Neumann TLM 103's are everywhere & they sound very good. Is something wrong with me? - Page 16

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 18th December 2023

I still stand by my opinion it's a decent to very good acoustic guitar mic.

A little high pass, and it's pretty damn great.

Especially on a boomy martin, with a ton of 100hz, 200 hz, etc.

I think the top end sounds nice (maybe I'm going deaf), and I have to carve out less stuff in the low mids to sit the little 103 in the mix.

The comment was made $1000 for a mic thats good on acoustic guitar is too much. Or something like that, don't quote me, as that's not verbatim.

A Schoeps cmc6 costs that (or more), and also sounds good to great on acoustic.

We record a LOT of acoustic gtr here.

If I can find something that works (almost every time), and i get comments from the client / customer that he loves the way his guitar sounds?

I'm done man. Both of us happy.
That's what matters to me.

Your ears, and your clients will be different. Use what works for you.

Ty Ford · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by David W. Jones ➡️

I just have one, which I have compared to 3 others with newer serials.

I also have experience at a studio I used to engineer at.
They have a TLM 103 that sounded harsh when it was new and 20 plus years later sounds quite nice.

were they using the same preamp? The TLM 103 IS PREAMP SENSITIVE!!!

Ty Ford · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️

I simply love it. I don’t own a U87 or any 2.000,- mic, but have used a U87 a lot. I own a lot of old Beyer Ribbons, Sennheiser and Heil Dynamics. Compared to the Rode NT1a and other „cheaper“ LDCs from AKG, Shure, even Lewitt, I very much prefer the TLM 103. For me there’s a huge difference.

I like the mix-ready sound of the TLM. I care about people’s opinions, who simply share their experience, but I don’t care what pros and experts at Gearspace think about the TLM, as long as they haven’t recorded and mixed platinum albums. There are enough records made with a TLM103 on the vocal tracks by people who could afford every mic they want. And I like the sound of these recordings. This counts. I prefer the „body“, the U87 has, this is the only significant difference, I hear. Worth 3.000,- more for pros, who make tons of money by recording music, but not for me.

What I simply don’t get about many contributions here is that people don’t mention their context. If someone, who owns a top equipped studio or works in one, making tons of money, tells me, he wouldn’t use a TLM103 for reasons, I 100% get it. I don’t have the know how to contradict that.
If a bedroom producer in an amateurish treated studio, who earns his money with a day job, tells me the TLM103 is a piece of crap and nothing can compete with his 3.000,- mic, I am not impressed. Under these conditions, there are 100 things that make a greater difference regarding a record production than a fancy mic. The only pros I know, who have a vocational training as audio engineers and worked as such for a living, own the cheapest gear I can think of and don’t read Gearspace:-) OK, they aren’t top producers, but work for public TV or radio stations or work at theaters or music venues.

I don't think you have to be in either of those schools to "get" the difference. Mic self-noise alone with quiet sources in today's digital world can put the U 87 i or ai at a disadvantage relative to a TLM 103.

David W. Jones · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford ➡️

were they using the same preamp? The TLM 103 IS PREAMP SENSITIVE!!!

Yep Exact same Mic Pre.
John Hardy M-1 4 pack

joeq · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford ➡️

were they using the same preamp?

nah, just spit and tobacco smoke!

chessparov2.0 · 18th December 2023

Got the/sorta "Anti-TLM 103" mic on me today.
A stock/McKay era Oktava 219.
With a huge dip around 5KHz.

Great to throw TONS of Compression on.
SO resistant to sibilance-it "lisps".

Chris

DirkP · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️

Got the/sorta "Anti-TLM 103" mic on me today.
A stock/McKay era Oktava 219.
With a huge dip around 5KHz.

Great to throw TONS of Compression on.
SO resistant to sibilance-it "lisps".

Chris

From the rather budget LDC’s I own or owned, my most used mics are the - for Neumann budget - TLM103 and two Octava MK-220.

ardis · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️

Keith Richards has been dead at least three times.
But nobody noticed, until he and Mick had a Riff onstage.
To their Satisfaction.
Chris

HA! I heard Elton said Keith looked like a shriveled old monkey and Keith replied Elton was good at writing love songs to dead blonds…. His book was fun!…

chessparov2.0 · 18th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️

I even think the "smaller" is better.

If that isn't a Joke set up...
What is?

Chris

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 19th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️

Got the/sorta "Anti-TLM 103" mic on me today.
A stock/McKay era Oktava 219.
With a huge dip around 5KHz.

Great to throw TONS of Compression on.
SO resistant to sibilance-it "lisps".

