That’s great. I like to mix it up. There’s a place we go to for special occasions, as it’s pretty expensive, where we order a bunch of smaller plates. We get everything from sashimi to grilled corn with miso sauce. They bring out the sashimi course last, and after all the more complicated things, it’s a refreshing contrast. That’s what excites me. Many different types of elements, blended in a way that makes each one seem more like itself than it would on its own.

Had my Polybrute 6 months, but it didnt last. As others say - on paper its great, in reality iuf falls short - at least for me.

6 Voices isnt a problem for me really - BUT I just couldnt get on with its sound at all, I didn tlike the rubber matrix buttons or the keybed.

From what Ive heard the UBxa sounds much nicer - and I do like the OB sound (I have the OB6) but no onboard FX rules it out for me personally. If that wasnt an issue - for pure sound the UB, even if the polybrute is more flexible. I GENERALLY find (with very few exceptions) the more flexible something is the worse its core sound is.

Then the UB-Xa should be right up your alley Beanz

One thing I noticed a long time ago is that this seemed to be the case. When I stripped a patch to an initialized state, the complex synths seemed to not be as good. However, in practice this was not the case. The lack of a really big sound was actually a plus when making complex sounds, especially polyphonic sounds.

That said, I disagree with your assessment of the PolyBrute. When I was working to trim down my synth collection, I carefully put it up against several other instruments that are considered very good analog synthesizers. I mostly compared the ladder filter, and I was really surprised by how close I could get it to my Dominion 1. The only place it sounded worse to me was when doing fm cross-mod. I had to be really careful about the levels, but when I was, I was able to get it to sound exactly the same in many instances. I suspected this was the case, because I have dealt with similar situations in other synths. Gain staging can have profound consequences for many instruments. If you’re going to start cranking oscillators all the way up and expecting warm, silky sounds, you’ll be disappointed.

Could you elaborate on how you’d use this? I’m curious how PolyAT would benefit the morph vs channelAT? Wondering if there is some functionality I’m unaware of. Finally jumping back into the PolyBrute soon (got a Noir with cosmetic damage and swapping it out for a Regular next week).

Really looking forward to FW 3.0. I’m one of the weirdos that likes the core Polyrbute sound so I can’t wait to try out the recent improvements.

On-topic I think the PolyBrute is the better buy, but I’d only buy from a place with a good return policy because QC is all over the place with these. This coming one will be #5 for me but the Noir did seem like the keybed was a bit better than I remember models from 2 years ago, so maybe they made some improvements there or I just didn’t mind it as much this time. It’s no Fatar TP-8 but it’s workable.

The PolyBrute doesn’t have true polyphonic aftertouch, but it does have duophonic aftertouch, which is a trick where the last note played controls aftertouch, and other held notes have no effect. Polyphonic aftertouch from something like the new Native Instrument Kontrols will give you individual aftertouch for each voice It’s hard to really describe how this works in practice, but you can hold a chord and bring it to life by putting pressure on notes individually. It can be simple, like filter cutoff, or using the morph, you can completely transform the notes into new sounds. A little or a lot. The duophonic mode on the PolyBrute is actually pretty good. Good enough to get an idea of what I’m talking about.

All the stock patches are absolutely slammed and sound flat and awful. I load them up, then immediately lower the VCA sustain and sometimes a small amount of OSC level, then turn the "patch volume" back up (which is really just a reduction) so I get the volume back, and it sounds unbelievably glorious and nuanced and I've played plenty of other excellent synths.

Now please... I am not singling you out, but your comment is a good opportunity to say that I'm almost sure most people who couldn't get on with the sound never figured this part out, especially if it was a first hardware poly. They are quite different from software and sure sound significantly better, even these modern ones, once you learn they saturate internally like you are recording a mic'd instrument to a desk. I was shocked when I figured this out, how it came alive, and how badly clipped and distorted the stock sounds are. I honestly don't know how they made it out the door.

I'll never sell it, and have a hard time wanting to buy anything new because "can I make that sound on the PolyBrute? Why yes, I certainly can and it sounds incredible!" makes it difficult to justify another analog poly until the day comes along we see something even more impressive.... and uuuhh, I'd rather just not risk any GAS over the Moog One because of the price.

I'm also one of the people who don't mind 6 voices, considering what kind of flexibility it otherwise brings and the sound is so big and lush, there isn't much room for more...... though to be able to say it had 8 would be nice!

That said, I hope people carefully tweak UB-Xa, find the sweet spots and absolutely impress us because I believe it would be a pretty good option for a beginner's synth that isn't completely stripped down and still has a keyboard.

