Hey all,

Been using an Allen & Heath ZED 6 (2016, newest model) as the preamp for my mics (currently a Shure SM7B and an Aston Origin). My interface is currently a Profire 2626, which I'm happy with. The Octane pre's are okay but cannot run the SM7B as I'm sure you're all aware of. The A&H mixer has developed a fault whereby the phantom power causes excessive noise to be present. I have confirmed this across multiple electrical outlets and also by powering the Aston condenser from the Profire.

I recently acquired an FMR RNC and intend to get compression on the way into the DAW, for vocals/guitar. I am ideally seeking a solution whereby I can keep a balanced signal into the Profire. This would rule out running in a serial connection from Preamp > RNC > Profire. My intention is to use the RNC as an insert device, to which I would need a preamp with insert or send & return. I know using the RNC as an insert is still unbalanced but would be with a short cable so I think that's acceptable? Or is this a trivial exercise (running as insert as opposed to in series)?

I recently read about matching impedance with the SM7B, i.e. using lower impedance than most preamps use. To enable this option (of lower impedance) I would either have to buy a preamp with impedance switching or get a Cloudlifter CL-Z, correct? Does lower preamp impedance mean more gain has to be used? If so, should I just use the SM7B presence boost switch as a freebie for getting that sound? Mainly this preamp will be used for tracking male vocalists with high, clean-ish, strong voices.

I'm basically seeking opinions here. Just wondering whether another small mixer with decent preamps & send FX (plus maybe the Cloudlifter CL-Z as an option later) is sufficient or would I get a noticeable increase in quality with a dedicated preamp, like perhaps a Focusrite ISA One for example? I don't want to spend loads if I can help it, obviously! Still a hobby but I am trying to progress and take my production & mixing skills further.

Thanks in advance!

I don't think they are made anymore, but the Studio Projects VTB1 has plenty of gain and an insert point. An upgrade would be the AEA TRP/RPQ.

The Cloudlifter is designed for this exact mic and works perfectly for the task. It takes the available phantom power (which dynamic mics do not need) and uses it to provide a clean gain stage block in front of your preamp (which this mic very much benefits from). It's pretty much standard to throw a Cloudlifter in front of an SM7B these days. Buy one from a store with a return policy. You won't return it.

Neve-territory pre is my fav for SM7B. Handles/smoothes that SM7B "cut" in the high mids (cut as in cuts through). ISA One is great, but overall very clean, and if anything is a little hard or forward in the high-mids, where the SM7B is aggressive there, too. Just my personal experience.

I'd recommend skipping Cloudlifter/Fethead, etc. and saving up for a nice, transformer-based, color outboard preamp. Down the road, a good affordable interface that made a difference for me was the Audient ID22, really cheap used, and allows bypassing the interface pre's. Especially good DA for that price range.

There ya go, not just me then. Tried all the booster plugs, even just last week had to have a go with the new Fathead Germanium, but irrespective of brand they all stole vibes by way of losing some tone and size. Put the money in the preamp kitty. The concept is a band aid. With a chip in it. And yeah, ID22's are tools for tiny cash.

Check out the Radial McBoost. https://www.radialeng.com/product/mcboost turns your SM7 or ribbon mic into a new beast with more detail. Amazing unit!!! Radial makes serious high quality stuff.

Has anyone used Fredenstein, specifically the VAS Mic Pre with an SM7? This is a slightly coloured preamp, no? Any good?

I'd previously read from other sources the preamp should be clean and uncoloured. Open to all angles tho. How much do these preamps vary on the mids? What are you talking, 1-5kHz kind of region?

I'd need phantom first for CL's, FET's etc, by the way guys. Plus I want to compress on the way in and therefore skip a stage of D>A & A>D (plus cabling!)

But interesting to hear contrasting opinions on using these vs higher end preamps...

A good budget option is a GAP pre 73, I have a DLX II version (with the useful output pad) plenty of gain and adds a bit of nice mojo. I wouldn't say mine sounds typically 1073 - but I like what it does. Easily enough gain for a SM7B with a bit spare.

Obviously I've looked at these. I keep hearing about noise issues and iffy build quality? What about the guys who say the SM7 is coloured already? PS I know most you guys spell it as color but I'm across the pond haha

Thomann still sell the VTB1 and have nearly pulled the trigger a couple of times. Seeking opinions and advice because some have recommended the VTB1 as suitable for SM7's and some say too noisy?

Bet the AEA's are nice but likely somewhat over my budget (which I guess could be extended through finance)

There IS an interaction between Mic & Transformer Input pre that has a sound..
I would go with a Pre that does NOT need it..
Plus; a Good Input transformer can add gain for Less $$..
You will NO doubt READ All kinds of stuff, including what I said..Ha.

I'd actually looked into the ID22 previously as I could run my Profire 2626 into it via ADAT. The latency issues concern me though and I also read of some people being at the limit of the 60db gain for SM7's. Also, if prefer to keep with Firewire atm over USB. I'm on a Windows 7 PC (decent spec custom build) and believe Firewire is better for a couple of reasons (than USB).

I agree with this concept, that it is better to have a preamp able to supply more than enough gain to start with, as opposed to adding boosters. The cheap option would be for me to get a Mackie/Yamaha mixer and a booster to help. But I keep reading the SM7B needs more help (aka good preamp) to 'come alive'...

If you leave the tube blend off, turn the output trimmer all the way up, then bring up the input gain to the level you need, the VTB1 is quiet and clean, imo. I have used it with an SM7B and EV RE20 and never found it lacking in gain.

