Thank you for the explanation.

Juat cause you read it don't make it true. I've never notuced a difference between digital and analog panning, and I do both on a regular basis. I use analog summing and a bunch of analog processors, but I have to say most of the digital v analog stuff is bs.

In case this can help someone else's decision, I had earlier discounted the Satori but was presented with one hooked up at my local pro audio shop.
They had it setup as a monitor controller for one input to several speakers.

Observations relating to my needs were:Beautiful build, great looking front panel and remote. Remote is small and has one smallish cable (i think ethernet cable). no giant cable running on my desk. Positive for me.

Buttons felt like pro quality and had good feel. Great look.
Volume knob seemed to have a good feel but relating to previous threads may be a bit on the fragile side. Hard to tell without plenty of use but may be irrelevant if using the remote.

Using the volume knob made the noticeable ticking noise from the relays but coming out of the speakers especially at higher volumes. If this is a concern for you, don't get this box as it will bug you and anyone in the room.
As far as quality of sound, the room had unfamiliar speakers so I can only attest to fact that it sounded good in the room.

I had brought up with the guy that my understanding is that you have to have the unit connected to the computer via USB at least to launch if not use, which is a big drawback for me although workable if i had to. He nodded...
These items and the previous software update issues are pushing me in another direction.

Brick and mortar pro audio shop's, with very few exceptions, have a limited amount of knowledge of these units. You're much more likely to find solid expertise from users on these forums. So I'd say take that with a grain of salt. The ticking was addressed in a firmware update (I'm guessing that the audio shop didn't take the time to install that latest version), as were a couple of other major quirks. The unit needs to be connected to a computer for initial setup, but I don't believe that it's required after that (we happen to keep ours connected full time because we use the desktop and mobile control apps regularly).

Sonically, it's tip-top. They used proper components. It's not the finest controller, but certainly on the higher end, and no doubt one of the best values. It is close to transparent.

I'm still unaware of a better option for anyone who's seeking a monitor controller with this functionality. The only drawback to me is that it's unable to pass audio to multiple speakers simultaneously. And I suppose Antelope is still not great with their software, but they have a solid current firmware release.

When you say not the finest, which units do you think are higher end? Avocet? Grace? TBH, I auditioned it against monitoring directly from my Apogee Symphony and I couldn't hear a difference. So if some more expensive controllers are even more transparent I wonder if I'd be able to hear a difference, I sort of doubt it. My assumption was that the extra 1000$ in cost had more to do with the fact that those include really high end converters rather than that the analog side was superior.

For myself, the Satori is a better fit than the others because of the summing section. And the way you can make inputs 5-8 double as A/B comparison inputs for mastering or as summing inputs when mixing. If you have a few satellite submixers the Satori effectively becomes the center section of a console, collecting 4 stereo groups. For anyone considering controllers, I would say that might be a deciding factor, it really is a valuable feature if you use summing mixers but are missing groups like you have on a full sized desk.

Does anyone know if it's possible to hear what the outboard gear is doing to the audio when it's in SUM mode? I tried using the input and the thru connections, but still only hear the changes on CH1

Also, can you use the Input and Thru at the same time? What would I use the thru for?

Damn, this box is tempting, but, like all Antelope products, when you dig deeper in forums you read about a lot of problems and unhappy users.

I guess this is related to Antelope's penchant for developing products that often incorporate bleeding-edge high tech and involve software, apps and USB computer connections.

I'm also looking at the Dangerous Monitor ST, which has no USB connection, no app and no software features. So, much less to go wrong. It's just (audio cable) plug a plug. But offers waaaaaay less features then the Satori (i don't need surround, so that doesn't count for me as a useful feature)

Difficult choice: go for the shiny new boy in town with all the bells and whistles (who might very well leave you in the lurch at a crucial moment), or the boring, tried and true and option that doesn't make any promises it can't keep!

FWIW, I've owned it for several years now and not a single thing doesn't work the way they say it does. I've also not experienced any problems with the desktop app or mobile app. Believe half of what you read, maybe less.

Thanks for your input!

A question: are there audible clicks (either mechanical from the 19" or through the speakers) when changing volume?

I've got an Avocet in another studio (luckily housed in a machine room) that has incredibly loud relay clicks when changing volume. I couldn't live with that noise in the same room, and i won't have a machine room in this new studio (for which i'm considering the Satori).

