Danny Kortchmar, Craig Doerge, Leland Sklar, and Russ Kunkel. These guys have a sound and groove unlike anything I have ever heard in popular music.

All of the great songs from the 70s I like by Carole King, Jackson Browne, James Taylor, have a groove to them that even "Jam Kids" today love.

Anybody know where I can find guys with this sound and groove today? I'm afraid the aforementioned are touring with Lyle Lovett and others. I've got a project I'm working on and I just cant find guys with the right sensibilities.

Preferably New York based cats if you know anyone as I'm working on the East coast.

Hey Rex. I think you are going to find most players of that caliber all have "Agencies". I will send you a couple names but they aren't going to be a Lee Sklar.

Send me a PM , i can help you,

Thank you

One of my fav session drummers is in Kortchmar.s band. The gig around new england. I can hook you up if you have the budget. irs not gonna be cheap.

A lot of guys that work the Apollo are here regularly...funkier but equally pro and with a huge groove.

PM me

What is the approximate rate for guys at this level? Is it a day rate? Hourly? Curious to know where the market is at right now.

Expect to pay double to triple scale + cartage w/ a 3 hour minimum. X the number of musicians = close to $5k for a 3 hour date with studio, engineer and minimal rhythm section. Could be significantly more depending on which musicians you choose and their track record.

$5K? For 3 hours?

How about I take a bus out to NYC and do it for $1.5K. I'll do a 10 hour day if need be.


REX, if you want a Skype demo to verify my guitar chops, send me a PM.

I'm comfortable playing "Impressions" at 180bpm or "Mustang Sally" at 40bpm or anything in between.

(BTW, my band has a purposeful sort of Velvet Underground-y ineptitude, so I wouldn't look there )

LL

P.S. My sight-reading is up-to-snuff

Yeah. Easily.

You're certainly welcome to charge whatever you like. The OP was asking about world class musicians who have a reputation for being very creative groove monsters over the last 30 or so years. You're not going to get a full rhythm section (5+) of them in your studio for 10 hours for $1500. Best of luck to YOU though.

Isn't OP looking for hired-hands?

So you proposed an entire rhythm section for $5K/3 hrs? Or per player?

There appears to be a detail that I'm missing.

Thanks for laughing at me though, Bill.


edit: anyway, the point is I'll pit my chops against anyone and I'll work for peanuts

I said world class rhythm section (5+ guys) in a great studio with a great engineer for 3 hours. The cost could even double that depending on the players / location / etc. that you choose. Those guys don't come cheap.

This thread is in the HIGH END forum, and the OP mentioned VERY HIGH END musicians.

I don't doubt your "chops" or that you work for "peanuts". But that's not really what the OP is talking about. You might be better than the guys mentioned, but you'll never attain their status if you give it away. BTW, FYI, I wasn't laughing AT you. More at your presentation.... ...found it amusing. Prove that you've got the sensabilities (not chops) of the aforementioned players and use that to hit up the OP. You've got some stiff competition, but best of luck to ya!!!

I appreciate the kind, helpful words.

Cheers.

LL

If only I could find a guy who could play Impressions at 185bpm.

I actually meant 280 bpm.

I85 isn't fast at all. Brag fail.

Dr. Bill is quite correct. I can recall several sessions here with The Blues Brothers horns. Vlue Lou, the late Allan Rubin, Birch Johnson, Ronnie Cuber....all top of their class, 800,00 per, double for the leader. Plus Charts.

4k plus charts. studio and engineer. Ten years ago.

Quoted a big gospel session last week. 300.00 per guy per song. Three songs adds up really fast. They might let the session go 4 hours tho....

You might want to think you are as good as those guys when you see those numbers, but you probably aren't.

And here is a hint....it isn't about how FAST you can play anything.......

There are definitely great unsung guys out there, but that's not what the OP asked for.

So correct me if I'm wrong but basically $300 an hour for a top player with a 3hr minimum?

Perhaps you should charge what you're worth, and then all session musicians can benefit?

It was like that 20 years ago. not so like that today.......

The reason they groove so good is that they were a group playing together all the time (ala Motown / Stax / Wrecking Crew). I think they did three instrumental albums all by themselves before working with some of the other heavyweights on their vast resume. Kootch and Leland were part of James Taylor's and Carol King's early days shared touring band. I thought JT at one time mentioned Kootch as a best friend going back further. When great musicians play together all the time they get very good at finding a groove and communicating musically. You can just start by looking for some guys that have years of experience with each other.

I´ve heard crazy numbers if you´re trying to book Vinnie...
Anyone hired him recently to confirm?

There are lot's of misinformation about the fees of session cats, some are willing
to pay lot's of money to get them, some don't and still get them because the session cat need those session for there track record. in the 70's 80's , lot's of studio musician charge triple scale ( 3X the hourly ), but now these days. it's not like that.get in contact with the musician that you want to hire, you will be surprise of there answer and there fees ........

