Thanks, kpatz, for the reply and patch migration advice.

I've read on several forums that the Sirin's oscillators are volts per octave and the Minitaur's are volts per herz, which is why (according to them) the two sound a bit different in the low end. I haven't read any corroboration from Moog or a Moog rep, though.

If that's true, and if the Minitaur sounds noticeably deeper, I'm a little sorry I didn't get one instead. I bought my Sirin mostly for weight in the lower register, but I'm still looking forward to trying it out in the higher ones.

Meanwhile, I keep getting the dreaded "Hardware Disconnected" error. I can twiddle knobs in the editor and the sound does change, but I can't save a preset when I create one. I'm wondering if it's my E-RM Multiclock or perhaps its settings. Changing MIDI and USB ports seems to make no difference, nor does changing the cables or restarting on my MacBook Pro. I can try it with my Windows laptop for diagnostic reasons, but my music setup is on the Mac and swapping laptops would be problematic.

I've read this too and it's mostly conjecture, as we don't really know what lies inside the circuits of the Minitaur/Sirin. All we do know is the Sirin uses the exact same PCB as the Minitaur, with a few components substituted (probably resistors and capacitors that control the range/scale of the oscillators), and the firmware tweaked accordingly.

The original Taurus used V/Hz, and someone once said that the Minitaur's range couldn't be expanded because it also did. But that's just poppycock, since regardless of the CV slope (linear or exponential), it's the scale that determines the ultimate range. Given a 0-5V CV range, you could have (approx) 0-5000Hz range if 1V = 1000 Hz, or 0-20000Hz range if 1V=4000Hz. Same for V/Oct, depending on how many "octaves per volt" it's internally scaled to.

Many (most?) VCOs are V/Hz internally at the core, and they gain V/Oct via a converter circuit. Look at any modular VCO that offers both linear and exponential CV inputs. I think the CEM3340 chip is like this as well.

Interestingly, the Sirin has a wider range over MIDI than via the CV in. The CV in has a 0-5V range so you can span 5 octaves over CV, but it can go wider via midi, so we know internally it's not using 1V/Oct. All the CV ins are digitized and routed by the CPU, so the internal scale could be altogether different.

It sings high and low.

Musically, that video is infinitely better than the official one (which I didn't hate; I just thought Moog chose to showcase novel sounds at the expense of the Sirin's ultimate/practical sonic strengths). Too bad that marketing "had a vision."

Perhaps next time, Moog will call Mr. Goldman. It would be fun to see him enjoy the next instrument they choose to make.

Dan posted the vid himself in this very thread last november.

Moog Sirin

Why would they do that?

Moog Style Synths: What are your thoughts?

They should make it paraphonic as Novation did with the Bass Station 2. Then they would sell to anyone, me included

Using the Sirin, I've noticed it can meld with preexisting recordings of bass synth lines, lending weight that the previous sounds lacked without calling attention to itself.

I've also appreciated the thickness of higher sounds. The extended range doesn't sound like a gimmick because the body of the higher sounds can be so useful. It can warm higher lines as synths designed for upper-register assertiveness often don't.

Something I don't appreciate is what seems to be the lack of troubleshooting done with the Mac editor. Admittedly, I'm still running High Sierra, but I haven't had issues with other synth editors, interfaces, MIDI or any of it. And Logic and Live recognize my Sirin without issue.

The editor ran on my Windows laptop instantly, recognized my Sirin and loaded its patches without displaying the dreaded Hardware Disconnected message.

I've tried multiple ports and USB cables with the MBP and nothing seems to make the Mac editing software recognize the hardware. The Sirin seems to get along fine with DAWs and interfaces, both with MIDI and USB. The Mac editor for the Sirin alone doesn't seem to work.

If you look at the FAQs for the Sirin and the Minitaur, you'll see that they address the Hardware Disconnected error on Windows but don't even touch on what to do if the problem occurs on a Mac.

It's certainly possible that I've missed something; that despite the implications of my tests, it is I who has done something incorrectly. But if not, I hope that Moog will address the issue even though this is now a limited-run legacy instrument. One of the main virtues of the Sirin, one of the main arguments against it being overpriced, is software/hardware integration, so Moog should make sure that integration works for everyone.

Just to be clear, it has to be hooked up via USB for the editor to see it. I'm on Mojave and don't have any trouble assigning the editor as a plugin on a track in Logic.

Yes, and I reported that I'd used USB -- not just plugging the Sirin into a USB port, but into every USB port on my MBP and then into a hub connected to a USB port just for kicks.

Again, you seem not to have understood why I mentioned running a legacy MBP with High Sierra even though you yourself have touched on my reason. I mention this not because you've missed my point, which could happen to anyone, but because you're practically making my point, which seems odd under the circumstances.

A lot of software made for multiple iterations of an OS varies from version to version. If you own Elektron gear, then you've followed the vicissitudes of Overbridge working with this iteration of the Mac OS, then that iteration, then neither just as a new feature is introduced. Overbridge is constantly revised, yet it still has these issues on occasion.

Meanwhile, the Minitaur and the Siris are just different enough to warrant differect software editors and there appears only ever to have been one version of the Sirin editor.

Why, then, would you presume that yours was the only viable experience on a Mac and your iteration of the OS indicative of the compatibility of every single version?

I use the Minitaur editor on a 2014 MBP running High Sierra and have never had any issues. There is likely only one version of the Sirin editor because the Sirin is new - I don't need to run an older version of the Minitaur editor for High Sierra, the latest version available has always worked.

In the editor, if you go into Settings > Editor Settings, and look within MIDI Input and MIDI Output, you don't see the Sirin?

Not quite... just recently Moog released an update for both the Minitaur and Sirin editors to add compatiblity with the latest Mac OS (Catalina). Maybe some of the other Mac issues are fixed as well? Try downloading the latest editor.

