No, I'm happy to help, hope I did. Just I think you'll be able to answer your own questions and incorporate a Satori into your set up the way that suits you best if you read the manual and just get a sense of the basics of it. Or call Antelope support and have them walk you through some more specific applications. It's not as involved as you think.

Think of it as 2 units. On the one hand it's a monitor controller, it lets you switch among numerous different input sources and route them to up to 4 different pairs of speakers. So by using stereo inputs 1-4, you can audition whatever source you want to listen to from your DAW, and use the analog trim to level match them, to compare dry vs processed for example. And you have an analog volume controller with switched relays, which is as good as it gets. Monitoring from the Symphony you reduce the bit depth any time you turn the volume down, so an analog volume controller is preferable if you want to listen at different volumes.

The other part of it is an 8 channel mixer. You can access this by using inputs 5-8. These inputs work the same as the monitor inputs but they also go into a summing mixer. There is a pair of sum out jacks on the back so you can combine your mix in the Satori instead of in ProTools, and then send the sum out into your 2Bus chain. If you send all your outboard stems back into your DAW and then combine there in a bus and then send out again into your 2bus chain, you're adding another round of AD/DA conversion, and every round degrades the audio just a bit, even thought the Symphony is a stellar unit. So if you're using outboard processors on stems, and on the master mix, it's probably better to sum the stems to 2 channels and go directly into your 2 bus chain. The Satori will let you do that if you can get by with 8 channels, otherwise you can think about adding another mixer. It sounds like you already have enough outboard to warrant getting an analog mixer, especially if you plan on getting more outboard. I think the 8 channels is probably not going to do it for you.

That's all there is to it really. All that other stuff I was telling you about was how to use the Satori like the master section of a console. So if you had a few different satellite mixers you can combine them together in the Satori, the same way on a large console you can send numerous tracks to group busses and combine them in the master section. The Satori can work with other mixers to give you that structure in a modular setup. The API 7800 and Neve 5060 are two other examples of a master section/monitor controller that work together with satellite mixers. Maybe you don't need to worry about this at this point, but it doesn't hurt to keep in mind where you may eventually be going.

It seems like you're after a Neve console type sound. Perhaps you should consider a summing box that has a Neve type summing amplifier. The Satori summing amp is very powerful and has a LOT of output but it's transformer less and very detailed and pristine. Maybe look at the Neve 5059 or the Phoenix Nicerizer. Or the A Designs Mix Factory is a great option. Or.... like I said maybe use a Folcrom passive mixer and use your 1073 DPA as the mix bus amp. Passive mixers take on the sound of whatever preamp you use, in fact vintage Neve consoles actually were passive mixers with 1272s driving them, which have a lot in common with the 1073 if that's the sound you want. Even look at the Heritage summing mixer, which uses their 1073 clone as the mix bus amp. You might get what you want a lot easier and cheaper with a summing mixer than buying a bunch of 1073 channels. I don't think summing boxes make a big difference if you're not using outboard processors, but you are.

But really do look at the manual and think about changing your hybrid workflow to incorporating some analog summing for your outboard.

I don't want to disillusion you about the glory of analog and all that ish, but just picking up the bx_console plugins from Brainworx is going to work a whole lot better for what you're trying to do than all these analog-summing shenanigans.

No disrespect to the nice people at Warm Audio, but what they're selling is not a better Neve sound than what Brainworx plugins can give you. You need the high-end hardware if you're going to surpass the high-end plugins. What's more, their TMT tech has rather put to rest the idea that summing was ever where the real magic was in the great consoles (always a dubious concept anyway).

JSL

I personally own 20k worth of plugins and I use them in conjunction with my hardware components. I could always use the nls from waves and other summing plugins I own but I personally love turning knobs and and pressing buttons

Always a contentious issue. I own Softube Console 1 and SSL Duende plugins. They sound very nice. I own SSL hardware and lots of other stuff besides, it sounds better to me. Everyone is entitled to their taste, I think what really matters is if you're excited about the sounds you're getting.

I agree. Nothing wrong with sw plugins. I personally like to use hardware for processing my busses, it’s just a preference. My last silly question to you, I believe I understand the process for the satori summing section now BUT, I am assuming the sum 1/4 inch trs output is for bussing out the audio back into the daw. The mixer inside the satori handles the channels 1-8 and the sum can go into the 2 bus signal chain back into the daw. This is the proper way yes? I was a bit confused about the 5-8 channel through db25 as well

Keep in mind that inputs 1-8 are STEREO inputs, so it's actually 16 channels. You would use the first 4 purely for monitoring. Inputs 5-8 are on DB25 because it's 8 channels, 4 stereo inputs. That's your 8 channel mixer. Maybe that accounts for the confusion? The sum out doesn't include inputs 1-4, so you can use 5-8 to mix your stems and use input 1 to listen to the mix that you're sending to the DAW. Yes, the sum outs from the Satori are for sending all your stems as a 2 channel stereo feed into your 2 bus mix, this is your master mix bus. I think you probably want to make it so that once you go out of your DAW the only thing you send back in is the final 2 channel stereo feed from your 2500, if that's last in your chain. The beauty of it is that you can listen to the sum output, so you can monitor your mix before it goes on to your master bus chain.

