Super impressed with how things are going with protools, I was complaining as a HD user not getting much for the new subscription plan, but with all the recent updates and integrations with others plugins they have really pulled things together(so thanks much for listening avid). Industry wide, I think this is a major milestone for ambisonics rolling out get to full market place traction to millions/billions of end users.

So I've been playing around with the 12.8.2 protoolshd update which was made available today ... and .... WOW. It's bringing in all the pieces. I'm still playing around with the pathing and options, but so far it seems like everything I've tried is working. Getting the routing takes a bit of brain tweeking, as it's slightly different.

One thing I haven't exactly figured out is how to do reverb, I am doing the ambisonic master right now, but what I may do is do most things in 7.1 then route that to ambisonic ... but I'm still playing around.

Some links:

Facebook 360 Spatial Workstation and Pro Tools | HD 12.8.2

https://www.facebook.com/SoundLibrar...0497902309716/

What’s New in Pro Tools 12.8.2 — Now Available

sweet. I wonder how this works with the dolby production suite's vr stuff. I dont know much about vr as I dont work in it but that may change in the next year. Nice to know this will be ready to go.

I was just testing this, the new ambisonic tracks are compatible in the same session as the dolby, but it's not obvious to me how to do a dolby send (which is a plugin thing from dolby) from a protools ambisonic track.

It's also interesting that most of the new plugins from avid partners (i.e. facebook) are installed by default on protools hd 12.8.2. As a warning though, the facebook plugins also upgraded with this 12.8.2, and my bet is they are not backward compatable and they do work a bit differently.

video explaining the facebook/avid integration in 12.8.2: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audio360support/

I'm finishing up two VR projects right now so a bit hesitant to install the update. I think I read you can have the old FB360 2.x installer along with the 3.0?

Tapwatr - I think the old & new versions of the plugin can exist alongside each other in the plugin folder (the new plugins have different names)

so I've been experimenting with the new FB360 template. I'm having trouble getting Protools to output the multichannel WAV file for the FB360 Encoder.

When I record the 3D Master channel in Protools the audio recording is made up of 8 mono WAVs (which have the 7.1 surround suffixes)

how do I convert these into a single file to import into the FB360 Encoder?

I have been having the same problem, not sure what I'm doing wrong. What I am doing now though is doing a 2nd order ambisonic track commit, then that file is showing up correctly in audio file directory (but I don't think this is the correct way of doing it).

As a side note, i'm on a mac pro trash can macOS 10.12.6, I don't think I'd want to try this on 10.13.

https://www.facebook.com/intellectua...6268566315656/=

This video explains the new system quite well.

From my understanding, I don't think you would. Unless the Dolby renderer now accepts Ambisonic format as an input for beds (the beta didn't) everything is an Atmos bed or object until rendering out B-format at the end, if you so choose.

I figured out that the process of converting the split surround file recorded by the Protools 360 template project is simple: just select it and “export regions as files” — and select “interleaved” in the dialog and it becomes a single file which can be loaded into the FB360 encoder

The file is 8 channel tho - not wrapped my brain around the second order ambi-X 9 channel File!

The last few days, I've been checking out PT HD 12.8.2 and its new ambisonic bussing. It goes up to 3rd order (16 channels), and 2nd and 1st orders can be subpaths to a 3rd order bus. So far, so good.

There's no PT-native ambisonic panners (encoders), manipulators (like total sound field rotation), or decoders, so we'll have to rely on third-party plug-ins for doing that. The AAX offer of Ambisonics plug-ins is not very substantial at this time, but the fact that PT HD is now officially ambisonic-friendly should get the ball rolling on that front.

To that end, I'm also beta testing the ambisonic plug-ins from Blue Ripple Sound in AAX format. Their whole range of plug-ins will be available soon for PT HD 12.8.2, including their basic, and free, "O3A Core" set.

Great news all around for Ambisonics aficionados!

This helped thanks, also the manual is pretty good resource that I'm reading a lot more carefully.


At this point I think your right, the bed needs to be dolby and the output goes ambisonic. I was trying to do ambisonic beds and couldn't do simple things like eq by elavation (i.e. eq my top speakers).


That's working, I think the 1st order workflow is fairly well tested but the 2nd order workflow is hard for me to test that with standard distributions formats I use.


I think this is the nail on the head, basic functions like EQ don't work on the current ambisonic beds, and there needs to be a whole host of new aax plugins to make this real. I can't wait for the blue ripple sound stuff to be aax compatible, I think I'm going to stop attempting ambisonic beds till those come out. On the positive side the dolby vr plugins work really well, but they are setup as a bit of a different world with plugin sends and such.

