I ended up moving away from my current setup (hardware synths + DAW) to try something different and got a pyramid sequencer with a blackbox as sampler/drumbox. They work OK, but I wish they were one device.

Entering the MPC one; got one on loan and I can do things that basically make the pyramid and the blackbox redundant. Although I see the strong points of both setup, and can't really decide if I should return the MPC one and keep the combo of BB + Pyramid; or if I should keep the MPC one and sell the other 2 (knowing that they are quite hard to sell, looking at how many you can find on sites like reverb).

Of the MPC one I like the fact that one box does it all; it is moderately small to fit on my desk and the touch screen is useful since it is large. As sequencer it is great, even if it does not have all the tracks of the pyramid, but I can make 64 sequences in each "track" (forgot the MPC lingo words); so that is great to plug in external synths. Also DAW integration is a breeze; I can export everything in a DAW and continue there

On the negatives; it is bulky, has a lot of things I do not use (I just need beatbox for drum parts, some occasional samples and sequencer features), and has only one midi out. Plus the MPC workflow takes a bit to get used to.

On the other side; the BB is a neat small device; takes little to get started and using it is a 10 minutes job. The Pyramid as sequencer is a lot of fun to use and very flexible, to control all my external gear and then push everything in the DAW or just use the SD card export function to midi.

On the negatives: the BB is underpowered, so if you want to do anything more than simple sketch and beats, it start to crackle and miss beats. At that price point I would expect more to be honest. In terms of sequencing, it is not on par either, with just 16 scenes, so you are limited to what you can do, but this is why I got the pyramid in the end.
Which takes me on the negatives of the pyramid; which are the small screen, the horrible pads and overall the workflow that require 2 hands to be operated, which is a stall for me since I am not a beat maker but a keyboard player, and I need to have my hands on the keyboard to play.

I do not play live, so all the live features are useless to me; I just need a way to sketch my external synths, and then export to DAW, and this is why I loved the MPC as concept.

I don't feel like keeping both setup because of space reasons, so I am having hard time to figure out what to keep. I want the flexibility of 2 dedicated devices, but that is also the major concern about the BB+pyramid setup. And for the MPC one, the concern is mostly on the side of having a device that was not made for what I use it for to be honest, so future updates may or may not be addressing my current shortcomings.

i have 3 midi outs and 3 midi ins on my MPC One when i hook up my midiplus x2 form Amazon (£27)

48 channels

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MIDI-2x2-US...417378&sr=8-37

Keep the MPC. You might appreciate the other features later on.

Nice! I didn't know the new firmware was doing that! I think I was still on the 2.5 firmware.

Indeed with all those ports, I don't really need the pyramid; so I can safely keep the MPC One. Thanks!

I like never use my squarp pyramid, but I like having it.

I like it but it is an extra device. I bought the Blackbox to have in one box the sampling; drum machine and hardware sequencer; but it ended up being a disappointment on the sequencer side; so that's why I bought the pyramid to integrate the lackluster sequencing of the blackbox.

Clearly the MPC one is doing what both those 2 devices do, so I think I will invest in it and keep it

whatever works best for you is the right choice.

Just gonna pop in and say that sequencer decisions aren't easy. I find buying synths/samplers much easier for me, but sequencers is a completely different animal and much harder. Each one has a different workflow and ways of doing the basic things we want so you always have to keep buying and trying these hardware sequencers until one clicks. Number 1 thing is to trust your gut. Also trust when you let it sit for months and then come back to it and still don't like it. That's another indicator that it should be sold.

I just sold my Akai Force, but many people seem to like it. I couldn't ever get on with it's workflow. You mentioned some similar negative things that I experienced with the Force. Too much continual button pressing. Sampling wasn't easy on it (with multiple hardware button and screen button pressing). Too much setup and menu diving to do stuff. Also a big detractor for me was that the screen just wasn't good enough for inputting sequences like I hoped. I felt I needed a stylus to do that. Pinching and unpinching the screen to make it bigger and smaller for step sequence input was a major pain. Also I didn't like the sampling sound quality. Sounded like a softsynth to me. Also hated the softsynth sound quality. They sounded like 2010 subpar softsynths imo.