Here's a short example: You have 16 DA channels, yes? Using just what you said you have now - Neko, SSL, Vocal bus chain, and stereo keyboard input. You could mix a bunch of tracks in the box and bus them out to the Neko, mix a bunch of tracks and bus them out to SSL, and to your Vocal chain, and then assuming you've recorded the keys and want to keep that as a separate bus. You could send those out 8 of your Symphony channels into your hardware processors and then into respectively inputs 5 thru 8, that's 8 channels. Then send the sum out to your 2 bus chain. Send the output of your 2bus chain into 2 of your Apogee inputs, that's your master feed which you'll record in your DAW. You'll use 2 more DA outputs to send the master feed which you're recording in your DAW to Satori input 1 and that's primarily what you'll be monitoring. But, you could switch back and forth between listening to that and listening to the sum output before sending to your 2bus chain by using the sum button. And you can listen to just your SSL bus or just your Neko bus by listening to whichever input channel you send them to, say ch5 or ch6. Don't send those to 1-4 though because they won't be included in the mix then. Does that make sense?

If you add more outboard you'll really have to add an analog mixer, ever just an 8x2 one. That's how you take the basic structure here and expand it.

Here's another example. Let's say you decide you want to add 6 WA73 channels. OK, now the Satori's 8 channels are not enough, so unless you get a mixer you're back to sending back into Apogee inputs and then bussing them out again.

Let's say instead you get a Phoenix Nicerizer, 16 channel summing mixer with Neve-like output section. So then honestly, you could just not use the Satori summing mixer at all, you would just send all your stems to the Nicerizer at mix down and send the output into your 2bus chain and into your DAW. Then you would only use the Satori to monitor the feed to your DAW. If it's not obvious how, you would have a stereo input channel and have input monitoring on. You would accept say inputs 1-2 from your Apogee and run your 2bus chain into those, and then that same DAW channel would output to Apogee 1-2 and you would send that feed on into Satori stereo input 1.

But, you could also build a modular mixing system where, let's say you want to mix into your 6 WA73 channels and send them into the Phoenix but you want to send a bunch of other tracks to your SSL and a bunch of others to your Neko and you don't want those to go through the Phoenix because you want them to have a different tone, more like an SSL tone. So then you send the Phoenix output into say input 5, you mix a bunch of others in the box and into SSL and send that to input 6, etc... and then you use the sum output to send everything into your 2bus chain. This way it's a multi-bus setup. This is what I do. I have four different 8x2 mixers with different processing on all of them, and I send the outputs of all 4 mixers into Satori inputs 5-8, and send the sum output into my 2bus chain, and into my DAW.

Hope it's clear now.

Oh, it's about loving doing things with your fingers? Cool, so it's not about sound quality!

Kidding aside, the use of a summing bus doesn't really give you many knobs or buttons to play with.

We also use analog processing, sometimes for EQ and very frequently for compressors. It's just important to know what actual differences are made by which actual types of equipment.

JSL

I bought the satori for 1800 cad on reverb for the purpose of monitor control duties at a mastering grade. Quality, it so happens that this box also does pristine summing as well, I just wanted to take full advantage of what this box does. Thanks for your input.

Best!

Ahh that makes things more clearer now. I use channel 1 for raw input of symphony io and the 2nd channel for processed signal path. The 5-8 channel input for the actual inputs that will be summed to 1 stereo summed output and the 5-8 through dsub for 5-8 channel going back into symphony for mixing in the symphony/pt.

Yes, you got it. 5-8 doubles, there's a pass thru out for those stems as well as going into the summing mixer. I haven't used them but there are any number of scenarios that might be useful. Feeding to a sidechain compressor, recording the stem separate from the mix as you're mixing, monitoring the mix while tracking individual instruments, etc.... very rich feature set!

Yes, you got it. 5-8 doubles, there's a pass thru out for those stems as well as going into the summing mixer. I haven't used them but there are any number of scenarios that might be useful. Feeding to a sidechain compressor, recording the stem separate from the mix as you're mixing, monitoring the mix while tracking individual instruments, etc.... very rich feature set!

So I have set up the satori and it sounds great. I had a mogami 2534 xlr connector cable on inputs 1 and 2 and could hear a decrease in fidelity. I swapped them out with VOVOX sonorous direct a xlr connector cables and can’t hear any loss in frequency or dynamic range. Only gripe I have is I have to purchase another VOVOX dsub connector cable for summing 😅 very happy with the satori

Hello,

I've been going through this thread and it has helped clarify some of the signal flow concepts of the satori a lot but I have a question I hope someone can help me out with. I will be getting a satori soon and want to see if I even need or can use the summing capabilities. My current setup is an original silver Orion Studio as my front end. I then send the dsub outputs, 16 channels, into a Burl b32 summing box. This box has 32 inputs on dsubs and 2 stereo outputs that are mirrored, the same signal. So I plan on sending 1 stereo out to 1 input on the satori for monitoring. The other output will continue into my outboard gear and end at a the a/d of my antelope pure2. How can I implement the satori 8 channel summing or do I just skip it all together. Would there be a point of say sending 8 channels out from the orion studio into the satori first and using the pass through to go into the b32 at that point, and then sending the sum out of the satori out to outboard ending at the pure2 ??? Should it be that the satori should be able to sum all the inputs not just the dsub??

