Do not get the Nucleus, trust me I have one and its not good for the price.
Get Avis S3 and avid dock. Its a bit more money, But if you have any friends or teenage kids in education you can buy it in their name from avid at a very large discounted education price
Avid S3 - Compact 16-fader EUCON control Surface - Education

Count me in, I'm in the exact same boat, waiting, waiting... Going to do a purchase this year.
Scott

Sometimes these topics get offline and thats ok but what we have here is the premium DAW and the Premium Console maker as one. the fact that the console maker hasn't built a console controller for the DAW is just sad

yes you can have MCU or an artist series or a nuage but a new 24 track bankable controller motorized faders, normal transport control, pan, mute, solo, select etc would be so welcome. totally dedicated to Cubase and user friendly with otters daw's. again the nudge and the small n12 worked and work insanely well and deep with cubase and i have sat at both. i have had the MCU, a mixed logo 24 (very nice with cause), a full artist series setup, the n12 (symphony now), and i have the cc121. so i know all these other products. yamah makes great solid stuff and the fact they don't for cubase and home and project studios to me is sad.

hell the new live mixers with 32 motorized tracks, onboard DSP plugs, and all the rest for 4K could be converted and crush everything else if you use cubase or even nuendo in a small capacity

so sticking just to yamaha and cubase and home and project thats where i stand!

Any thoughts about this new DAW Control-Surface From Asparion ?

It looks good, simple, compact, and flexible.

https://www.asparion.de/en/electroni...l#tab_overview

Cheers,
Muziksculp

DO they have fader packs for it so you can add 8 at a time?

for me its to small, and its cheap looking. it could be made top end but i dont like the look.

hell at this point jsut make fader packs for the CC 121. convert the CC121 as a master fader and the full transport section, eq sectino and all it ocntrols so well, built like a tanks, and add the ability to add 32 faders via 8 packs and you are set

No scribble strips.

Would be great if Yamaha/Steinberg announce, or show a new Control Surface for Cubase at Musikmesse. But, unfortunately, I doubt that will happen.

Had a chat with Steinberg reps at Musikmesse about the topic.

They recently asked Yamaha bosses to build controllers for Cubase and Groove Agent.

Yamaha wasnt very forthcoming it seems. The rep made the impression that we wouldnt see anything like it in the known future. For sure not this year, he said.

Hmmm.... Ooooo.... THAT's NOT GOOD NEWS

What's the smart reasoning behind that ?

Frustrating to hear this type of feedback from Yamaha/Steinberg Rep.

Well, I'm giving up on Yamaha/Steinberg to cater to us Cubase Project-Studio owners. I hope to find my own solution from other companies as far as Control Surfaces are concerned.

I'm currently looking into Lemur for iPad, and trying to see if that would be a reasonably good solution for Remote Controlling Cubase, and providing other workflow tools for VSTs and Sample Libraries.

Also started putting my Maschine Studio into service as a Control Surface as well, via the NI Controller Editor Application.

There are some very cool already baked Lemur profiles for Cubase, Misc. VSTs, and even Sample Libraries. But, I kind of like learning how to do this myself. So, I'm spending some time with the Lemur Editor, to get to know the Lemur system, and create my custom setups. Kind of fun

Any Cubase users here using Lemur for iPad. or NI Maschine Studio as a control surface ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp

There's probably no sure and significant profit in the proposition. That's smart reasoning, all things considered.

Just read this thread, and others like it, and you'll see how 'difficult' it'd be. The supposed user base is all over the place in terms of what the users desire.

Kind'a what I was getting at. Lemur / touch-control isn't the same type of fruit. Know what I mean?

I've got the lemur and machine studio in front of me and I've made a rudimentary pack of controls for both on C8.

Lemur handles quick controls and basic selected track controls (volume / pan) via touch but the same is mapped to maschine too for more hands on approach. I also use Geist for drums some of the time and I've got it mapped out quite nicely to Masch Studio (selected cell ADSR + Filters and whatnot). I'd love to map more but it takes time to figure these out.

Cubase control mapping is nice though but it definitely could be better + I don't have too much time in my hands to be figuring these things out either. Its kind of a love/hate relationship with controllers really. As time goes by I'm leaning towards getting something expensive that some reputable company has already figured out...

Stuff like Geist though you have to do yourself... but luckily the software goes a bit further in mapping than the average drum box...