I'm not sure what you mean by that: have you tried multi-mono EQ plug-ins on ambisonic tracks?

Well one example is I have a ambisonic track 1st order of rain from a ambisonic field microphone. What I'd like to do is as the person looks down they rain is a bit more "crisper" with individual rain drops, while when the person looks up there's a bit of a "hush" on the rain. So, what I'd like to do is keep the eq the same on the horizontal, but probably boost the high's/lows below horizontal, then drop with a gate the highs when the person looks up. So if I am receiving a ambisonic track, I find it real hard to do that. What i'd like is to receive a 1st order track and convert it to a 2nd order ambisonic tracks and eq spaces in that. I have this all working when I'm going mono to ambisonic, but if I have a ambisonic bus I cant figure out how to eq spaces.

I do have a background in spherical harmonics, but looking up each channels harmonic lobes for something like a 2nd order ambisonic and placing eq's in mono on a lob without screwing something up is just is way too hard for me.

O3A Manipulators VST | Blue Ripple Sound

I can't figure out how to get a VST host for the 03A plugins to work with 12.8.2 ambisonic channels ? That must be some beta stuff, which I would love to try?

AAX version will be released in a few weeks.

With PT HD 12.8.2, I have some ambisonics plug-ins installed: Audio Ease 360pan, Blue Ripple Sound suite (beta), Facebook360, Harpex-X, Noise Makers Ambi Converter, Sennheiser Ambeo A-B Converter, SoundField Surround Zone 2.

Here's what's available in the Inserts Sound Field submenu, depending on the track format.

Mono


Stereo


Quad


1st order


2nd order


3rd order

That's an excellent list, definatly sticky worthy. I currently am using the new facebook360 and spanner a ton, but i'm more comfortable right now with pheonix reverb surround with neutron&ozone for 7.1.

One huge thing I'm taking away from the list is comparing the 2nd order vs the 3rd order as a bus standard. In Brian Schmidt's comments he said " ... That said, on systems where spatial accuracy is very important (eg VR games, etc), most people use 3rd order." Right now I can't really do much with a 2nd order given current plugins.

So I'm thinking that as far as a ambisonic bus, it looks like 3rd order is the way to go? Atleast that looks like the approach once the O3A set is released AAX.

This is how my ambisonic buses are shapping up:
mono track -> 7.1 track stem -> 3rd order stem -> all formats masters
quad track -> 7.1 track stem -> 3rd order stem -> all formats masters

At this point I'm not comfortable enough to skip the 7.1 stems, this also allows me to have seperate 7.1.2 stems fed from the 7.1 stem if I need that for atmos(and I like the atmos plugins a lot). hmm ... things are sure shaping up, thanks again for posting that list.

I didn't realize Blue Ripple had that many tools for ambisonics work. Looking forward to the AAX release even more now.

I've been btw working the ambisonic workflow through editorial, I was kind of surpised how nice it was putting on the oculus rift head set in premiere and quickly testing the cuts out in full 3d vr while I was editing. https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro...der_1711869371

Still early days but suprised a end to end workflow through editorial is functioning.

As I have been working through a cinematic audio workflow in premiere (with oculus) from protools I had a WOW moment, the blue ripple plugins work inside premiere pro. It's kind of amazing that we will have a full workflow of the blue ripple stuff in protools all the way through into premiere. I can see a bunch of things that are really too time consuming for me to go back and forth to protools from editing, and just do them in premiere. A great example would be if i got a 3rd order file from protools, and have my final edit in premiere, I can generate the different deliverables from premiere without going back to protools.

Maybe when blue ripple releases the aax plugins we could have a seperate thread on using blue ripple. I am also finding the blue ripple documentation to be excellent, there's a ton of basic info documentation, and also the plugin manuals are excellent as a general read to bring me up to speed. Technical Notes | Blue Ripple Sound http://www.blueripplesound.com/manuals

Hi and thanks for the lists - Ive been working my way thru a similar set of tests to try and work out what will do what and how from the recent introduction of ambisonic "compatabilities" in both PT and plugins. I do have a holygrail wishlist but havent found that yet.