Chris

I have three 319's but no 219's.

I love those Oktavas man. Dark and beautiful.

On Taylor acoustics, or a bright Takamine or Breedlove, just wonderful mics.
I jumped through the whole Joly mod hoop thing years and years ago, had him do two of the pencil condensers. The mc/mk012 yada.

I liked what he did, but had him swap back in a larger cap (a Black Gate) because the value he used high passed the mic pretty far up.

At the time, he said most of his clients were in small rooms, and needed high pass built in anyways. I told him I didn't want it, and he was cool enough to switch it back, but with a better quality cap than stock. Later I did a third one, looking at what he did and copying it. Black gate was defunct, so I used an ELNA Silmic.

Those mics still sound good years later, and got used on lots of various stuff. Ride cymbal, hat, bottom snare etc. Sometimes clean amps, sometimes a second mic on ac gtr. I bought some B&K's several years ago, and an old T powered CMC5, and decided I didn't need to use the okatavas anymore, and they sat in a safe for years.
Wrong.
Still very cool and useful mics.

I need to buy a pair of large capsules for the 012 bodies. Also, I need to get another omni cap for one, because one bit it somehow. Not working. Tried carefully cleaning the contacts, to no avail.

Actually, thanks for reminding me to pull them out!
I get stuck in a rut sometimes, and everything becomes cookie cutter, assembly line style.

chessparov2.0 · 19th December 2023

Sure thang. Cut a nice demo (not Release) level vocal on my 219 last night.

"Gunked it up" via MJUC Compression/UA Volt Vintage Button. The UA 610 emulation.

Makes an easier handheld(!) vs. the 319.
(I have an exceptional stock one)*
Chris
*Wouldn't ever sell it. Unless_Dr. Bill_really_someday needs it on Toms. He loves them for that!

ardis · 19th December 2023

I’m curious that Soyuz has a very similar mic in roughly the same range 1973 and is transformer less. Anyone do a comparison?

toledo3 · 19th December 2023

I am curious about this as well, because the guy who runs Oktava now says that Soyuz basically ran off with their mic designs.

Marc_SoyuzMics · 19th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardis ➡️

I’m curious that Soyuz has a very similar mic in roughly the same range 1973 and is transformer less. Anyone do a comparison?

We get asked this all the time! They are completely different both in sound and design. Sometime soon I'll see if I can rent a TLM 103 for a day and record a quick A/B shootout on some different sources. Or if I find any on our end from demos and tests I'll share them as well.

In short, The 1973 uses the same capsule from our other large diaphragm condenser, The 023 Bomblet.

We wanted to make an incredible workhorse mic that we could retail for under $1k USD, so we designed a new body in a smaller form factor (slightly easier to machine), and opted for a transformerless version of the circuit.

It also uses a custom "resonator" that protects from plosives and helps prevent some unwanted resonances.

I know I'm biased here and not giving a direct comparison, but I'd say it has a musically detailed, and snappy sound that stays out of your way. Defined lows, punchy mid, and open top that isn't strident. It adapts naturally to your signal chain and can super clean and honest or take coloration and drive well.

You can listen here: https://soyuzmicrophones.com/listening-library

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 20th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc_SoyuzMics ➡️

We get asked this all the time! They are completely different both in sound and design. Sometime soon I'll see if I can rent a TLM 103 for a day and record a quick A/B shootout on some different sources. Or if I find any on our end from demos and tests I'll share them as well.

In short, The 1973 uses the same capsule from our other large diaphragm condenser, The 023 Bomblet.

We wanted to make an incredible workhorse mic that we could retail for under $1k USD, so we designed a new body in a smaller form factor (slightly easier to machine), and opted for a transformerless version of the circuit.

It also uses a custom "resonator" that protects from plosives and helps prevent some unwanted resonances.

I know I'm biased here and not giving a direct comparison, but I'd say it has a musically detailed, and snappy sound that stays out of your way. Defined lows, punchy mid, and open top that isn't strident. It adapts naturally to your signal chain and can super clean and honest or take coloration and drive well.

You can listen here: https://soyuzmicrophones.com/listening-library

Marc, I think he means similar to the Oktava 219. Not the tlm 103.

He's saying YOUR mic is similar to the Oktava mk219, but it's transformerless.

Brent Hahn · 20th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT ➡️

Marc, I think he means similar to the Oktava 219. Not the tlm 103.

He's saying YOUR mic is similar to the Oktava mk219, but it's transformerless.

Hey man, if the guy's mic has a snappy sound that stays out of my way, why, that's so beyond meaningless that I need to hear more. And it adapts naturally to my signal chain!