And just one other question: what is the length of the supplied USB cable from remote to mothership? It's USB type B at both ends, right? That's unusual and slightly worrying, as those things seem impossible to find on the interwebs (if i want to have a longer cable, which i might, depending on the supplied cable length).

I haven't noticed the clicks. I know somebody complained about that, I still haven't noticed them though. I use the phone app to control volume a lot, lowering volume seems smooth to me. Maybe there's a click when you change input sources, it never struck me as wrong or annoying. Someone complained about meter lag too, it may be, I never use those meters though, I use Insight. I don't want to sound like I'm pimping this product, I just am personally very happy with the thing. The monitoring is totally transparent, it sounds exactly the same as monitoring direct from my converters, I don't think it's possible for any of the other controllers to be more accurate in any way that you could pick out blind. I couldn't hear a difference when I compared to monitoring direct from my converters. So I think it comes down to features. I personally love the software, and use them more than the physical unit. I also love the summing and the headphone amps are really impressive, blow my Apogee Symphony headphone amps away, really robust, have to turn them down. I use the summing as the center section collecting sub mixes. I really like this setup better than using a single summing box, you can process groups this way and solo each group separately, and then the summing amp really packs a punch, huge output, I think +30dbs. The USB cord is 5 or 6' long, I think. What's type B? I just looked and couldn't tell. The end that goes into the Satori is one of the larger types.

We got one of the first ones, had a lot of issues, and we've reported most if not all of them here along with info about our correspondences with tech support, what was suggested as a remedy, and what eventually happened with the unit. Antelope worked with us to get primary issues resolved and the unit, the desktop app and the remote app are all more stable today than when in their infancy.

But to suggest that we were lying about our experiences is just absurd. I also think it's asinine to scare someone into believing that half of the reports are fabricated. What's your evidence that *anyone* is relaying a story which isn't believable? Is it because you yourself, with the experience of one Satori, had no issues?

I'd wager that most Satori owners have had smooth sailing, but that doesn't mean that any of the problems reported here are untrue, it means that, as always, problems are reported far more than successes.

To the person above asking if Satoris are reliable: the answer is "probably but not with a guarantee." However, Antelope has much more experience with this product since the thread began and they can assist if something goes wrong. In my experience with Satoris (and I've had quite a lot), it's a finicky product, and Antelope tends to focus more on hardware development than software backline so their products, while auditorily fantastic, can feel clunky or buggy at times. But I know of no other product that's comparable for this price, and I think it's worth trying.

I didn't suggest anyone was lying. When I said believe half of what you read, I think that's a general truism about this forum, or about any forum. This thread, like a lot of threads, had a lot of over the top negative commentary which might give someone the idea that the Satori was more trouble than it was worth. I believe you if you say you had a unit with relay noises and maybe it's since fixed but I've owned mine for 3 years now and I can't lodge a single complaint about it. I think it would do a disservice to the guy with the questions or anyone else considering the unit to lead him to believe he'd be getting glitchy software, noisy relays, and bad customer support. I see this all the time on threads, the bad customer support complaint, when my experience was that I got someone on the chat within 30 seconds. That happened to me with Antelope, and some people wrote you can't get any help, the support is terrible. Same thing with Softube, they emailed me back within 12 hours the 3 times I wrote to them, and people were saying their support was terrible too. For me, not in 3 years has the software not worked right, either.

I think there are people who legitimately have bad experiences, and it's good to know for other prospective buyers. But I think across this forum more than half the - it was so terrible I sent it back posts really ought to be taken with a grain of salt.

In the end i decided to go for the Monitor ST (on order, should be arriving tomorrow ..... I just wanted something that work 100% for sure, all the time.

One of the main factors was the fact that the Mon ST uses an ethernet cable for it's remote, whereas the Satori uses a USB type B, which in my experience is a poorly engineered connector and only suitable for a device that will being staying in one place. As i intend to move the remote constantly around my fairly large studio space, i can envision the USB connector on the Satori remote going south fairly quickly!

If you use a well-made USB cable then there's no reason that it should fail any quicker than an equally well-made ethernet cable. I have USB devices that are in constant motion and they're solid, but I don't use the uber-cheap cables that tend to come with devices.

There is also a remote app for ios/android so you don't have to move the remote constantly.

Hey guys, good to hear YMMV, looking forward to giving the Monitor ST a spin!

I sold a Monitor ST for the Satori. I kind of wish I hadn't for a couple of reasons.