IMO it's not the kinds of chops these 1st call players have.
It's what they choose to play or not play(often more important) & how well they play as a cohesive section.
Their track record as well as the predictability of great consistent interpretations,performances and results is what gives players of this caliber the leverage to set their own market rates.
Sight reading is a plus but not always a required skill,some of the best session players are more importantly fast learners and great listeners.

IMO these qualities are the most important qualities 1st call session legends posses, this combination of great skills,taste and great instincts gives them the ability to charge these kinds of rates and is the main reason they're on countless records and tours.
Chops are often not even a major part of the equation.

I keep getting stuck trying to hear "Mustang Sally" at 40 BPM in my head...

If you REALLY want to know the answer to the question of how to hire the top tier session players then find out who represents them.
Call the agent of one of them and explain what you need.
The artists have websites.
You need to hire one as the LEADER and he can acts as your liaison for the rest of the players.
He can suggest who is good and available.
He will need to be compensated for this, too.

Now, to be honest, you don't always need to hire the biggest names.
There are other great players in other cities and in the same cities as the top tier guys.
They might even be more inclined to work with you because they are not as booked.

It is important that you weigh where you sit and and where your production sits in the scheme of the world.
It would be far better to have some less known guys saying, "Yeah, this guy has some stuff he needs recorded and it isn't too bad, either. Wanna; do the date?" than to have a top tier guy saying, "I don't know who the hell this guy is, but I can squash this in between a few dates. We can make some money."
Neither will do a bad job because they are pros, but you'll get a bit more from the lesser known guys if you afre an unkown entity.

Remember, there is a whole industry in certain cities where studios record unknown artists and arange the whole thing. The artist is too intimidated by the whole situation (studio.. players) to question anything.
They knock out a standard arrangement and the "artist" gets a tape.
Bye, bye... call us if you get a deal.
They are not trying to screw anyone, but they do want to get your "dream money."
It is somewhat like running the ferris wheel at an amusement park.

I thought it was pretty clear what this included:

I understand perfectly the duties of a session guitarist.

Impression @ 280bpm
and
Mustang Sally @ 40bm


was kind of a joke.

You can get ludicrously talented cats for stupid cheap these days, I've worked with a couple of guys and felt guilty at the end for what I was paying them. But that's the market these days, and a lot of the older cats are genuinely happy to a) be playing, and b) be playing on music that isn't total crap.

What I've found works really well is to look up local jazz teachers and check out their youtube/online clips. Find someone who's got a happening groove and reach out; odds are very high they have other players they're tight with, both personally and musically. Trust them to assemble the right team to your specifications, then bring them in to work their magic.

They'll have no trouble with charts, they're used to playing live as ensembles, and they're obsessed with their instruments so they're always gigging and woodshedding and the groove comes quick and easy. When I was in Manhattan I had cats who were laying it down with Stuff, Aretha, and Steely Dan back in the day, dropping tracks for $100 a pop. It's absurd, but it's where things are at now.

Be creative, it's amazing what you can get done for cheap nowadays.


Gregory Scott - ubk

You should try to book Chris 'Daddy' Dave with Pino Palladino.

Here's a free hint....go nose around the Afrocntric churches in your area. Players start in those churches at 5 years old and are often have monter chops by abyt 12. Then you have to find the guys that have learned to play unselfishly with secular folks.

Lotsa great cats in that scene, many get high level r and b gigs. Half of the Apollo band grew up cutting gospel in my studio, and there are scenes like that all over.

Hi guys,

I'm a composer/producer/drummer in Los Angeles, and while the OP is asking for east coast cats I thought I'd give a little info regarding the current studio session 'scene' (quoted because there really isn't one anymore).

I've worked with some top rhythm section names who have recorded with some of the most prolific artists ever (Michael Jackson, Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, B.B. King, Steve Vai, James Taylor, Sting, Paul Simon, etc. etc.).

In today's scene these guys are NOT charging what they did in the 70's/80's/early 90's UNLESS the project has the budget. If you're producing a project that has a large budget funded by Sony records, then yes, expect to pay double or triple scale.

However, if you're working on a smaller project you can get these guys for scale or even less if you're working with a friend of theirs. You WILL have to pay cartage, and if you want them for only a tune or two you will pay more than if you book them for the whole project. This could be a L.A. thing though - it's a pain in the ass to drive over the hill into Hollywood for a 1 song date.

There just isn't much work anymore so if the music is good and the people involved aren't assholes then these guys will take the gig for shorter bread than in the past.

Another thing is that a lot of these guys don't go through agencies anymore (it's not worth the money since there isn't much money left!) so you're best bet is to contact them through their websites or even Facebook!! Sounds ridiculous but I contacted one of the world's most well-known drummers through this method.

Good luck, hope this helps shed some light on the current state of things in the session world.

Can we have this thread right next to engineers complaining about not getting paid enough? Or about the sessions they have to work on? It costs money... You have to pay that money to get who you want when you want. If you cant then there are a ton of other options that you have to make a compromise on to get what your looking for.

Thanks for the info on a real world quote of $5k + I mean for starters thats bottom dollar for a piece of original music made for a spot...

As i said before, you pay peanuts you get monkey............