I'm building a studio in Namibia (southern Africa) and have most of the gear sorted except for the main monitors.
I have the Neumann KH120A's & KH810 in a 5.1 setup. These will also act as my nearfields together with a pair of Auratones.
The control room is 23sqm (247sqft) and the idea is to soffit-mout the mains. It's near impossible to listen to any large/expensive monitors in this part of the world, so I would like some input/opinions from the forum.

The room will be used for tracking, mixing and mastering of music, voice and film.

My budget is $ 8-12k.

I'm looking at:

ME Geithain RL901K - this was my original consideration
ATC SCM100A SL - my supplier is urging me to get these
Unity Audio Boulder + B.A.B.E - I heard this system a few weeks ago and was quite impressed

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

I'd get a pair of ATC.
I do own a pair of scm25 in my small (very small) control room, and I do think they're great...but besides that I've worked with the scm50 and a bigger, custom made, ATC scm200 in NY.. If my room would be bigger I'd get the scm100 as well, but unfortunately I can't.

It's not that the other speakers are bad, but I do think that since you're covered with a nearfield setup (there might be some better speakers, but the kh120 are great little speakers..very hard to beat for their price imho), and you would like a main (or midfield) that you could use for mixing as well, then the ATC are fantastic speakers.

No more guessing the lowend, or the vocals level.. at least that's my experience. What you'll get is a pair of midfield (or mains depending on the size of your room) that you could really use, I suspect that you might end up using them 98% of the time and just do few checks on the auratones and the 5.1 setup is probably meant for other reasons like scoring/films, than just mixing for music (in stereo).

Plus the ATC scm100 (as other speakers in their line) are upgradable. If you buy them new you'll get the new amp packs and tweeter, but in the next 10/15 years you'll be able to upgrade them, if you feel the need. If you buy them used, you could always upgrade them to the latest specs...
I don't see any other speaker like that on the market, that have the same weight/history and same easiness to eventual upgrades.

This means that is even a better investment, plus they keep their value and are worldwide reknown (also in mastering places worldwide). That means that are easier to sell, if you need to do that.

I'll have NO doubts on what speakers to get in your case..
You'll have a killer setup with the ATC's, in this case your supplier is right !
Btw I'd try to compare them with at least another contender and see how they react to the room.

I don't work for ATC, I make my living as a sound engineer and a theater technical director.

This is just my experience.

I hope this helps,



Cheu

Pmc mb2s properly soffit mounted.
Great stuff!!!

And still the best

Read the High End Nearfield thread - if this is too long read THIS POST where the OP goes into details and all the reasons why he got rid of his previous monitors and bought two pairs of ME-Geithain.

He actually got the RL801K and RL 944K - but the RL901K will sound the same as the 801, but voiced for a listening distance of 2-4 metres (the 801 are designed for 3-6 metres).

Frankly, it's your designer you need to be talking to. If you are building a room from the ground up your main monitors are an integral part of that design. Because the two Together are part of a listening system. My room was literally built around a pair of custom ATC SCM110s. I honestly haven't heard a better room anywhere.

Uhm, more than double his budget, no?

you should really read the high end nearfield thread.
my choice would be geithain, but im sure the ATC or a amphion one18+ base25 would also be excellent.
contact the user spencer, he works with atc scm100 and amphion + base25.

Thanks Cheu! These are informed valid points you raise. I am working with a room designer at this moment, that's why I want to decide now, so we can optimise the room for the monitors.

I'm using ATC 150's with sound anchor stands in a room a tiny bit bigger than yours. Absolutely fantastic. Couldn't say enough good things about them. I rarely use the nearfields anymore.

Had to put quite a bit of effort in to get the room to play nice though. I've got 2 feet of rockwool between the front wall and the speakers, and nearly two feet of rockwool coming off the rear wall. And a full ceiling cloud.. And 1 foot thick bass trapping at near reflection points. You get the idea.

The Geithains might be a bit more forgiving with the room acoustics if you don't have a considerable budget for that.

Which ever you pick, I'm sure you'll be extremely pleased. Good luck!

IMO this is good advice. Also, I think the ATC 100 will be quite a bit more than your budget allows. That is, unless you are lucky to find a nice pair on the used market (from time to time I look for ATC 100 or 110 models, and currently run 50ASLs).

The Amphion might allow some modularity, starting with One18 or Two18 and then eventual upgrade with BaseOne25. So maybe you could part with the current nearfield solutions and start with the Amphion One18 or Two18 and then later expand them to a full range system with the BaseOne25. This could be advantageous with a less initial net cash outlay.

However, I have not heard either the Amphion or the Geithain. I've been meaning to listen to the Geithain for several years now, and have recently added the Amphion to my list of systems to check out.

But no matter what you do I think the advice of Trev@Circle is solid.

That thread led me to the Geihain's originally. Or rather, back in Recording school we discussed loudspeaker construction and how ME Geithain's approach made so much sense from a physics standpoint. (Ratio of driver sizes, coaxial arrangement, cardioid bass pattern etc.)

We are spending a considerable amount on acoustics, so I guess we could make any speaker "work"... It's just a pity that I can't really listen to them beforehand.