I'm a hardware synth person, but also a software sequencer person. I regrettably say, a DAW will still give me a bigger screen and basically any command is assignable to any button (for the functions I use most). Very customizable. I realized Logic, with Logic Remote now having been updated with the ability to enter steps of the step sequencer with your fingers on the iPad, was the best for me. When I want the hardware touch, I use my Deluge which is the king of drum sequencing imo. Extremely quick because you have 8 tracks of 16 steps visible at all times. One knob scrolls to as many other tracks as you want. Another knob scrolls to show steps past 16 steps. I wish it had an LCD screen, but even without that, it's not needed for much of the sequencing. Have an Akai LPD8 for finger drumming.

A hardware sequencer I would want would be the 8x16 buttons of the Deluge, the scrolling functions from the Deluge, the Pyramid (or Yamaha RM1X) midi functions, 2-8 drum pads, and an LCD screen or touch screen (but not for entering in steps of a step sequencer). Unfortunately the only thing that meets that is Logic + Deluge or Logic + Logic Remote. So there is no all in one box for me. Some people have liked the Force as being an all in one box, but I find it too cumbersome.

The lesson with sequencers is to not to let it sequence you. You should be able to tell it what to do like you want. Working with limitations is cool, but you do end up sounding like said limitation, which is why I like to have more control over my gear so my stamp is created on my music rather than the other way around.

When I bought my Force used, the studio I bought it from were in the middle of making a track in Ableton with Push 2 when I arrived to pick it up. I asked him why he was selling it and he told me he still felt the Ableton Push 2 combo was the quickest most fluid workflow. I can totally see why after using the Force myself.

These days, without having used some other sequencers like the Cirklon, I recommend a combo of Ableton/Push2, Logic/Logic Remote, or the Deluge/LPD8 with any DAW. Or even a trio of the Deluge/Ableton/Push2. Though many times I like beating out drum patterns on a keyboard. I'm not into clips/loops mainly because I like to make subtle variations of a pattern and don't find that easy with hardware, unless it's the Deluge.

This can take a while to figure out what hardware sequencer (or software) works best for you. I think most all of us will tell you there's no one sequencer that will do most of what you want. So the best thing to do is to pick the sequencer/option that does the functions that are important to you and performs those functions the quickest/easiest. Workflow is king in the sequencer world.

The more hardware I use, the more I prefer ones that specialize in one thing instead of try to do everything at the expense of workflow / it's main purpose, like the Force.

Thanks for the hints; lots of good thoughts here.

I agree with you; to me the device need to work as workflow first of all; I can live with quirks and weirdness because whoever make the firmware will always pour that into a device; so the workflow is based on what "they" think it works, and they may have a different workflow from mine.

I tried Ableton; and in some ways I like the concept; but what I don't like is the implementation. Got a launchpad to try out Ableton to its fullest (the push never got me interested; it is a 600 dollars non-standalone midi button board after all; kinda like the Maschine Mk3, but that is almost half the price), and overall it is serviceable but what kills me is the movements to do in between playing.

I lost the count of the times when I am playing my master keyboard; getting a great groove, record it in a clip and then get lost because I have to do some operations on the DAW or on the hardware. This is why I got the pyramid, since it is a one stop thing that take me away from the computer; you just keep going. Although as you said; then you have to face the workflow issue, and the pyramid for me started to be a bit clunky; especially if you want to set up midi signals to change parameters and instrument. I just want a "push the record and get all the parameters I modify recorded"; which is not what the pyramid does; for most part.

With the MPC, I went back to that immediate feeling of making music that I had with the pyramid; because you have one device; it does drumbox duties so I can lay a beat and move my left hand from the pads to my master keyboard and keep going immediately; and swapping tracks is a breeze with one hand, thanks to the touchscreen.

But then you start to see the clunky interface negatives and got stomped again, lost in double button press and touchscreen that while great for tapping on it; it is not usable without a stylus; especially to select things, delete, modify and move notes around. I assume once you get proficient that should be OK; but I never had a MPC before so that workflow is pretty different for me.

Heard of the circlon but it is hard to find and expensive; and from the videos I watched; it is not exactly what I call immediate. Remind me of the midibox a lot; even the buttons look very similar.

I was looking for a Deluge but never found one at a reasonable price; it seems to be the standard of synths sequencers, and rightfully so. If I may ever find one at a good price, I am definitely going to try it out.

I guess I need to sit down with my hardware and figure out exactly what is that I really need absolutely, and what is not necessary; and decide from there. As you said, there is no perfect device; so I have to compromise. Next time if I win the lottery, I would love to make my dream device

So how does this interface works? You connect it to your computer and you are able to address 32 midi channels on the 2 ports?

