Ive seen much people praising that unit, im another bedroom producer and have a couple of outboard synths that i regulary use but everything i use from plugins are just that, plugins.

It feels i cannot make the warm percussion i want to have because im proccesing my drums with a digital EQ and maybe a parallel compression and somekind of a warmer like inflator, or a tybe of tube distortion, which is all crap, basically the sound doesnt have impact, doesnt have that fullness in frequencies only a good distortion probably can give. Or a fat bass with pushed harmonics

Since i have a few money gathered and will not have for sometime after im thinking what the best buy would be and decided to go to the outboard distiortion, the best i can afford with that money.

I use and Fireface400, monitoring through Focals Solo6 in a semi treated semibasement, its a decent place for me and my level, do you think buying such a piece to give my mixes that impact, if i send one by one my channels and pass the bass, the percussion, the leads and why not the entire mix through it, will i be actually able to listen to a much improved and warm signal ? I dont use and outboard desk and judging from posts and experiences i dont know if i need to, would it be much more difference
if i passed this boosted signal though a Soundcraft Spirit for example and then back to Cubase ?

Im thinking of what a best buy would be, something to make you more creative like a big new synthesizer, or something to give a better and more weighted mix, like a dynamic proccesor and conclued to the tube distortion side

I checked also the A Designs reddi for a warm "booster" but this is mono DI nothing to do with the distrortion but was thinking of combining this one with other gear like an out board compressor to give a better, punch, impact, warmness etc

I dont know if i need a summing device, ive seen also lots suggesting others to buy an summing device etc for more warm mixes, but i need the beef.. really, something to instantly rock my soul and ears

I really need your contribution to this one cause its also an investment, dont want/need to come up with useless gear, nor have the money so if i buy the Culture Vulture to be something that will stay with me forever, and as i have more money to continue to buy little by little more good gear

thanks a lot
christos

I have considered this as well. I have used it, but not in my studio or on my music. It is a kick ass distortion box that add so much fuzzy tone to a less than exciting track. Drums, bass, synths, guitars, ect. ect.

But have you considered the TC Roster??? see more here: Thermionic Culture Rooster Valve Microphone Preamplifier / DI / EQ /Distortion
For my needs it seemed like a much more bang for the buck.
You had mentioned DI's
It is a high quality dual channel MicPre/DI, EQ and a good part of the distortion of the Vulture.

That might bring a little more to the table for slightly more money.

Hope that helps a little.heh

This looks like a fantastic tool though its more expensive and cannot afford it, maybe i could buy later an EQ or a compressor but the thing is that there are so many options to spend the money on more cheaper gear, like the DI i said together with an FMR and something more, i even thought to spend all my money to an Eventide for helping in the creative proccess with great fx etc , but i prefer to make my sound as i described it and spend the money on the most good gear i can afford for that job and cannot see something better than the Culture, do you think im really going to have the results im expecting, i dont have also the opportunity to listen to it in store in my town, so its a blind choice.
I have put a link to my music too, to have an idea
thank you for your answer

Dont want to be ass, but if You cant make the drums sound the way You want (the impact you mentioned) I dont think its a plugin quality problem. Todays plugin are of superb quality and there is no excuse for not being able to create the sound You want with them. Maybe some changes at the source could help? Sample layering?
That said, I do own a CV and it does bring some serious mojo to synths and loops, and I love it- its just a different flavour. I especially love it on vocals, base and kik.
Anyway - its a very flexible thing- if You can afford it get it - there is a huge chance You will love it.
Good luck
Marty

I've been looking a lot at the differences between the rooster and the vulture. I don't use any pres or di's currently, so having an "all in one" box is appealing to me. However, my understanding is that the roosters distortion capabilities are a lot more limited, judging from this thread:

Rooster Attitude?

Saying that the rooster distortion is "quite a bit more mellow" than the vulture , and this thread:

Thermionic Rooster vs EarlyBird

Saying that the "Rooster is better for guys who want tone shaping options" .

So I'm not sure yet. I really think I need some quality, heavy distortion right now. I'm leaning towards buying the vulture and instead of mic pres and a DI, getting a used speck Xtramix. This whole "pres, di's and compressors on synths" subject really has me wondering if I'll get enough bang for the buck, and if I could use an Xtramix instead of pres and di , at least for now. Right now I could use the extra line inputs and sub groups - maybe summing as well? - of the Xtramix.

So many choices...

That is how I felt. I wanted to check out the Roster compared to the Vulture when I was at AES in San Fran last year, but Mercenary's was not functioning at the moment due to shipping, plus the AES floor is not a good place to check it out.

I imagine when I am really ready to spend that kind of money I will get to a vendor that has both and bring some material with me to get some a/b comparisons. Because reading all the threads and the reviews are purely academic in the end. Nothing compares to getting your hands on it.

