Thanks! The most fun thing about the Kat Cunning "O Holy Night" was when she asked me to really F*$# up the piano sound. It was actually recorded as a pretty nice piano. That really opened up the sound for her beautiful vocal tone.

I let this play through on youtube, and it went into another version, also a basic piano and vocal performance of the classic.

It instantly sounded dated next to yours. . or perhaps timeless in the generic sort of way a straight up piano ballad sounds.

Interesting how much the production choices can make a song interesting and fresh sounding.

The ugly, wobblying piano and then when the beautiful voice comes back - heavenly.
If I may ask a question about the incredible sound of Kat's voice in that song:
Did you get the produced vocal with too loud esses and sibilants and is this incredible silky and open sound without esses a product of your mixing skills, or was that vocal recorded and produced with the beautiful harmonics and needed "only" corrections?

There a chance serban reveals to us the model of his sub and headphones?

I get it he doesnt want his master revealed and i will not but the sub and cans cooomeoooon

I'm noticing a lot of modern records have a really wide low end. Looking at an imager I'm seeing a lot of movement in the low end going all the way down to 20hz. This isn't really specific to mixes done by serban but most proffesional records in general. I'm wondering if anyone can give some advice on how to achieve this or perhaps reference me if this has been discussed before. Thanks

It has mostly to do with sound selection! Modern productions have no limitations on this, for example ive received mixes where there were 4 big drums panned and layered on top of a mono kick drum! If tried to mono like in general below 100hz or so, the mix “shrinked”! Hope it makes sense

Could you name some of these mixes, please?

I'd say it was a bit smoother delivery than usual; well produced and well recorded vocal by a singer with great tone and technique.

I did my normal things, shaping tone, effects, removing noises, de-essing, etc.

So I can't take all of the credit for the silky open sound; but part of mixing is recognizing what is needed and doing, or not doing, things to enhance the recording.

Hello @ TheHanes - Hope all is well!

I was just searching the thread regarding info on notching frequencies and the word "notch" seems to be mentioned several times by you, but it seems to me it can mean different things to different people.

My question is: When you say notching frequencies, do you just mean narrowing the Q on a normal EQ band and maybe subtracting anything from 1 to 10 db, or would you use a proper "notch filter", as the one in ProQ-3 for instance?

I'm probably speaking of it pretty generically; I do tend to start with a normal EQ with a narrow Q.

Hey @ TheHanes thanks for all the information your sharing on this thread.

Quick question how is your playback engine menu setup in terms of the boxs checked or unchecked. I've noticed sonic difference with some on and off. Wondering if you have any advice?

@ TheHanes you've been a great help but despite thoroughly reading through this thread several times I really don't understand.. am I missing something major here?

You and Serban mainly use Metric Halo and CLA-76 and a Waves DeEsser and get that kind of vocal sound? how is that possible even with manually riding volume and fixing problems in RX etc. I could volume ride my vocals till the cows come home and RX them to death with meticulous precision and I'm still not getting anywhere near that specific sound I hear in MixStar vocals.

I'm not asking for specifics, but generally are you adding lot's of other plugs on the lead vocal besides the 3 you mentioned to "process" them a certain way. Is there a certain number of plugs you typically use on the lead vocal track? like 4-5?

You use the word "process" a lot, I wonder if besides the masterbus - there is a similar approach regarding the vocal mixing. Giving them a specific sound with certain plugins that do a certain "thing" to the sound.

You and Serban have this very specific sound consistently across many different artists/genre's so I feel despite many singers having different voices and I understand you get Pro Tools sessions and vocal tracks with different plugins on them so it can vary, but despite that the vocal is always treated in a similar way with a certain "processed" sound to them. I obviously love whatever that is! but again, not asking specifics, just clarification to what I'm hearing and any advice on how to approach getting such an awesome vocal sound.

Hi!