Hi Brasco,

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, it takes time to learn, setup, customize, and discover a workflow system that speeds up one's production time. and makes working on a project more fun, and fluid, keeping all the creative juices flowing, it's not an easy task to accomplish, but I think with a bit of patience, persistence, and positive thinking this can be accomplished.

By the way, I also use Geist, but have not yet started to customize any Controllers for it, maybe I will look into using Maschine Studio for Geist control like you have. (so thanks for the tip)

As far as a high-end dedicated Control-Surface from a reputable company for Cubase, and other DAWs, I'm still waiting to see one that I like, so far, I'm not sure about anything out there. That's why I decided to go with what I have, Lemur for iOS, Maschine Studio, and I also have other devices that can function as dedicated controllers, i.e. I can use my Virus Ti2 Desktop's knobs to send MIDI CCs to VSTs, via the Control Mode of Virus Ti. Lots of options, so I'm currently trying to design my own system of devices, my workflow, and protocol of how to go about managing and controlling my various VSTs, Sample Libraries, ..etc. in my Project-Studio.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Thats a bummer for sure. still don't know why they can't code an existing 24 or 32 channel new board? at gearfest the Yamaha rep said that even though it didn't control cubase that would be a great idea for a double use for the console

oh well. maybe someday. heck they could have motorised the faders on the N12. i guess till you use a dedicated Yamaha board coded specifically for cubase its hard to explain. my artist series was ok, my MCU and extenders were ok, my CC 121 is actually great, hell make fader packs for it. when its made by yamaha and coded for cubase its a different experience. solid build, solid code, every button just works.

If cubase is the number one selling daw in the world thats a whole lot of customers relying on third party products when the irony is that the owner of steiny is one of the best console makers of all time. sad

Yes, It is Very Sad, and frustrating.

I wonder what Yamaha/Steinberg are thinking, or if they think this is a smart strategy, especially in the long term. If they think it is, I can say they are wrong, and they will realize it, sooner or later, and hopefully do something about it.

I think the N12 was around 1799.00 US. No scribble strips, no motorized faders. I'd guess we'd see a premium of about $50 per fader for motorization and touch-sensitivity. Multiply $50 with 11 faders, and that's $550. Then an LCD or something for those 11 channels, plus coding and R&D. I'd also say that since it's a product that has analog i/o there'd be a premium just because of that combination of analog+control. But I'd guess at least another $1,500. So, I don't think it'd be too outlandish to expect it to be 2k more expensive. So now it's approaching $4,000. So the question is what else exists around there. There's the s3 at $5k, which would be attractive because of its integration with PT and build quality. Then below there's the Artist series which would give you 32 faders instead of just 11, for the same price, again with PT integration, or $2k for 16 faders.

Trust me, a lot of us were barking at Yamaha/Steinberg to make a controller for years and years before the low-budget stuff came out, and finally the Nuage. If they really had cared about this segment we're talking about (or thought it was profitable) they'd have had a reasonable dialog with users about it. But they didn't. We got cheap stuff, and we got a well-priced high-end product ("well-priced" compared to the competition).

But how is that not what the Artist series is? If all you have are the controls above, why would you need "deep" integration? It's just faders, transport, pan, mute, solo, select, right?

As soon as you want "deep" integration you'll need more buttons and more "logic" involved. At the mid-price-point you already have the Eucon protocol giving you that. If you want more than that you end up with Nuage.

I just see all these "I just want" posts with absolutely zero math applied to the economics of it and zero comparison of that with other products.

How much does it cost to convert them?

Once they're converted, how would they compare in terms of features to the Nuage, and would people still buy Nuage when that new thing is out?

Honest and serious questions btw.

I might not remember correctly, but I think there was talk about controllers in the forums, like before 2010 even. And I definitely recall having spoken to reps at AES about it around the same time. But the thing is that at least Steinberg had plenty of opportunities to ask the community what it wanted, and however they went about it they came to the conclusion that covering the cheap end and the high end was the right way to go.

To me it pretty much makes sense when looking at the competition. I actually don't think that they were that wrong about it. If anything they now just have to let Nuage sell before they make something that is appealing and is similar to what people here are asking for. Because I really do think it would force a lot of users to rethink a potential investment in Nuage.

And Yamaha and Steinberg are as far as I know doing quite well financially, which is close to a miracle considering the turbulence we've seen in the content creation industry over the last decade and a half.