Initially first try was with FB360 as it shows up on PT 1st orderbus - actually the only plugin for me that shows - yes it will allow me
to pan mono and play back my 1st order bformat files and play them back to a stereo/binaural output with a reasonable accuracy -
I cant see how to playback in real time thru any multiple speaker system whether standard 5.1 7.1 or custom - is this how it is ?
Speaker playback is essential for me for most projects

SurroundZone2 will do what its always done b4 12.8.2 and load on a quad track and decode the bformat to a choice of outputs but
it wont load on a 1st Order PT track as it doesnt show on the lists - Im assuming the PT ambisonic buses are no more than customised
audio buses that will only offer ambisonically tagged plugins ? Obviously useful for 2nd and 3rd order buses given PT has never offered the option of 9 and 16 channel buses.

I have tried GAudio ambisonic plug as well which work just like surroundzone but with less control

Harpex I cant test at the moment as my demo is telling me there is no internet but I remember its
binaural being top of my list a few years ago - and its speaker outputs more flexible than the others if
not customisable

I went to a demo of the Dolby Atmos ProdSuite before starting these tests and with a demo and examining
templates ive worked out the hidden bussing system it uses and really like the controllable 3d panning and visuals
it offers. At the demo they incorporated an ambisonic bed but i didnt realize it would have needed a plugin to create
the input to Dolby so didnt spot what was being used? As I cant get FB360 to output a 7.1 bed I found SurroundZone
will allow me to input my bformat audio allbeit horizontal and not 3d. The FB360 actually crashed protools a number of times
while testing what goes into the atmos renderer software.

I cant see any demos of AudioEase360 but Rapture looks very interesting when it comes along for AAX - I have played with
the freebies in Reaper before now but the limitations of speaker arrays 2 and 5.1 I think, means it would need to get close to
my grail to spend £600 for customisable outputs.


My interest in all this is abit out the box as im not doing games or DolbyAtmos but always keen to see how my 3D work can
be helped with the new tools. Having said that and though I have PTHD I worked wih BFormat for 5 years with a simple PT and
edited bformat on multi mono tracks before using SoundFlower to output to an ambisonic decoder along with midi control
of mono ambisonic panning to create master Bformat files using customisable Speaker formations

If the Occulus was mac friendly Id be trying that too will be doing a FB video as proof of madness -

thanks if my few questions can be answered

mick

Can you highlight you questions?

It was a bit of a ramble

Am I right that FB360 will only output to stereo not to 5.1/7.1 etc ?
Does Rapture Pro have customisable speaker outputs with distance ie xyz coordinates?
Patrick are using the occulus rift with premiere on a mac?


best

mick

See images for the outputs offered by the FB360 Encoder & Converter.

Speakers positions in Rapture3D can be specified in cartesian (XYZ) and polar (azimuth, elevation, radius) coordinates.

I did my oculus testing on windows 10, though I hear that it will be available on mac soon.

Thanks for this guys - Id seen the fb360 encoder page but was looking for multi output monitoring and the ability to pass that thru to dolby atmos in my tests - my need is to work with 4/6/8 speakers and maybe finish with headphones - I read that Harpex will do this but still havent got my trial working. Rapture advanced is promising

mick

Whitecat and Brian Schmidt hooked me up with tickets for gamesoundcon and I have a ton of notes I'm going through on. I'm not an expert in this field (so I can't really distill what people said) so will probably post in some new threads some themes I was able to pick up on. But as a hint for stuff from my notes, check out the "tracker" inside the object to ambient spatialiser that is now part of the beta release of the next rev of protools

[that's Varun Nair of facebook giving a absolutly awesome talk with Jon Ojeda also of facebook but out of frame]

Support for Pro Tools HD | Blue Ripple Sound

WOW ... I just downloaded and installed them on my mac pro sierra protools 12.8.2 and ran it with no problems.

I was woundering if we could ask someone at blue ripple (or you?) to start a thread and walk through some basics, and answer questions? For example, in my hd protools sessions i have most tracks as mono/objects, some ambient tracks are quad, most my reverbs are 7.1, other tracks are 2nd order in 12.8.2 and I'm just learning about 3rd order (and this is really the first plugin I have had that works on 3rd order). Some my questions are specific to protools, but I bet most of my questions are fairly generic in how to use 3rd order?

One question I have is when I use o3a to move between 2nd to 3rd it just "does it" with a small warning, I guess it just spreads the 2nd order harmonics into the 3rd order channels?

[I am wondering about how much error I introduce if I primarily have buses that are 2nd order, but flip sends to 3rd order to fix problems like directional eq, then back to 2nd order. Facebook360 did say they will be supporting 3rd order, but I don't have a timeline for that.]