I don’t use presets but whenever I looked at Arturia’s sound design in the PB the oscillators and filter levels were maxed.
I wouldn’t want to use the VCA sustain to reduce volumes as that messes up your ability to make slow amp attack sounds.

I guess this was Arturia’s preemptive strike against the “weak core sound” squad.

Well, I’ll join moirearty in proclaiming myself one of the weirdos who likes the core sound, I don’t get it but perception of this thing is clearly of the Marmite variety.

Yeah, it’s just weird to me how so many of the factory presets ended up sounding so same-y with that slightly hard and brittle edge when I can get so much more warmth and nuance. The PolyBrute was the last analog poly I added to my rig and I’ve not had any serious GAS for any further analog polys since. Maybe something with a Roland OTA type filter is the only flavour I’m missing in hardware form.

With a little bit of familiarity, this is probably just enough to make this feature quite expressive, in a manner similar to older (pre-MIDI) synths' high CV / low CV functionality. Nine times out of ten, polyphonic aftertouch has been useful to bring a single note out of a chord, or the upper / lower note; the Arturia feature described here would definitely be useful (though is likely constrained to local operation).

Pretty good beginner’s synth? Bit patronising. I’ve got 25 years of using synths under my belt and have used a lot of different ones - I think it is an amazing synth and am very much looking fwd to getting one, and most of the people have bought one and are thoroughly enjoying it on the UB-Xa thread also are hardly newcomers to the synth world. Sounds like snobbery talking to me.

I guess it is a beginners synth in a similar way to a Juno 106 is in that it has a very stripped back feature set that means it's easy to dial in new sounds and that it's comparatively affordable. Also far more giggable than a PolyBrute.

If I was advising a beginner looking to buy their first hardware analog, and if they were into synthwave or 80s power pop, then I would recommend them the UB-Xa over a PolyBrute. The reality is that it is also going to appeal to a lot of people who are in no way beginners, but maybe aren't into the complexity of something like the PolyBrute. There are plenty of people who are in no way new to synths that haven't really got their heads around getting the best out of the PB.

Is the EQ on the Polybrute done in DSP? If that has been added to get it sounding good then that's a bit of a red flag to me.

https://support.arturia.com/hc/en-us...in-update-2-0-

AFAIK, yes. I don't see it as a downside, but rather a convenient feature. You can set & forget it (everybody's got a personal preference of how analog synth should sound), you can use it as an additional tilt filter on the individual patches, etc. All this in the box, no need to mess with a computer.

It doesn’t need that to sound good and didn’t before it was added, I’ve never used it.

It could have been worse. He could have said, “a good synth for simpletons.”

I don’t think it was meant to be condescending. It is a pretty good beginner’s synth in comparison to a PolyBrute. My first synth was Juno 106. I can’t imagine what I would have done with a PolyBrute, had it been given to me in 1983. I’d have been fairly lost, even though I had a class in basic synthesis. No YouTube tutorials… it was dark times.

I personally like simple(ish) synths as well as complex ones. As someone mentioned, simpler synths tend to be sweet-spot synths. You sort of have to be that, as there’s really not much else. Something like the PolyBrute isn’t a sweet spot synth, although it has many sweet spots. It’s not a synth where you can crank up the oscillators, Brute Factor and Metalizer and out pops a lush sound. It’s like a cat. Approach it gently, and it can purr and chirp. Grab its belly, and you’re going to get some claws and teeth. The UB-XA is like a dog. Pet it, wrestle with it, rub its belly, it’s all good. Cats and dogs are good pets.

I mean speaking personally I owned an andromeda for 10 years and really enjoyed programming a few banks of my own patches for it, and that is about as complex as an analogue poly gets. I did enjoy the depth of sound design possibilities and do miss it but never quite loved the sound - it was certainly decent sounding but something about it just always slightly niggled for my tastes. Would still rather have one than not but the prices are ridiculous these days (and I already sold mine for double what I paid for it new). I also built my own diy modular. So I do absolutely appreciate complex or odd synths and the polybrute looks very cool too. But yeah, as you say zc, no matter how into it all you are you also sometimes just can’t beat the immediacy of a simpler design that just hits the spot either. Both are good. Not sure it’s anything to do with experience. Also feel the more complex you get the more you get diminishing returns for analogue vs digital.

I think most of my observations are from a personal POV - my own tastes rather than a definitive assessment of PB. We all have different takes on whats noice and what isnt - whats great and what is just OK.

with the exception of the keybed I did like the PB - its just that when something had to go - that was the one I most easily could part with - I just didnt gell with it as some have, or as much as I have with other synths.