I too chase distortion on synths/drums and have collected lots of ways to do this. i have the sansamp psa, boss gl-100, metasonix, etc. i also have tons of VST's including the Ohmboys Ohmicide.
--im frankly not sure what youre really after?
i have the culture vulture and i like it, but it is a pure distortion device. you can get all sorts of even or odd harmonic distortion from 0% to 99%---i think this is accurate. the Rooster is a preamp which WILL distort, but thats not its main deal.

when i run synths or drums through the CV, it add a nice grit to them, gives them a little low end boost, and the top has a nice sizzle that i havent really seen through a VST. a good example of the CV in use is the Justice album-- i can hear it all over that.

the best way to find out if this is what youre after is to hear it
if you want to post an mp3/wav of something, i'll loop it and run it through the CV, twist a few knobs, and post it back here for everyone to listen.

I sympathise with this quest - being a fellow GS trying to get great sound on a budget. I run a similar set-up. FF400 + some synths.
I find most plugins dissatisfying when it comes to warmth and punch.
On the lower end of the spectrum you can get good gear but it is generally clean sounding.

However there are a few ways around this I suggest:

Combine:

Nebula - the budget producers favorite secret weapon to obtain analogue sound. If you use great Alex B Pre Amp programs, and CD Soundmaster Tape -> you can get great harmonic warming in the computer for very little $$$

Listen to what the Tape Booster programs does to this drum loop


Or This Guitar Loop


Much warmer! Genuine tape saturation.

However when recording into your Fireface - there is a recent Neve Style Pre Amp that gets GREAT feedback and could warm your signal. $299 per channel.

JRRshop.com : Golden Age Project Pre-73 [pre73] - $299.00USD

Final suggestion. What about nice analogue compression? You can buy a DIY built SSL style buss compressor for your drum buss for around $500. Look in Second hand section and Ebay. This is on par with units much more expensive and will introduce a nice analogue punch. 30ms attack - fast release.

Also this compressor is meant to be a great deal similar to a Distressor which has some nice colour - might be worth checking out. I will be demoing in a few months.

In the low end gear area I think you will not find one unit that does everything you want (like the Rooster) - but you can make it happen with pieces I suggested. I think if you are on a budget a Culture Vultre is rather indulgent for one process. BTW the Soundtoys Decapitator has some similarities with CV and is the most convincing ITB saturation I have heard to date. You can try it.

SoundToys Decapitator - Analog Saturation Modeler

PS I like the 'Walk Through' demo track

Good post swan, - is the nebula thing by Acustica Audio?

This is an awesome thread!

I'm also on the same boat as many of you where I'm making music on a budget, but after reading all this... I'm getting quite hungry for the CV

Though it is pretty hard to justify a 2K distortion box. I've been using IK Multimedia Amplitude on the Drums FX chain to add some gritt.. though it's not really the same thing as using a CV it does add an interesting touch. Also, plugins from Tritone are great for adding that warmth to drums.

I have a CV mastering version in my studio, I use it often (not for mastering though). Recently I've been demoing the new soundtoys decapitator, it's a bit similar, I like it a lot and it's very easy to dail in with great results.

Christosm,

Given your setup and the options of what you could do with the money I feel that a Culture Vulture would be a total waste of money and big mistake.

I had one for about three years and sold it last year. My work setup is basically racks of synths and samplers, two PCs and Two Mac Pros with a simple outboard rack and a cheap but functional Soundcraft Spirit 32 desk. For me It didn't make enough difference on my productions to warrant keeping it. For the money you could get yourself all kinds of interesting kit. Do you have any of the high end Plugs ? if you don't then you can't make a sweeping statement that they're all bad !

Culture Vulture is great if you have a very well equipped studio with every other bit of outboard covered. Its a waste if you're giving it great precedence than other more important pieces of outboard or plugs !

Beer.

I have just got the mastering L.E. and I've been really loving it on drums, synth, bass and as a pre - plate and spring reverb effect.
But I agree with Beermaster, there are many other tools you could spend the money on.......
How about a used, stereo Vari Mu compressor and some stomp boxes for analogue fun? This would improve recording and mixing no end.
Plug ins are getting better but they have a long way to go to match high quality interesting, analogue processing.

If the culture vulture is a bit overkill for the OP, can anyone suggest stompboxes/outboard that might be a decent compromise for overdrive purposes?

I'm in a similar boat to him.

I'm a big fan of outboard gear, but I think you should check out the Sound Toys Decapitator.. It really is a fantastic plug and nails the whole distortion/warmth thing..
If you have lots of outboard synths/drum machines and the like, then u really should own a good pre, so the Phoenix might be what you're after.

I'm gonna pop an example up later.

of the real thing or Nebula version?

I have a Vulture, it's fantastic. Use it constantly.

Also have Decapitator, which is also great, and use that all the time too, but it doesn't really sound like the Vulture.

I'm faced with a similar situation. However I have been just about getting the sound I want ITB. I've just been sampling a hell of a lot more from old records.




Recipe:
Hihat - old disco tracks, some I made myself
Perc - sampled from some new wave
Claps - some wave alchemy, but the click is from a motown track
Voices - sampled again
Organ like sound - samples from an octagon, with some distortion and some of ableton's 'erosion'
Violins - Korg M1 VST and d16 group's decimort
bassline - hardware MS20 (ok so this wasn't ITB!), pitched down and phaser itb

Some budget suggestions.