So I actually think it's a smart strategy on their end. The Nuage controller is priced so that it's cheaper than the entry level Avid alternative yet offers more (arguably), which is the same as Nuendo does (offers more for less). As a product line Nuendo/Nuage makes complete sense at those price points. But relative to what we're talking about Nuage seems overpriced. I want what everyone else wants at the price they want it, and it could possibly be built, just not without sacrificing sales at the high end. So the question is if they make more money that way.

If Yamaha/Steinberg feel that they should just make decisions that make them more money, and ignore customer requests, needs, and satisfaction, they are surely heading in the wrong direction. They will surely realize it, and make a correction when they wake up and realize they are heading in the wrong direction. imho. It's just a matter of time.

Yamaha and Steinberg are corporations that operate on a capitalist market. Making money = survival. If doing what you want makes them more money and they are aware of it then they probably will do what you want.

The question here is if it actually does make them significantly more money.

There isn't even a consensus on what people want, so just what are you proposing and what is your actual realistic analysis of cost and competition and potential profit?

Just because a bunch of users say they want something doesn't mean it's a profitable proposition.

The n12 was 1299 street. they lowered the price

also, it was ADDA, comps, verbs, 3 sets of monitor outs (Imagine THAT), and a host of other things (pre amps on EVERY input that were NICE) that made it a full blown interface for cubase. you could easily take out the AD DA and monitoring, although the comps per channel, eq, and verbs were really nice.

if you kept the chasis and form factor and stripped it down to what was needed as a full blown controller then add the ability to daisy chain just like the n12 you would be in about 3K for 33 channels, bankable, with eq, comp and verb per channel. then add 50 per channel for the motor thats another 1500 so for a huge console like daw controller your at 4500

believe me the artist series wasn't as nice as even the cheap n12 with cubase. you might want PT with this stuff but i dont. if you want multiple daws that's fine and I think it should but like the NEW studio one controller make it primarily the DAW your console make owns. and add Mackie and hui for the others.

SO if we take it down to a 24 motorised fader, master fader for 25 faders, full transport, hell keep the comp, eq and verb on the channels, pan, mute, solo etc your maybe in 3K based on what the n12 had and did and a price of 1299 new for a TON of features that when you used it with cubase you just smiled.

anyway you can use third party controller for sure, and i have had a tone, the mixed logic M24 was the nicesed by the way. built like a tank and worked well with cubase and others but it was a small company and it took a while for them to update it

sold my artist control v2, and 2 mc mixes and transport. used them a ton, they were ok, and they were not as nicely built as the n12. and who wants avid supporting my daw cubase? not me, even if steiny was writing the eucon it went alot more closed it seemed after the sale to avid. pluf the fader caps flew off, alot of people's cracked etc

friend has an mcu and 2 fader add ons, again mackie is fine and they are ok. nothing like the n12 though.

i guess it is what it is, the shame that most are getting though as cubase users is that YAMAHA who makes GREAT controllers and mixers and consoles doesnot have one for its DAW which happens to be the largest selling one in the world, for its home and project studio market.

apparently they just reiterated they wont do one.

i think to write the code for the BRAND NEW really nice consoles for live wouldnt be hard for steiny. heck they do it for all the third party ones

then you already have literally a 32, 24, and 16 channel motorised console, made really well, onboard DSP, transport and all the normal stuff ALREADY made.

it will just be sad really. i love cubase and im passionate about making it better. from the n12 to the nuage and in between yamaha has consistienly made fantastic consoles and mixers and nuendo users and high end have probably the nicest controller i have ever seen and sat at in the Nuage. to bad cubase users who have a good 3-5K to spend are aced out of a YAMAHA made controller specific for cubase

also 2 artist mix units are 3K, the controller is 1799 alone now, they have gone up with the black units so for what you are saying your way over 5

I think it is not a bunch, or a hand full of users who want this, but most likely the majority of their users, who are not the high-end Post-Production customers, and not the bedroom/mobile Starbucks composers, but rather many of us who use Cubase in our Project Studio. I think this is their solid customer base since the good old 80's.

Oh. @ mattiasnyc are you a Yamaha/Steinberg Rep. by any chance ? or do you work for Avid, or Presonus ?

As I said, again... It's just a matter of time, and they will discover they are heading in the wrong direction, they can make more $$$ for their shareholders by making better decisions, they have not achieved financial-optimization yet, but they think they have, that's the real problem

Sorry i couldnt deliver better news.

But then, maybe i can. I also had a chat with the presonus guys. And they said, that they will have a solution for CS18Ai working with other DAWs, such as Cubase. Probably using Mackie protocol (is my guess).