Someone is collecting a paycheck for thinking this stuff up.

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 20th December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️

Hey man, if the guy's mic has a snappy sound that stays out of my way, why, that's so beyond meaningless that I need to hear more. And it adapts naturally to my signal chain!

Someone is collecting a paycheck for thinking this stuff up.

Not sure why I'm being quoted, just attempting to clear up some confusion between two posters! Read the previous posts (before mine) I guess.

I've heard the bomblet. A guy about 30 miles from me got one from VK, uses it all the time. Nice mic.

ardis · 21st December 2023

Actually I was curious about the Soyuz. I have a 319 and can’t imagine would be like the Neumann…maybe the opposite lol!…

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 21st December 2023

I agree, likely nothing like the Neumann.
But that's what having a bunch of different mics is about.
Much easier to change or move a mic, than try to eq forever.
Usually sounds better than eq too.

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 22nd December 2023

Hey not to derail the thread, but since we talked about some affordable decent sounding Oktavas, who here has tried any Superlux mics?

I found one in a pawn shop, maybe 2001.

Sits / sat in cabinet I was rifling thru today to find something else.

I pulled it out, and to my ears it doesn't sound like your typical Chinese capsule from that era.
Transformer coupled output, body is a loose copy of a Shure KSM or something.
Not Chinese, but Taiwanese, unless you consider Taiwan part of china.
Surprisingly ok mic, particularlt from a time when most everything from Asia was...kinda harsh.
Just plugged it in to a CAPI VP26, and it really isn't half bad.

Not spitty or brittle.
Any experiences?
Thanks

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 22nd December 2023

So I found an old review.
There's some ebayer selling a Samson mic as a "superlux', though they are not related whatsoever.

Anyways, this is what it is, I opened it up, big transformer, wima, roederstein and elna caps, metal film resistors.

All parts you'd find in a Neumann.

Anyways. I think it ain't terrible.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...ux-cmh8-series

joeq · 22nd December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT ➡️

Not Chinese, but Taiwanese, unless you consider Taiwan part of china.

Oh, watch out...

Quote:

Any experiences?

I was going to mention something, but then I realized I was confusing Superlux with SuperScope, which I think was a Sony consumer brand.

DirkP · 22nd December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT ➡️

Hey not to derail the thread, but since we talked about some affordable decent sounding Oktavas, who here has tried any Superlux mics?

I found one in a pawn shop, maybe 2001.

Sits / sat in cabinet I was rifling thru today to find something else.

I pulled it out, and to my ears it doesn't sound like your typical Chinese capsule from that era.
Transformer coupled output, body is a loose copy of a Shure KSM or something.
Not Chinese, but Taiwanese, unless you consider Taiwan part of china.
Surprisingly ok mic, particularlt from a time when most everything from Asia was...kinda harsh.
Just plugged it in to a CAPI VP26, and it really isn't half bad.

Not spitty or brittle.
Any experiences?
Thanks

The Superlux Schoeps ORTF clone is incredible for the money.

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 23rd December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeq ➡️

Oh, watch out...

I was going to mention something, but then I realized I was confusing Superlux with SuperScope, which I think was a Sony consumer brand.

Yes, and also branded Nakamichi. Pretty ok stuff for it's day, and battery powered. All the Dead Head tapers used superscope mics in the late 80's!

Back when bootlegging concerts was a thing.

I saw a guy with a Superscope pair at RFK stadium taping Pink Floyd.

Coincidentally, according to that article in SOS, they say SuperLUX also manufactured for Sony.

The new Sony mics, and their new super audio speakers are great btw. Is it super audio? HD audio? Something.
Whatever Sony calls it now.
Long time Joe, good to hear from you!

Thanks man.

NEWTON IN ORBIT · 23rd December 2023

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️

The Superlux Schoeps ORTF clone is incredible for the money.

I went looking after you posted this.
Pretty GREAT reviews man.
At that price for a stereo mic that is reminding people of a Schoeps? Even if it's not all the Schoeps is, my budget isn't ALL it was 25 years ago so...

I'll roll the dice on that. Damn. 140 euro at Thomann?
Nuts. And the clips sound good. Those Cathedral recordings sound good, and not just for the $.

I might grab one and clamp it on my upright Yamaha piano, and leave it there for a while.
Thank You man!

Deleted ba8dc41 · 23rd December 2023

I used a TLM103 with an Apogee Mini-Me for a vocal project and it was REALLY nice. Sounded like a record.

VOMike · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT ➡️

Back in the early to mid 2000's a lot of inexpensive decent gear came on the market fast.
Digi 002, 003, Focusrite preamps in them, Focusrite came out with their platinum line (specs were good, if a bit vanilla), and all of the sudden tens of thousands of people were now recording at home.
No tape machine needed.