Thanks in Advance.

Hi there,

So the Satori has channel inputs 1-4 which take monitor inputs and channels 5-8 which are dsub channel inputs Which handle summing inputs. They will then get outputted from 2 channel 1/4 inch outputs. There is also a dsub thru input as well

Hi,

I contacted support today with similar issues as the person you replied to, but haven't received an answer back yet. I understand there are relays that make a clicking sound, but I hear noise clearly in the actual monitors as pops, and zipping if I increase the volume by many stops quickly. Is this also normal? I am a fan of Antelope equipment and have other Antelope products as well, but for the price I was expecting quiet operation. Would I have the same pop in my speakers if I used an Avocet, Dangerous, etc...?

Just wondering as I had never seen or hear about anything like this. All my previous controllers used pots, so I guess it's an acceptable trade-off, but I never realised this noise was a thing with all relay based controllers? I'm not 100% sure, but I have a hard time believing it's supposed to be as loud as it is for me?

I read this before I bought it, so I figured I wouldn't be hearing noise in my monitors:

''Whereas relay attenuators, being mechanical switches, provide the best sound quality, they suffer from popping or zippering artifacts when the volume is adjusted. Satori employs an innovative, patent-pending technology that dramatically reduces these artifacts while retaining all the advantages and excellent sonic performance.''

Perhaps mine is faulty, seeing the sound is quite noticeable, and others say it's not really noticeable?

Also, I noticed you said future versions might be even quieter, does that mean there is a Satori 2 on the way?

It would suck if a new one came out in a few months after buying this one haha.

Thanks for reading Mr. Clybourne!

i cannot recommend buying a Satori Monitor controller. You WILL need to have the software installed for using the desktop unit. that software sometimes crashes leaving you no other choice to restart your system. On top of that it have somehow reset volume to max and almost blowing my ears and my speakers.. thank god for active speakers with safety. Sound is fine.

Hi,

Summary of this post: DO NOT BUY A SATORI!

Firstly I must state that I like Antelope Products.

I actually got a big discount on Antelope stuff through my university, and purchased a Satori and an Amari. I already owned an Orion 32+. The Amari and Orion work fine, but next to some issues with registration and software crashes, the Satori displays loud pops and zipping noise when adjusting volume (audible through monitors, of course I don't mean the relays inside the actual unit.) Next to this the remote has to be separately connected to your computer, it can't be connected to the main unit directly, meaning you need to sacrifice 2 usb ports for an analog controller to work.... Basically it is highly reliant on software, and has cool unique features, which would be fine if it worked more reliably, but it doesn't.
Antelope customer support was very nice, helpful, and kind to me, they sent out a second unit and.... it had the exact same problem... (mainly pertaining to the loud pops, zips, clicks that were audible through the connected monitors when adjusting volume)

I tried everything, two brands of monitors, different cables, different or the same electricity groups (so no ground loops), different firmwares, etc.

I just want to warn others (as I couldn't find much on the Satori and figured the few negative comments were exceptions and perhaps early problems seeing the posts I did find were older).

I even messaged a YouTuber who is endorsed by them (who is an incredibly nice guy and talented artist, and he wasn't negative about Antelope at all) and he confirmed that it was 'unfortunately normal'.


Buy the converters & interfaces, leave the Satori, if you don't want to worry..


Just my '2 cents' (I believe is the phrase?)

The clicking is not super loud and is fine to my liking. It isn’t really an issue and the sound quality is excellent. It sounds exactly the same as my apogee symphony io interface, just a db or 2 quieter.

This is my experience too, I was surprised people were having such trouble with relay noises, I turn the volume up and down all the time and I honestly could care less that there's a light clicking while I turn the dial.

I just got a "new" Satori, it was a customer return from VK. But it was brand new, sealed. I plugged it in...volume knob is blinking/flashing non-stop. No other button when pushed does anything. This is a brand new unit...I wish I read this before I bought it.

I think that you need to register it before it stops doing that .... which is a bit ridiculous for an analog device... but it's true... just look up the manual.

You're right! I've never seen that before on an analog device either. I called tech support and they helped me out but I have to update my Mac OS (I'm on Sierra) to get everything going.

I got the Satori working. Antelope was very helpful.
Great sounding unit, very quiet, clean, detailed. Powerful headphone amps.

If anyone knows anyone who is selling an RS4 remote please do me, I would like to get one for my satori