Because if I plug the out from the MPC one to this box; that means that anything that goes to port 1 for example, is the same that goes to port 2, isn't it?

So if you have a polyphonic synth that support 16 channels connected to this box on one of the output, and you have on port 2 other synths that respond to different channels; when you play something from the MPC, aren't you triggering both midi out on this device at the same time, causing whatever instrument respond to a channel you are using, to trigger at the same time on port a and port b?

With USB connections it seems it is much easier, since the MPC see the ports; so if you want pad 1 to trigger channel 2 on port midi 1, and pad 2 to trigger channel 2 on port midi 2, you can do that

i use it with my akai mpc one, not using a computer for music in 2021 but i bet just like the mpc it's plug n play

I don't think u need the black box. I would flip the mpc1 for a mpc force, and I would keep the pyramid. You can feed affected sequences into the force to record and play back, with a nice 5*5 usb midi interface connecting the force as master of several synths and drum synths. Very powerful.

Oh, I see, so you plug directly the interface in the USB host of the MPC; I understand now. I thought you were using midi only

Thanks; so you suggest a Force? I was looking at it but it seems that it is nowhere near as flexible on the midi side like the One. Unless the new firmware did make things better.

I was looking at the force, since it has a ton of buttons and a workflow similar to ableton live; keeping some sort of similarity with the MPC software interface; although I heard only complains about it being a half baked device.

I am open to revisit it if the software did improve and it is doing what the One does, but with the added value of having a grid of buttons to save "clips"

They did a major 3.0.5 Force os release which is a quantum leap in features. Search on youtube for it, akai has videos going over all the new features.
Another 3.0.6 has added drum synths, which is nice to have built in now. Again, lots of bang for the buck on that? I bought 2 used (very clean) before the latest os dropped, so I got good deals. One is for a friend so we can collaborate.

The newest update has a lot of features that make it complete standalone DAW. I think it's definitely the most complete hardware DAW-like sequencer we'll ever find. The Synthstrom Deluge is too, but just without the screen, which can be quicker to use than the Force is you don't mind not having a screen.

The new Force update makes it nice for sequencing tons of hardware synths and now has an Arranger/Song mode to record all your clips into a full song. The Force is great, but like I mentioned before you have to like the workflow. I decided to sell it and simplify my focus being that the Force has more of a learning curve than the Deluge (at least for what I use it for).

If I were you, I would forego the MPC One and try the Force instead. It's basically an MPC, but with dedicated step sequencer buttons, dedicated drum pads still (like the MPC), and 16 levels assigned to pads. That is one of the many configurations you can have the 8x8 pads be. You can even have the 8x8 pads be 64 steps of a track's sequence visible and editable all at one time. The Deluge can't do that, but the Force can't show 8 tracks each with 16 steps at one time. So there's a trade off.

I need to get more into my Pyramid, but the Force and Deluge might be a solid sequencer combo or the Pyramid with one of these. It's good to keep trying sequencers.

Even though I sold my Force, just having owned it allows me to at anytime (in the future) draw upon my experience with it (which was decent) and know if it could be useful for how I work at that time. I could buy it back in the future knowing what I wouldn't use it for (being that there were things I didn't like about it) and buy it for a specific purpose, in my case, only sequencing. I ultimately felt like it was more than I needed and all the extras got in the way of the workflow of what I wanted to use it for. Besides that, it really did what I wanted it to, but just in a way I didn't prefer. That combined with there being so many many many ways you can configure it (which is a plus and minus), it took some time getting used to. The plus of that is that you can make many things on it, work the way you want it to. The minus of this is that it takes time to learn it. OTOH, the Deluge was almost instant for me, but it can be deep too depending on what you want to do.

Also, it seemed I couldn't find the right sensitivity of the pads. There was no middle ground for me. I would either hit it and it the velocity would be soft or it would register at high velocity. I had a hard time getting it in that middle ground (50-75% velocity level).

I never really got it why some people like The Synthstrom Deluge .. looks a complete nightmare to create full songs with it.



how i'd be able to create my recent songs on it i simply cannot imagine...









i think i could probably do similar on a roland verselab though.

The Force is the best studio brain Ive came across

Pros
32 channels usb midi output
32 channels midi 5 pin output
Usb audio interface support, 32 channels input/output (in beta)
64 pads, decent sensitivety plus a plethora of different uses (scales, progessions etc)
Full arranger
Disk streaming for audio (in beta)
Easy workflow navigated with plenty of feedback from the large screen.