Also, people that were used to recording to tape, had to adjust their methods slightly. Not adding as much top end, watching the bass end more closely, etc.
This led to a ton of "Digital sounds like crap" stuff too.
I for one? It took me a while to relearn and adjust after analog tape was out of the picture for me.

This led to a lot of internet stuff regarding sound quality vs. price, analog vs. digital etc.

Many people didn't like the fact that a meager investment could now put you in the recording game.
People that had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on gear.

This started the whole "Thats not a REAL Focusrite...or That's not a real Neumann, or AKG. You have to have this model, that costs at least THIS much. You're not a real engineer, and you don't have a real studio."
And I believe this is the biggest reason the 103 has the GS rep it has today.

A lot of pretty good gear got slagged.

OK, maybe a TLM103 is no U67.

Of course not.
But it is capable of making a decent recording. IMO.

Your opinion may vary of course, some people hate the sound of banjo for example.
Some people don't like the sound of some mics.

I just take everything on GS with a grain of salt.

There's a lot of elitism, a lot of insecurity, a lot of the "those that financially bought in" club, etc.

And a lot of those that can't afford stuff saying they can make a Platinum record with a soda can and a ball of twine, and the plugin of the week.

I still think the TLM103 is a decent ac gtr mic.

Especially for picked parts.
Strumming, maybe an AKG or Schoeps may be better.

Again, only my opinion.
Everybody has one.
Have a good one!

Great thought! I really think that some text like your post should be mandatory to be posted once in every Gearspace-thread... as a disclaimer for the new and a self check for the old

Ty Ford · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOMike ➡️

Great thought! I really think that some text like your post should be mandatory to be posted once in every Gearspace-thread... as a disclaimer for the new and a self check for the old

and bear in mind that the TLM 103 is somewhat sensitive to what preamp is used. e.g. The Focusrite Red two channel preamp and the TLM 103 do NOT get along.

VOMike · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford ➡️

and bear in mind that the TLM 103 is somewhat sensitive to what preamp is used. e.g. The Focusrite Red two channel preamp and the TLM 103 do NOT get along.

In fact I have just bought one after avoiding it for 14 years :D
It's one of the most popular and frequent VO mics in Germany (besides U87 and Røde NT1a).
And I must say I do like it quite a bit so far here.
I am a baritone and tend to scoop out a lot of mids anyways (small booth resonances).
The preamp I have used it with so far is a clone of a Neumann OV60 - which is more ore less a discrete opamp between two Haufe transformers. It's by [silent:arts].
They seem to match very well.
I'll test it with my MT48 preamps as well with those in the Zoom F6 and maybe I come to see that unfortunate mic-preamp-matching is the reason for so many harsh opinions on the TLM103.
My other mic is a TLM170 (4-digit-SN) and I think they'll be a great team.

Ty Ford · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOMike ➡️

In fact I have just bought one after avoiding it for 14 years :D
It's one of the most popular and frequent VO mics in Germany (besides U87 and Røde NT1a).
And I must say I do like it quite a bit so far here.
I am a baritone and tend to scoop out a lot of mids anyways (small booth resonances).
The preamp I have used it with so far is a clone of a Neumann OV60 - which is more ore less a discrete opamp between two Haufe transformers. It's by [silent:arts].
They seem to match very well.
I'll test it with my MT48 preamps as well with those in the Zoom F6 and maybe I come to see that unfortunate mic-preamp-matching is the reason for so many harsh opinions on the TLM103.
My other mic is a TLM170 (4-digit-SN) and I think they'll be a great team.

You bet. The TLM 170 is the younger sibling of the U 89 i, IIRC. I have a U 89 i and for my uses, prefer it to the U 87 i because of it's more neutral frequency response.
I have a pair of TLM 103. We discovered the preamp matching issue when a friend opened his own studio a long time ago. He had been using a Focusrite Red two channel preamp with U 87 i. He couldn't afford a U 87 i at his new studio, so he bought a TLM 103. He called me, very upset because of the harshness. I took one of mine to his studio to see what it sounded like there. We were trying to determine if the mic he had just purchased was "bad." Nope. Mine sounded equally harsh through the Focusrite Red .

He also had the same problem with AKG C414s. I don't recall which flavor he had experienced. I have a pair of them. When he was here one day, we were talking about the harshness issue. I pulled out one of my C414 BULS and he cringed. I said, "Here listen to this." No harshness on my system. He was stunned. I was using GML preamps.

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