First, the Satori hadware remote is far inferior compared to the Dangerous unit. It's not connected to the mothership, instead requiring a USB connection to your computer, with the app launched and running in order for the remote to work. That's just a terrible design IMO.

The Dangerous remote is a straight connection to the mothership, no hassles, no software, no app required.

The outstanding issue for me still is that minimizing the desktop app here on OSX doesn't work. I just got a reply from Andrew about it this morning, so hopefully there's a resolution soon.

And again, I first reported this to them more than a year ago (with the video I've already posted on this thread). Don't believe what you see or hear with your own eyes and ears though, right?

Maybe it's just me though, and it works for everyone else.

Antelope is great with quickly coming out with cutting edge innovative tech, not so great at quick bug fixes. I speak from a lot of experience on this. Hopefully they are continuing to improve things.

On the positive side, I like the Satori hardware and it sounds great.

Whoa, you can't be serious?! ............... dude, now i feel like i had a lucky escape as i was seriously considering the Satori.

The mere idea that one can't doing anything in one's studio without turning on a computer first is truly horrible to me and kinda sums up all that is wrong with modern music making / technology. Terrible & idiotic design indeed.

Mon ST has arrived, will be hooking it up tomorrow!

By the way, before purchasing i had a couple of questions i emailed to Dangerous, and they mailed me back promptly. Contrast that with a mail i sent to Antelope a while back about my Orion 32+ that was met with deafening silence!

Yeah, I think you made a good choice. Both units sound great. I had to buy my Satori remote separately.

My main reason to go with the Satori was that it has more I/O (which I do really like). The remote just sucks though. I've already got a bazillion USB connections hooked up to my studio computer via hubs, USB expansion cards, etc. and the Satori remote is USB powered on top of it.

The Dangerous remote is one ethernet connection to the hardware unit. Brilliant design, no needless hurdles in the way of your workflow.

Hi guys,

Coming up a little late after the battle here and considering getting a Satori, i was wondering a few things as this thread is a year old.

- Does those "way too loud crackling relays" have finally been adressed ?
- Do you still need the app to run on the computer in order to use the R4s remote ?

And time passing by, do you still love this box ?

There’s been no Satori update since 2016.

Still need the app on the computer to run the remote. Still can’t minimize the app window.

ouch ...
i must say that's quite not the kind of answer i was hoping ...
what about the loud relay noises ?

I’ve never experienced loud relay noises that have been any sort of problem.

Also, in fairness to my previous post, I think it’s by design that the app has to be open for the remote to work. What they should have done is allowed the Satori to connect the remote directly via USB, bypassing the computer entirely. Instead, it requires both the Satori and the remote to be connected to the computer via USB. So two USB cables to essentially control one device. A flawed design choice in my opinion...

Yes Clearly,
still i'm thinking of getting one.
The way it can handle 4 cue mixes looks pretty handy in a small studio environnement.
other solutions would be a Dangerous ST or an Avocet plus a headphone system which takes more rack spaces than two USB slots ...

thanks for your answers Squawk,
you gave me something to think about ...

You’re welcome. The remote implementation on the Dangerous ST is how it should be done.

FWIW, I love mine. First and foremost the sound quality is irreproachable. I tested it out vs listening direct from my Symphony converters and you can hear every tiny detail, just perfectly lucid circuitry. The headphone amps are also very impressive. I don't use the remote, I just use the phone app, I think that's pretty neat, you can sit where you need to and switch sources. Lots of connectivity and then the summing is really good too. I have a 32x8 passive mixer, really 4 8x2 sections in a 1RU box and then the Satori is the back end collecting the 4 groups. The summing inputs are the same pristine inputs as the monitoring inputs and the mix bus amp is really robust and high headroom. The relays make noise, I can't say it bothers me. If you change volume it warbles a little, no biggie. The other issues might bother someone else, I have no quibbles.

Yep, very neutral sound -- ideal for a monitor controller.

I like mine. I wouldn’t dissuade you from getting one. The features are nice and it sounds great. Just don’t expect any software updates ever. @ Antelope Audio has pretty much abandoned that end of it.

Are there bugs that need to be addressed, or features that are missing? I no longer work in our studio which uses the Satori so I don't know if it's feeling solid these days.

About a year ago I asked Antelope support chat when they were going to fix this bug. The reply was “ASAP!”.

What a joke...