Cons
Arranger is a little clunky using a 7" touch screen
Sequencer while simple to use us also a bit simple
Fx and instruments are mostly based on Air products, ymmv.
Its not small!

Some of this is in the MPC, some of it will be in the future, but 8x8 beats 4x4 for me every time when it comes to melodic tracks and sequencing.

I know what you're saying and that's fair. A lot of people see the lack of screen and think it's going to suck. What they did with the software of this instrument is genius though. I would've never thought of some of the ideas that they came up with. And it clicked instantly with me, as in, in my mind it made total sense how the Deluge was guiding me to making a track.

I'm curious what your initial 'nightmare' thoughts are of it. Most likely your thoughts are fair because it looks like it can't be easy to use, but sequencing-wise it actually is really fluid and quick, moreso than any sequencer I've ever tried.

you're doing a great job keeping my hand above but not down on the buy button for the verselab/mc707 and making me look sideways to a Akai force.

I think the mv is a cool little tool too, and I love the Roland sounds Zencore/SN/SRX/AX all in one wee box...it doesnt really compete in the same sphere imho, but it also $300 less. Would be a fine partner for your mpc one though. If you werent using external gear I wouldnt go with the Force, but if you are? Game over

Whoa...disk streaming is on deck? Holy sh*t, they did it. Akai still owning the market!

is this confirmed and working in the beta, will this be in the mpc?

That's pretty huge. I failed to assimilate with the MPC both times I tried it, but I'm legit happy for all you owners. You waited a long time for it, and that will open up lots of possibilities for you all

I hope Roland discovers whatever alien artifact/ancient rune/dark magic that let Akai stream off the disk. The 707 will be an absolute powerhouse if it can break the 60 second looper limitation.

Yup, I honestly didn't think it would happen and was extremely happy with the Force as is...Akai just taking it to another level.

I agree with a lot of this, it’s really tough to make a “hardware DAW” or whatever folks want to call it.

That said, the thing to know about the Push is that it’s a Session View focused device. So once you record your track into arrange so you can mix..etc, the Push is really not that viable.

I only mention this because it basically is the same workflow as building a track on a traditional MPC, or Cirklon..etc and recording into the Ableton arrange mode.

So if you don’t need deep integration with ableton plugs, you can basically achieve a similar workflow with the hardware of your choice. To me, the Push is pretty damn expensive for what it is. The MPC Live can be found used for less, and it does way more - hell, so can a 1000 with JJOS on it. Plus you aren’t chained to your computer for them to work.

But yeah, I agree. Just sharing alternatives for a very similar workflow.

I just checked their video and indeed it is quite similar to what the MPC one does now. You can connect up to 32 midi devices, which is quite huge.

Although some of my synths are midi DIN only, but I can still use the MIDI port at that point. What is not clear to me though is if you can use both MIDI ports as different output (midi out and midi thru); because that would be basically matching the 2 midi out of the pyramid.

It is more expensive than the One though... Getting almost into MPC live territory; so what would it offer more than a One ?

I can see that; I saw the Force last time in the first review videos and most were dismissing it because it was not able to drive external gear efficiently, and was fundamentally an attempt from Akai to make a clone in hardware of Ableton, but with much less features. Now it is much more useful indeed!

And from the UI the Force is quite similar to the One; to be honest the MPC workflow may be OK but it make more sense to me the workflow of the Force. And with the linear sequence output; that is fundamentally matching my DAW workflow (using both Ableton live and Cubase).

The deluge is cool but no screen is not ideal. I don't like touch screen; but no screen at all is equally bad But from what I can see, you don't really need a screen anyway; since most features are used via pads; and for a sequencer it is more than enough. I just don't know if I would enjoy it, and the price point is quite high to give it a try and file the loss :P

Isn't the Force using 128 total channels like the MPC (8 audio channels max)?
Also disk streaming is quite the thing, is there a demo out there that show that feature?

The screen size does not worry me since the arrangement part would be mostly to get things tidy to export to DAW; I don't foresee myself ever use just a tiny screen to build the whole song start to finish

I think that it make sense as sequencer; but as instrument in general it looks quite intimidating to be honest

Plus it require a lot of muscle memory; I can play some of my synths in the dark and know where everything is; but here with just buttons and not lights for the labels, you have to learn everything by heart