Of course, if we were all the same, we’d all have the same synth and all make the same music. It’s why these threads are a bit silly, as there are so many things that are subjective, or important to me, but maybe not to you.

Here’s why the PolyBrute has a home with me:

• Wide range of character. Everything from the gain structure to the dual filters is very good at making everything from hard and aggressive to round and funky.
  
• To bust modulation possibilities with an easy to use mod matrix.
  
• Morphing ability. Not sure why this isn’t a more common feature, but it isn’t.
  
• Polyphonic aftertouch ability. Lots don’t have it.

Now, here’s why I’d also own a UB-XA:

• Great Oberheim character
  
• Lots of voices
  
• Fairly flexible
  
• Polyphonic aftertouch keyboard
  
• Inexpensive

So, why didn’t I buy it? I’m very happy with the Oberheim emulsions I own. The keyboard quality is an unknown to me. I’ve heard good things, but not from a trusted source. Synth voices are not in short supply here. In theory, it could replace my Prophet 6 and master controller (Kontrol S61 MK3), but then I’d miss the character of the 6, which is pretty unique, and the software integration of the Kontrol. Both of those things are important to me.

I see great deal of discussion here is about Polybrute general sound that's not so good, whatever.. I guess some would like it to sound like Oberheim or Prophet.

I spent some time with it and I really enjoy it. Very different from others. I see it like a big brother of Deepmind 12, of course way more complex. As a analog poly, it can do some unique things, which is a great thing if you have some others at home so it doesn't get boring quickly. Worth the money, if you ask me. Will I buy it, don't know, maybe..

I understand that not every synth is for everyone, but I think people who are saying the Polybrute sounds meh should spend more time with one. I bought one last month and I've been losing sleep sitting up and programming this thing till 2-3 am. It's a very inspiring synth. It's so fun to program and experiment with that it'll be a while before I use it to get some "work" done. As others have said, the presets don't do it justice.

That being said, in answer to OP's question it's hard to compare the PolyBrute to the UB-XA or consider them in an either/or way. You buy the UB-XA for the brassy/bright/mellow/refined Oberheim sound. It's not a Swiss Army knife synth, but it has a lot of 80s synthwave/retro PBS TV promo sounding sweet spots. If you're like me and don't want to drop three grand on an OB6 then the UB-XA might be a good compromise. Plus for that price it's even worth it as a 61 key poly AT controller.

Besides, this is Gearsplutz. Buy them both.

Yeah... SORRY, didn't mean to make it sound condescending!

I was thinking about value (for a beginner who isn't into $3k to start), which Behringer seems to be definitely bringing with the UB-Xa, with poly aftertouch and everything.

I'm not even team anti-Behringer, and I'm sure the range of tones on it will be plenty wide for most people. I just also like sometimes getting "lost in space" programming and jamming all night with the PBrute, which I haven't had any other synth do that to me before.

As a GearSlut myself, I'd be fine owning UB-Xa and a Moog One too, if I had the room. I'm definitely not on any sort of elite team when it comes to studio space, unfortunately.

I returned the pro 800 very quickly... it sounded awful IMO. Maybe it was being mono and no FX... not sure

My real Prophet 600 didn’t wow me, until I paired it with a good chorus pedal. Then I got the chills!

Should have given it a bit more time IMO. It can easily sound really great with a bit of time programming. The presets are really bad. All poly synths need some fx to get the best out of them in my view but I’d rather put my own on them than rely on built-in ones.

Mono? That was your problem right there.

I looked at it like this.

I really like the mod matrix layout on the PB, and the morph function/controller etc..

Is that enough to be a better value in "tools" to me?

a PB needs to give me for $2600 the same as or better than a

UB-XA
TD-3MO
Pro-800
RD-8 MK2
RD-9

because all together they cost $2600 as well.

Not even close.

You’re right, completely different tools for doing different things. If you want a sound design monster the PolyBrute is a much better choice. If you want a some drum machines, a cool little acid synth and a couple of basic analogue polys then the pile of Behringer will suit your needs better. Or maybe just buy the lot because they are all useful tools that do different things.

You can self modulate them, or via another envelope postive or negative amounts and they react properly.
You can even use the attack of the modulating envelope to create a dual stage.

I gave the polybrute a try, but I found it to be harsh and uninspiring. Additionally, with only 6 voices, it's not ideal for live performance and it's quite expensive. On the other hand, I've been experimenting with the ub-xa and I really enjoy its sound. The 16 voices, including the poly aftertouch key bed, are amazing. As many have mentioned, the price is very competitive.
I've always wanted to experience the Oberheim sound, so when the ub-xa becomes available again, it will be my next synth.