You keep reading? Have YOU tried it?
How much GAIN depends 100% on what YOU need for YOUR use..
Just adding MORE gain will not simply make the mic sound better/different.
Changing the "Loading" on the mic CAN.. But I would NOT add more load, that would also reduce the level output of the Mic..

I have only run it from the Allen & Heath ZED (GS Pre). Which worked alright. Two male singers I recorded, one has peaks around 850-1kHz, the other peaks more 2.5-4kHz IIRC. Would you think a Neve clone preamp would round the sound in a positive fashion for such singers?

The impedance is around 3k on those A&H pres I think btw. Hence I'm interested to try different impedances with the next purchase.

Thanks, that's interesting :-)

The thing is different models of GAP pre 73s do sound quite different so it's hard to give definitive colour answer. Mine isn't at all noisy, and colour can go from subtle to burn-that-transformer (the very useful output pad) there are new high(er) end versions with better quality components - but then I'm sure bt then, you're into the price range where there are many alternatives.

Playing it safe and going for the relatively clean Focusrite ISA One might be just the ticket, unlikely to go wrong, very clean and plenty of gain.

VTB-1 is fine. I have one and my low gain microphone, is the EV 635a. Very quiet unit.
A couple of notches nicer, than the Mackie Onyx pre. (which for higher gain microphones sounds good)

Also, if you get a chance...
Check out the Soyuz Launcher, via their YouTube videos sometime.
I might get one, early next year, after NAMM.
Chris

Scragend - the GAP's look appealing (either DLX + EQ73 or the PREQ73). My question is - won't I lose output through going unbalanced into the FMR RNC? I read on an ISA One / RNC thread that using the insert kept thr level at +4dB as opposed to running in series dropping to -10dB...

Not sure about the stats but I've used both a KT2A and Art Pro VLA II unbalanced on my Pre-73DLXII insert and have not noticed any loss of gain - certainly not enough to be a problem, of course the switchable low input independence (300 Ohm) of my version of the GAP makes the source much louder anyway, so I really don't have any problems getting a good strong signal from a SM7B. Obviously any mic pre gets noisier on full gain but I've never had to use anywhere near the full 80db gain for any "normal" tracking duties. It's not what I'd call noisy with an SM7B but I suspect a Focusrite ISA one will be quieter and cleaner - but won't have as much gain. This is guesswork though as I haven't used an ISA for about 5 years!

If you want as much gain as a GAP but as clean as an ISA with a stunning Opto compressor - Ted Flecher has just finished batch 2 of his Brick 2s- a beautiful hand-made British pre-amp and compressor - a steal at £775 if you ask me! https://tfpro.com/ I've got one of Ted's older consumer voice channels (a Joe Meek VC3v2) - by far the cleanest pre-amp I've ever owned and it's not in the same league as the Brick nor does it have as much gain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1DA3PAg_I
According to his website there's an "ECO" version for £595 - I have no idea what that is or what's missing compared to the full-fat one.

save some cash.

buy a daking preamp/eq.

works amazingly well with sm7 and has plenty of good, clean gain for that mic.
bonus is the eq is fantastic too.

sm7 into daking into daking comp or 1176/spectra610/la2/manley elop was my main vocal chain for years. always daking preamp/eq.

sm7 into daking into daking limiter sounds pretty great on acoustic guitar, electric guitar, percussion, mono piano, etc etc etc.

just my 2 cents.

Scragend and crestifier - thanks for those suggestions. However I am really seeking a preamp with switchable impedance and insert point for my FMR RNC.

I am veering back towards a unit I was very interested in previously, the Warm Audio TB12 aka Tonebeast. Here in the UK I can get one for little more outlay then the ISA One, and the TB12 would give a lot more tonal options.

Anyone care to chime in experiences of TB12 / SM7 / RNC (comp)?

I'd suggest getting an Avedis MA5.. it matches incredibly well with an SM7, and apparently not only in my opinion.

Check out this thread, and listen for yourself:

I Was Skeptical Of My SM7B For Vocals...

Btw if you buy a good quality preamp (that could be named as such) you don't need any booster. If the mic will fit a specific vocalist is another story.. but I do like what an SM7 could do.



Cheu

The part people leave out when it comes to the SM7 and vocals is that it depends on the voice. If your singer has a tiny voice with no texture, the SM7 is probably the wrong choice no matter how loud you can crank it.

Not specific to SM7's... My Cloudlifter (on ribbons) has pretty much been idle since I picked up a Phoenix Audio DRS Q4 Mk2... (Switchable impedance) EDIT: not switchable impedance but mic sensitivity gain and plenty of gain on tap. They recently refreshed that line, calling it "Ascent", and they're available in 1 or 2 channel and with/without EQ.

Thanks cheu78 although I'm not on 500 series. Perhaps I missed a trick there but at this point it's just a preamp with certain features I'm seeking.

Also SoundSlinger, there is a hefty discount available on the DRS Q4 currently, but no insert and impedance switching option. I think I will need both of these options...

Heya, what else have you compared the VTB1 to? It is tempting to acquire at that price. Problem is then I start thinking Fredenstein VAS Pre is only a bit more, and then the Warm Audio stiff is only a few hundred more....and....:-#

My premium pre experience is limited to Grace, Avalon, UA 610 & 710, Millennium, Little Labs LMNOPre (my fave of all BTW).

Project Studio pre's besides the VTB-1 & Onyx include...
Aphex 107/various entry & mid level Joe Meek units/M-audio DMP2/etc.
Chris
P.S. My fantasy pair pick, would be the LMNOPre for "clean". And get the Silver Bullet for variable "character".

FWIW when Soyuz developed The Launcher...
It was largely with the SM7 in mind.

Also to emulate, via hardware, the "vintage console " kind of sound. Very interesting indeed!
Chris