This year, they said.

I also had a chat with Softube (see i was pretty thorough and chatted with like everyone i met related to this topic).

Softube said they can achieve the same level of integration for Cubase with Console-1 that they realized for Studio One v3. But Steinberg would need to collaborate, and that we should pester Steinberg about it.
I tried Lemur. And imho touch screens just dont cut it for me. You still have to look at a screen to adjust and tweak. Its just not the same like faders and knobs.

Well, this didnt prevent Presonus to release a product. Granted it has double use for hardware as well.

I think its silly to say people didnt make up their mind, so companies are confused.

And Yanaha has brand new Mixers for live that could also be used with cubase, ready to go

Yamaha TF5 | Sweetwater.com

imagine that controlling cubase now

They probably lowered the price at or prior to discontinuing the product. So, we need to be comparing apples to apples. You mentioned Avid Artist Mix at the end of the post, but list price, not street. So let's pick one and stick with it.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced that you could "easily" take those things out. In a lot of modern gear plenty of components are soldered onto a PCB. I'm not sure you can just not put a component on the board and expect it to otherwise work.

In addition to that there are two more issues:

1 - A lot of those components aren't that expensive in and by themselves, it's more a matter of economics of scale.

2 - There's the manufacturing process. If you decide to make two lineups of everything how much do you really end up saving? You do two runs of PCBs, possibly stuff them with slightly different components, etc....:

Again, you assume just "stripping it down" is easy or a low-cost solution. But everything is relative.

As for $4500 for 33 channels of motorized touch-sensitive faders? You know what, at cost you could probably get far more, AND you could sell all of that for $19.95. Of course there'd be no profit, but it's possible.

And that is probably a good reason for why Steinberg / Yamaha wouldn't listen to what you have to say.

- 25 motorized touch-sensitive faders,
- full transport,
- comp/eq/verb (which means audio i/o at least in the digital domain),
- pan,
- mute,
- solo,
- etc,

for $1,300!

Dream on. You won't see that in years. And it's so out of touch with reality nobody is likely to take such a suggestion seriously.

And you just keep ignoring market segmentation. Again; what does that do to the Nuage market? Just think about it for a while. A 16 channel motorized controller with onboard DSP meaning digital i/o, 16 faders etc, and all of that for a fraction of a Nuage? Why would people buy Nuage then?

Just get an s3.

Who cares if it's 20% or 80% of the user base? The issue is what do they want (try herding those cats if you can) and for what price and then is it profitable?

Why are we talking about me? I work as an engineer. That's my job. I have no affiliation with any of those companies.

Sounds like you're the one working for Yamaha/Steinberg, seeing that you have such insight in their financials...... Know what I mean?

But Yamaha/Steinberg did create products for the software. You had the cheap stuff and Nuage. So of course it doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything.

What I said was that it's hard to blame Steinberg for not creating ideal controller X when there are as many versions of X as there are users it seems. There was no controller, and users wanted one and complained. So they made the cheap ones. Now there was one type of controller and users wanted more, so they made Nuage. Now there were two types of controllers, and users wanted more. See where that's going?....

And that's also not what I said. I didn't say people didn't make up their mind, I said in the collective of users wanting a controller there is no consensus. So it's hard for a company to look at all the different requests and figure out what suits the most people. Let alone not disappoint them by pricing them too high yet still make a profit that is worth the risk.

Sure. Would be nice.

I didnt say 1300, that was the N12 cost with all that stuff.

anyway, it is what it is, in opinion they are missing a large part of their user base. If they dont want to do it thats fine. the Artist stuff is nowhere near as well built as the yamaha was i had. or the mixed logic. again the point is yamaha makes this stuff all the time

anyway, you have your opinion and i have mine. you dont speak for them anymore than i do. i will continue to espouse this as long as i feel this way.

i guess im wondering how presonus, with a smaller user base supposedly came out with a really nice controller

i guess they decided they could do live and S1 users all in one, and they have a full range of live mixers. presonus is far more forward thinking on this than yamaha is i think

Actually, let me rephrase what I've been saying into a more constructive proposition:

I think what would be arguably better is a concerted effort by users to find close to consensus on a controller as far as layout and functionality goes, along with a price range, and then an actual petition to the companies.

They have no issue making Mixers for Live ? OK, but What about control surfaces for project studios ? Why are they ignoring this ?

imho. That's what they need to make, because it is an important, and missing part of their current product line.