One thing I'm a bit confused about is the cabinet design on both these speakers and whether they are sealed or ported.

The ATC's look like they're ported, but I read here somewhere that the port is not used to extend the low-end, but rather for driver mounting?

The Geithain's look like they're sealed, but they seem to use a rear port system to achieve the cardioid polar pattern at low frequencies. How is this affected when they are soffit-mounted?

I can get the RL901K's for just under € 10K, and the SCM100's for € 12.5K. That's about as far as my budget stretches.
If I go with the ATC's I'll have to sacrifice the Bricasti M7 I was planning to get... :/

I haven't heard the Geithain yet, but the price for the ATC seems ok. I'd check with your room designer and, certainly, spend time auditioning the two models using recordings with which you are very familiar. Maybe the cardioid bass response of the Geithain would ease somewhat the work and expense on room treatment etc.

I think I'll nitpick my own post. If you are designing and building a room from scratch then there is probably nothing or not much to save in terms of work and expense on acoustic treatment.

I'd go with the model you are most comfortable with, after a lot of auditioning and also working with your room designer.

Who is your designer? What do they say?

(If you put rear ported monitors into a soffit you have just completely changed the designed response of them!)

This stuff is really difficult to get right. Don't make expensive mistakes that could be avoided. Get an expert acoustician in now or you will almost certainly regret it. I used Thomas at Northward Acoustics in Belgium and couldn't be happier with his work. There are only a few others in the world I would have trusted and I don't believe any would/could have done a better job.

Amphion...

PM Sent..

Mains are used to judge performances. They need to play just as loud as what the musicians just heard as they were performing. My preference is for them to not be too clinical sounding so that they distract from judging performances. ATC is very good.

ME Geithain hands down.

The ports at the back of RL901k are there indeed for the cardioid pattern. What you probably want is RL901 model (without K). I'd e-mail folks at Geithan and ask them what they recommend in the case you want to soffit mount 901s. And your acoustic engineer should speak with them too I guess.

I'd say geithains are not really in the uber-analytical category, they reveal a lot when you know how to listen to them, but they don't overemphasize small problems or force you to aim for specific sound to sound good. And that's really great for production/tracking part of the process. Big blank canvas.


Unfortunatelly I've never used ATC or Amphions.

Apologies for the forum necro, but are the Amphions capable of being soffit mounted? I've heard contradictory info.

I'm in the same position as the OP.

They have passive radiators on the back of their cabinets, so a definite 'NO' to soffit mounting.

Same goes for any monitor that has rear ports.

Thanks Fleaman!

I would say no - passive radiators on the back..

Thanks Robin too!

Between your post and Fleaman, it got me thinking that there are perhaps not that many soffit-mount choices available to designers/builders other than fairly high-end.

My designer is adamant that a soffit mount is the best option, and he's probably right from an end-product perspective. However, since it's my first build, I'm genuinely unsure (at this early planning stage) whether to follow this path. Since I understand that the soffit mount will need to be built around the speaker (as indeed will much of the room's acoustic design) how to you guys determine that (if you're buying new speakers), they are right for the room? Do you adapt the mount to reflect your final choice of speaker?

Seems like a tricky chicken and egg situation.

Thanks!

A

If your room is big enough for some midfield or mains, soffit mount is a good idea, and the acoustic engineer could build the room around the loudspeakers.

ATC scm110 are excellent for this, also because they're less deep than the scm100.. Although with any ATC loudspeaker in your budget you'll get excellent results.
I'm not sure if there's still a used pair on the classifieds, but I'd grab them in a heartbeat if I were in your situation.




Cheu

Thanks Cheu.

My room's a decent size - for me at least (7m Long x 4,4m Wide x 3,2m High - non-isolated, and untreated) so it can probably take a fairly hefty amount of power. The 110s are lovely but beyond my price range.

I think the most I can hope for (new) are a pair of ME Geithain RL922 (or 44) K1s or the SCM45As (i.e. around 10K Euros) - for midfield monitoring. Since it's a single room with dual purposes (mixing and recording), am I being daft? My designer is extremely hot on acoustic treatment but less so on the specific monitor models...

There was a pair of 110 for sale on the GS classifieds not long ago for about your budget.. 10/11k euro.



That's why I was speaking about them..
Anyway, any atc will be fantastic for tracking and mixing (imho and ime).. You could hear what is really happening without fatigue. Brilliant monitors.



Cheu

While I've bought many used monitors with great results over the decades, one does have to be careful when you start to look at monitors that might be in the 10-15+ year range, especially in a commercial studio environment in which they likely worked hard on a daily basis.

I once got a 'deal' on some Quested mains that were approaching 20 years old. Most of the drivers were 'tired', though had no obvious signs of anything wrong with them.

So try to find out how old the monitors are. Many mains of the like of Quested, ATC, etc., have not changed model #'s for decades, but they usually have an manufacture QC inspection date sticker on them, etc.

That is true (that they kept the models for many years) and it's a good advice generally speaking. I agree with you 100%.

Although the 110 on the classifieds were rather new (I believe less than 2 years old?) and the 110 model was not around for decades, it's a rather new model from atc.




Cheu