I'm in a situation where my productions and mixes are starting to feel good tonally and dimensionally but I'm unsatisfied with the overall dynamics. Track-level dynamics are quite on point. I would be 100% satisfied of my work if I knew how to do the overall dynamic 'smoothing'.

It's obviously about compressing (and limiting). Does this sound like it's more like mix bus thing, what do you think? Btw, I have Maserati GRP first on my mix bus and its compression makes tiny bit of the effect I'm searching for. I have also routed all instrument groups to dedicated buses by default so I'd have 'macro control' (such as group compression) if needed.

What should I try?

Thank you so much for helping us! @ TheHanes

So there is a lot going on to get the vocal sound that we like.

1) if starting from scratch (no producer plugins) those are our go-to trinity of plugins to start shaping the vocals. We will certainly add whatever is needed to those to get to where we want it. I'll throw whatever it takes to get the sound in the song that I envision in my mind.

2) The master fader plugins also help to shape everything and this is why we mix into them from the start.

3) years and years, dare I say decades of experience. I believe mixing techniques of mixing vocals forward and vocals always on while shaping other sounds also help.

4) know when too much is done and hurting the vocal sound. You cant process your way to a beautiful vocal; sometimes less is better. First tackle the overall shape, then apply fixes where needed, and finally smooth away what sticks out. Do this during the whole mixing process even while working on other sounds.

Here's What I'm running;

Playback Engine: HDX

Hybrid Engine Enabled
Hybrid I/O Channels: 512
H/W Buffer Size: 512
Sample Rate: 48kHz

No optimizations checked

Cache Size: 28GB

Here's What I'm running;

Playback Engine: HDX

Hybrid Engine Enabled
Hybrid I/O Channels: 512
H/W Buffer Size: 512
Sample Rate: 48kHz

No optimizations checked

Cache Size: 28GB

Thanks John, very insightful.

The reason I'm asking what you might be using after the trinity 3 plugs is because you seem to be enhancing the low-mids in a perfect way. In a majority of modern pop vocals they are high-passed so overall not much low information. So this low-mid thing brings the "chest" of the vocal forward and you can really feel the emotion of the singer. It's very effective and at MixStar you guys seem to be good at enhancing it.

Is this something that is done with just basic EQ moves in Metric Halo at the start? or is this done a little later in the vocal chain - more in the additive stage after those 3 initial plugs, for example adding a "Color EQ" that is boosting those freq's or whatever else technique is applied to make it pop out.

It's also important to note that it's not like a low-mid rumble enhancement (that's what happens when I try to boost that part of the vocal, it ends up muddying things up rather than improving it) - MixStar does it in a smooth/characterful way. Whatever method is being applied, it's done really well and I'm just trying to figure out where in the vocal process this is being done.

I understand exactly what you mean. I don't know if this is the right answer, but I myself tried to figure out exactly that low-mid thing that brings the vocal forward. It was very apparent to me when I listened to stems of Arianas vocals, but I could never get it in mine.

I ended up buying the pre-amp that Max Martin uses (Chandler TG2), ran it through the same compressor as them and voila, that forwardness was there. It sounded identical. I'd say that is 99% recording (Preamp, Analog Compression on the way in and a really expensive mic).

While I totally get what you're saying, I've noticed this vocal "low-mid" forwardness on a majority of the records MixStar works on in particular compared to other mixers. So I don't think it's preamp/compressor dependent. They can enhance it regardless of the hardware recording chain.

Why do I say that? because I've heard those same artists have a different mixer mix their song and the low-mids just aren't as noticable compared to when Hanes and Serban mix it. So there is definetly something happening in the mix to bring that out.

Obviously having a great recording chain helps (so not saying it's not helpful) but I'd bet you Serban and Hanes could bring that low-mids out if you record vocals directly into a cheap focusrite scarlett on a cheap $150 dollar mic. They'd still be able to bring that low-mids forward.

I know we like to think the gear is the #1 solution (including myself) but sadly it's not. Good mixing skills and technique's can make even cheap gear sound expensive.

100% this. It's never about the gear and John and Serban are the best proof of that.

