as a cool option for a warm/husky smooth voice with great technique and self control, imho. Though I'd certainly want mic options for these types.
I completely agree that even in these circumstances, the cost effective clone options work just as well or better for near peanuts
As always though, ymmv

My 49b's are sequential, and I wanted to use them as a pair, but the original M7s were so wildly out of spec, and deteriorating. I replaced them with modern, sequentially numbered K49s.

Ah I see. How would the capsule replacements impact the value of the mics? I mean, on one hand they are modern Neumann capsules, on the other hand they are modern capsules.
I'm just curious, I don't mean to intimate that something as intrinsic to one's craft as their microphones would place investment return concern over the specific want for use of the microphones.
But surely those are very valuable microphones before the capsule replacement? And after?

My experience is that there is no penalty paid for maintaining a mic, as long as you use the correct parts. And since most people don’t know any better, buyers only care that it’s the right capsule, tube and transformer. People are more concerned about the sound being good, unlike vintage guitars, where replacing parts results in a hit to resale. And personally, I’d rather have a matched pair of K49s that will retain their sound, than having somebody reskin the M7s with questionable results, and then the sound changes in just a few years.

That's reassuring to hear and a very healthy perspective imo. I guess I did in fact initially draw comparison to buying and selling guitars, which I do with relative frequency, whereas mics I buy and keep with very few ever getting sold off..except for the truly awful cheap ones I read people talking up and curiosity just gets the best of me!
I can't imagine any scenario where I'd sell off my tube condensers and knock on wood I have not had to have any over hauled or repaired beyond manufacturer inspection.
I also have not gone down the very vintage path with tube mics either. This thread piqued my interests because I do want/need a 251 style microphone- it doesn't have to be an exact replica but something close. My business can't justify spending TFunk money on theirs and vintage seems a poor choice in my circumstance. Renting is my most pragmatic path but still, I would like something that fits the 251 vibe at my disposal. I'd sell off a few more guitars for the right 2nd hand or new mic. I'll keep following along and thanks for the sidebar on your 49's JJ, take care man

Trivia time-sorta.
Found a post by the late/great Sigma (Mike Tarsia).
Mike said ALL the Lou Rawls vocals at Philly International, we're done on the FET 47.
Not random-I think.*

Even on my lowly (due to the Funhouse mirror-like Circuit response) Warm 47jr...

It seems to sound "best" on a heavier vocal line.
(Or doing my Alvin/Chipmunk voice! )
Hey I got it new for $200.
You'll never find it for less.

So am guessing if the vocalist has this type of voice and/or is very sibilant, a 47 FET style can be a good pull.
Chris
*IIRC main vocal mics at PIR, were 67/87.

Chris I had no idea Mike died. I thought he was still relatively young..60's or so.

I totally get a Lou Rawls type voice on a FET47. Run through a DVC that could really sound great, or even a Neve box with an LA2a would be fantastic.
Thanks for this post dude

Just 64.
As you know, a great guy.
So funny too!

And an audio genius, like his Dad was.
RIP Joe and Mike.
Thanks for all the fantastic recordings.
Chris

It's remarkable that many that are so young do not realise how young 64 actually is.
What a very sad loss. His lectures were as entertaining as informative and his legacy behind the glass just astounding.
But even more poignant, he was always a really kind human, the real mark of a great person.
:-(

So back to the 251 topic..

Options over 3K US: (?)

Options under 3K US: (?)

I really want to go down this path. The Upton seems the clear favourite with US domestic engineers for a 251 replica over 3K. The cost of shipping and import taxes +GST makes this largely untenable for the international community.
The TFunk seems to be a hit or miss high dollar buy and again with shipping import duties GST and luxury item taxes, this becomes untenable for many who are also trying to run a business.
The Golden Age Premier GA251 mkII has not been mentioned, seems few US domestic professional engineers have one to comment on but the reviews that do exist, seem favourable if not encouraging.
Not sure what all options exist in this price point
I'm just skimming the top and lower tiers in hopes of this thread generating a comprehensive list above and below price points.
If have heard the Warm mics and would prefer that we exclude them from any compilation, upon hearing their mics, it's really hard for me to take them seriously as either a long or short term investment. I applaud the Warm money making scheme but it's products all sound like such a compromise there is no way I see in being able to responsively compare or compile them with the hand built manufacturers.

It would be cool if we could also include mics available to the international market or that are available to the international market.
If this has already been compiled in the thread, my apologies for asking. I'll read back through the thread as time permits.
Cheers

I'd say Upton v. Heisermann

Heiserman 251 has been, and is still unavailable.
I emailed them about a month ago about their 251, still no response.
Yes, the Upton seems the preferred 251 replica on the higher end of price points.
In Australia, pre ordered the Upton comes in at 7500$ AUD + the wait.
That amount and scenario is not very appealing to me.