I haven't had any connectivity issues with my Sirin and my DAW or the editor, but I use Windows. Interesting... usually Windows is the butt of jokes regarding things breaking/not working...

I didn't presume anything, just offering up a Mac experience.

Perhaps I could have elaborated and clearly asked if you had tried using the Sirin editor as a plugin in Logic to see if the Sirin is accessible that way or not.

I get that you're frustrated, but you can <moderated> with that tone.

In fact, that is exactly what has been happening: the Sirin doesn't even appear under settings no matter which USB port I use directly with whichever USB B Male to A Male cable I try. I've been working all week, hence the diagnostic silence, but this weekend, I'll try a few things recommended by you and others and by a rep. from Moog as well.

I wondered whether there had been an update since I last downloaded the editor, so I checked. Sadly, the version I have installed is the one to which Moog's latest email (5/12/2020) links: v. 1.10.

Sirin works perfectly for me on Windows as well, and I grew up using Macs on sessions.

I've always hated it when people chant "it just works." My first question (to myself, not them) would be, "what does one do when it doesn't "just work" -- esp. under a deadline?

< moderator message - @ anonymous161 @ Scrypt please chill? there's no need for hostilities. thanks >

Yes please, we all know that software compatibility issues can sometimes be maddenind, but no need to fight over it... after all, this is supposed to be a Messenger of Joy!

Edit: Oh, I see. Reptil isn't talking only to me, but to both parties whom Reptil felt were arguing. I can understand that. I let the other party have the last word for the same reason Reptil posted his request: to get past the possibility of a skirmish. Apologies for my part in it, which I hadn't realized could be taken pejoratively.

I have a noob question for any Siren owners.

I play my Siren with a Linnstrument. I cannot get the release function to work? The note plays when I am pushing the key but stops when I take my finger off the key. THere is no release no matter what I do. I have set the POT's to maximum release and pressed and unpressed the release function button.

Is it possible that the Siren came set somehow wrong and I need to use the editor to get the release to work?

Do you mean sustain or release? There's no sustain button on the Sirin. Are you talking about on the Linnstrument?

If you hold a note and the note keeps sounding that's sustain (using a sustain pedal is the same as holding the note).

When you release the note, the release stage of the envelope kicks in and the note fades out at the release rate, which is controlled by the decay/release knob. On the Sirin the default is you only get release in the envelopes when the release button/LED is lit. There is another mode where decay and release are decoupled and you control each with the knob depending on whether the release LED is lit.

Yes sorry. Im a permanent old man noob.

It is the release function that will not work on either of the Sirens I have. Yes I am using a Linnstrument but I suspect the problem is on the Siren not the Linnstrument.

On mine, release works as described in the manual.
Check if you're into Decay/Release Mode 1 or 2, the button works slightly differently in each of them.

From the manual:
DECAY/RELEASE MODES
Press and hold the RELEASE switch for 1 second to change modes. The RELEASE switch LED will blink one
time to indicate Mode 1, or two times to indicate Mode 2.
MODE 1: Decay and Release times are linked and the RELEASE switch enables or disables the Release
stage of the envelope.
MODE 2: Decay and Release times are independent. If RELEASE is lit, the DECAY/RELEASE knob is
editing Release time. If RELEASE is dark, the DECAY/RELEASE knob is editing Decay time.


Other than that, if you have two Sirins (love that!) and they both show the same behaviour it's highly unlikely that they are both defective (and with exactly the same defect!), I'd guess the problem is either in your Linnstrument settings or somewhere else along the control chain.

I would try looking at the output of the Linnstrument via a midi monitoring program, it's possible it is sending something like an all notes off message or CC message when you release all pads. Do the Sirins release appropriately when played via other things?

Im still having trouble with my Sirens. Im pretty sure I can figure it out but need access to teh Siren editor.

I am having trouble downloading the midi driver. I get to the last step where it says to complete installation i must disconnect and reconnect the device and no matter how many times i disconnect and reconnect the midi cord to the computer it wont allow me to finish the installation.

Any suggestions for this problem?

PC or Mac? When you are "disconnecting and reconnecting" the Sirin is it a MIDI cable or a USB cable?

You only need a driver for USB, and as I recall in Windows, it installed itself, or is class compliant and didn't need a driver. I don't know about Mac. If you're connecting a midi cable (to an external USB Midi adapter) you'd need a driver for that adapter, not the Sirin itself.

If you're using USB, are you going through a hub or straight to the computer?

Its a usb to midi converter cable. Its windows and it should install itself but is not doing so. the last step is you are required to unplug and reconnect the device. it does not specify what device so i can only assume it means the midi cable so i have done that several times and have not been able to complete the install.

im not using a hub just a usb to midi converter cable and this approach has worked in the past with my mini taur. this is very frustrating.

Is there a reason you're using a USB Midi adapter instead of connecting the Sirin directly with USB?

If the adapter works with other synths like the Minitaur, it should work exactly the same as with the Sirin. Note that to use the editor, you'll need to connect the Sirin's USB directly, not going through a USB Midi adapter, since the Sirin (and Minitaur) only have a midi in, not out, and you need connectivity in both directions to use the editor.

If you're having trouble getting drivers for your USB Midi adapter, look on the website for the manufacturer of the USB Midi adapter.

delete mistaken post.

delete

is there a way to set the Siren so that the settings are the same when you turn it back on as when you turned it off? i don't use presets or anything and just want it to be at a certain baseline and then go from there live as i only play live.

how do i go about making that happen?

Not really, but it does boot up to the "manual" preset, so if the knobs are where you want them, it will boot up to the current knob settings.

Otherwise, store your preferred settings in a preset and use a Midi program change or Glide+Waveform buttons to select after booting.