Exactly

If you set up an experiment where you had one singer use the most expensive hardware recording chain around and expensive mic and hired out a mixing engineer.

Then have another singer use a cheap recording chain, $100 interface, $150 dollar mic BUT have Hanes or Serban mix it.

But you wouldn't reveal to people what chain the two artists used or who mixed it.

I would bet TOP dollar that everyone would rave about how good the vocals sound of the guy who used the cheap $150 dollar mic compared to the expensive recording chain simply because Serban and Hanes know how to bring the best out of the vocal.

Mixing technique's are underrated! again not saying the recording chain doesn't matter - it definetly helps! but I do believe these days even if someone used a $150 dollar mic but had the MixStar crew mix it, it's gonna sound freakin incredible and we'd never know.

hey John, in another part of the thread you mentioned gain riding for control and compression for sound. I was wondering if you meant sending a steady clip gained or rided vocal into the compressor signal or doing that after, or both?
Right now my workflow is doing both but the bulk of the automation is before the compression and then i automate words/syllables that are getting buried in the mix and need to poke out

@ SkyStudio I have been thinking about this too and there must be something else doing heavy lifting on the vocals - no way this is just carefully chosen EQ and compression on well recorded vocal with a high end signal chain. Since they've been getting these results from times way before Soothe, Gullfoss and the likes of modern "intelligent" processors my best guess would be on something like DSM 2 / 3.

Hello @ TheHanes

I've been working with ProAc Studio 100 for 3 years and I think I'm more or less used to the way they sound. but I always encounter some problems with the balance of the low frequencies, the kick & bass sound is always lacking, even though I think at the moment I have enough energy to go low, but it always happens to me after the song comes out that I say to myself, I needed a little more energy. I don't know why this happens to me, maybe it's the problem with me or I still don't know ProAc? Can you help me with the characteristics of these speakers since you have 25 years of experience with them. Thank you very much John for sharing your time and knowledge with us, it's a pleasure!

Interesting. I’m not sure I hear what you are referring to. Any particular track you have in mind that demonstrates this low-mid processing? To my ears, Serban and Hanes vocals sound very natural and not overly processed. I used to high pass vocals at 200hz, but now high pass much lower and use a low shelf and dynamic eq/ automation to tame any buildups down there. I credit John’s advice in this thread for that! But it’s really contingent upon the arrangement. So much of their signature “vocal sound” comes from creating a pocket around the vocal for it to shine. I hear a lot of fast attack compression on the drums, strategic EQ, and spread / modulation effects all to maintain the vocal as the center of gravity in the mix. And while they all sound natural, they definitely don’t sound exactly the same across different artists. Some records like the Jonas Brothers ‘The Album’ have that high end sheen thing going on. While Adele’s vocals sound a little less hyped.

The mixes I've noticed it immediately is in a lot of the recent Nicki Minaj singles they have mixed or Doja Cat & SZA - Kiss Me More. Another one that comes to mind is Jung Kook & Jack Harlow - 3D.

Like you've said, it's probably a more natural processing for these songs, but it's very apparent when you know what to look out for/when you compare their other songs to Serban's mixes. The pocket thing you've mentioned too also comes to play in these songs, so there's that haha.

Bad Decisions - Ariana Grande
Purple Heart ski - Lucki
Lean 4 Real - Carti
Wishing well - Juice wrld
Get rich or die - ken carson
Paint The Town Red - Doja Cat

I realized I asked a question similar to this before and John mentioned he likes to widen the bass but didn't really mention what techniques he'd use when approaching this. Apart from using gaffel if the bass starts to lean heavy right or left.

"Jung Kook & Jack Harlow - 3D" throwback Neptunes vibe! Pharrell and Chad should get production credit on that!

Not only the perfect frequency response..the adsr of hanes/serban vocals sounds just like a live singing

There's no much of a content below 200hz for their vocals but still sounds lovely, smooth and rich. No other engineer got this feature according to my knowledge!