Originally Posted by TS-12 ➡️

so these ELA m 251 mics being sold here , attached photo, are not the original vintage ELA m 251 ?

Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️

Wear and tear and serial number. Very rare that you'll get mint vintage mics to buy, and if you do, you're going to pay a ton and you also might not know what was substituted over the years unless the buyer discloses it. So many capsules have been changed over the years on the older mics.

Originally Posted by thismercifulfate ➡️

It’s pretty simple: If it’s made by Telefunken Elektroakoustic USA, it is a new mic - a clone.

Originally Posted by Thomas@canopy ➡️

I’ve been in a room with an akg designed 250 and a tele USA 251, they were pretty darn close to me and the other engineers in the room. But I guess my ears can’t smell the old wiring like some on this thread can.

For what it’s worth, my experience with the bock 251 was that it had a bigger bass extension to the original and the tele. If I’m not mistaken, that was by design. More smiley than the real thing.

Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️

Agree in spirit. But...
With the Bock (now UA) 251/Upton 251/upcoming Heiserman 251/et al...

There's just tremendous competition out there.
And all these are significantly le$$.
IMHO time for T-Funk to drop their prices accordingly.
Chris

Originally Posted by AB3 ➡️

The et al. can include the Flea - a fabulous mic maker and I believe they are using a Tim Campbell capsule!

Originally Posted by themiracle ➡️

If I were spending 67/251 money on a microphone, I would most certainly get them in my room for a demo... but I live in a city where such a thing is possible.

Beyond that, I would be hesitant to consider a Telefunken Elektroacoustik (USA) 251 myself, given its price, and the fact that it has little to nothing to do with the vintage mic of the same name, apart from the look, name and price.

I've never been comfortable with the way Tele USA appropriates the names of the big vintage mics (C12, ELAM 251, 47 & 48) given that they have no real connection to the legacy of these mics, nor the ability to fabricate the most critical components to the original specifications. Heck, if AKG can't make a CK12 today, how can Tele USA? They even call their capsule a CK12..!

Here is a snippet of the description of their u47 from the official website:

"The TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik recreation of the U47 large diaphragm tube microphone is exact in every detail, down to the historically accurate BV8 output transformer and M7 capsule."

..and here is a bit of history about the m7
https://repforums.prosoundweb.com/in...p?topic=1135.0

Honestly, who knows. Maybe they're sourcing them from MTG.. but even so the claim of historically accurate m7 seems spurious at best..

They may well sound great, and I'll defer to experienced users here, but at the prices they are asking, for mics that are named and styled virtually identically to their sought after vintage namesakes, despite having none of the critical components (k47/49, m7 or ck12 capsules, bv8 transformer, vf14 tube, etc..), I remain highly skeptical. It reads more like a marketing strategy than a credible claim. It also just feels dishonest to market modern designs as rebuilds of classic mics despite bearing questionable lineage to the mics they claim a connection to.

AEA's r44 can swap almost all of its parts with a vintage RCA44, yet they still changed the name of the mic. Even if the Tele USA mics were full reproductions, the names, designs and prices would seem a little dishonest, but as is, they are a red flag for me.

I like my 87, and would love a 67.

Originally Posted by Thomas@canopy ➡️

Have you used any of these microphones? A lot of typing without real world experience.

Having used all of these mics, I don’t find your assumptions to be accurate.

Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️

There is no reissue.

Originally Posted by Breathe9 ➡️

So this reissue that Telefunken calls a reissue isn't a reissue then?

https://www.telefunken-elektroakusti...ct/ela-m-251e/

I'll contact them immediately to let them know they should stop selling it. Since, you know, it doesn't exist :D

Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️

Can you reissue something if you aren’t the original company? If you just start calling yourself part of the name of an old company does that make your mic a reissue? That’s where I was going with that one.

Originally Posted by EngineerMoney ➡️

The mics sound great, why are you caught up on this minute point? Not a good look, sounds like you’re hating on Tfunk, without sonic reason.

Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️

Can you reissue something if you aren’t the original company? If you just start calling yourself part of the name of an old company does that make your mic a reissue? That’s where I was going with that one.

Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️

Just scrolling through and saying it wasn’t a reissue. You don’t have to get angry about it!

Originally Posted by chymer ➡️

you're missing my point about the mic.
Call it whatever you want
It's the real deal.

Originally Posted by seedubs ➡️

It's a tough one. Telefunken Germany never made any of these mics. Tubes for the mics, yes, so they are an important ingredient but they did nothing more than rebrand designs from Neuman, AKG and Scheops. I also believe they were involved with some designing with the parent companies in certain cases but I wasn't there. By your logic even the original Telefunken isn't the "real deal" and you would be correct. The mic in question is really an AKG design. Same CK12 capsule and 6072 tube as the C12. I believe it was also built in Austria, not Berlin like the rest of these mics. Same region but worlds apart culturally I'm told by my German intern.

Originally Posted by seedubs ➡️

The mic in question is really an AKG design. Same CK12 capsule and 6072 tube as the C12.

Originally Posted by themiracle ➡️

The current production Telefunken Elektroakustik (USA) model shares no such CK12 capsule with a vintage C12 or 251. Their modern reproduction CK12 may be a beautiful sounding capsule, but I do not believe it shares any ancestry with the AKG original, other than inspiration and whatever they could reverse engineer

Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️

Can you reissue something if you aren’t the original company? If you just start calling yourself part of the name of an old company does that make your mic a reissue? That’s where I was going with that one.