Plug Ins..Nebula (VCult, Alex B Consoles). Or the upcoming VCC thumbsup


Desk: Soundcraft Ghost's are the shit. look them up; buy one of those second hand at much less than the culture and still buy a nice comp on top.

The old Allen And Heaths are great GS3's are really cheap nowadays and the EQ is ridiculously good on them but they are noisy.

Distortion....ITB D16 and Ohmboyz.. OTB some of the chinese replicas pedals on Ebay.

I have been considering this as my analog drum processor. It gets a ton of praise on the drumbus: It's a stereo compressor that also has DIRT mode for distortion harmonics. Only about 500 bucks too.

Overstayer Recording Equipment - Stereo Compressor

Really cool track i'd be into a more dubby version of just the bass and drums man

Ela re christara.

Well I tested my Alchemy VST for recreating not analogue drums but an accoustic piano .I feeded it with a piano sample I downloaded from freesound website and resynthesized it using only additive. I was amazed by the result because it sounded exactly the same. It passed the test with flying marks, proving that there is not a sound that Alchemy cannot do.

What have an accoustic piano sound related to analogue drum , I hear you asking ? Well the principle is the same, additive resyntesis. And you can still go inside the sound and make it sound EXACTLY as you like. 600 partilas should be enough , no ?

So..... all you have to do is find some samples with drums you love or even use the track containg them, from there on , you have graintable/spectral/graintable to get you started (you can go inside add, remove and edit partials , Alchemy devides the sonic spectrum of the 44.1 khz to 600 partials each one with unlimited envelopes for amp, phase and pan ) and an insane modulation matrix to satisfy your craziest need (even modulaton can be modulated with modulation curves you can draw yourself!!!) and you can bring all that to a single page with a handful of knobs (8 knobs that can control multiple other knobs, sperate 4 knobs for the overall ADSR envelope) and 2 morph pads for some very easy playbility on the fly.

Here is the test sample. Alchemy is using additive for this sound, it took alchemy around 5 seconds to analyse and resynthesize the sound and I have done zero editing on it whatsoever. What you hear is that 5 seconds effort by Alchemy, I am very impressed and I though you might be interested too.

Can you guess which sounds are real accoustic piano and which Alchemy resynthesing the sample with additive only ?

That's nice, but what does that have to do with drums and warming up stuff?

I have the Vulture and then i got some distressors.Well,im only using the cv now(distressors will come out again at some point).Not that the cv compresses although if you turn it up it does a bit.I like it a lot.Who wants thin,dry digital sound???Nuff said!!!

I 100 % agree.

This isn't the stereo comp you pictured here Mike, but it definetley adds weight when used in parallel on a mix/bus for example.

Sorry I thought I was clear. I dont know if you are familiar with additive or spectral synthesis but it goes like this, I wont go in depth because you can find load information about additive and spectral around if you google it.

Lets say you hear a nice warm drum in a 80s electo pop song, right ?

In theory :

Ok you follow these easy steps

1) You isolate the sound, thats simple you basically try to cut a sample not containing any other sound mixed. If you cant do that because the sound plays always on a mix , no worries you can take out additional sounds later while editing the partials.

2) You load the sample of the drum to Alchemy and you instruct it to resynthesize it.

3) Viola Alchemy has resynthesized the sample with additive or you could use additive and spectral if the drum contains noisy content as spetral can isolate the noisy content and resynthesize it itself and leave the rest of the content to additive, or you can use only spectral. There are many settings for this with Alchemy so it will need some playing around till you achieve the prefered result.

4) Now here you ask yourself the bellow question a) Do I keep the sound as it is or do I just want to keep that "warmth part" and change the rest. Its totally up to you. Basically you go inside the additive editor and play around the partials to see which are responsible for that "warmth" , you can then : a) edit the partials and come up with a new sound that retains the "warmth" of the sample b) Keep the "warmth" part , delete the rest and layer with another resynthesized sample, or additive sound from scratch, or graintable or other options offered by Alchemy which are too lengthy to describe.

In Practice :

I do the above alot with my Andromeda. What I do is that come up with some very basic sounds with my Andromeda, I dont go to alot of depth because the sound of Andromeda is abit hard to control but its dead easy to bring that "warmth" because of the fact that Andromeda is a pure analogue synth. Then I feed the samples of my Andromeda sounds to Alchemy, I find it 10 times easier to control the content of the sound via Additive than substracive. I want to boost some specific lower harmonics ? no problemo, go inside Alchemy raise that specific spartials that do the trick. Want to modulate the lower harmonic or higher in a specific way, not problem Alchemy offers unlimited modulation for its partials. That means that you can increase / decrease amount of amp volume, phase and pan as many times as you want through the passage of time like a real accoustic sound. So you could go from piano , to trance lead, to violin, and then to soundscape in just a press of note. Its extremely powerful stuff.

So I have both warmth and precise control of my sound this way.

Am I clear now? Sorry for the long post.

I know this thread is about outboard and plugins.. but what a phenom track really..

and also so you've been sampling more by way of one explanation for getting the sound you want but what else are you using ITB? Could you elaborate a bit more? thanks.

Yes you are. But how is that different from simply using an EQ?