The Linn had a variable sample start with hihats to prevent the machine gun effect.

I can confirm if you use the 48PQ setting, the results are completely stable and deterministic. Meaning, the notes that are triggered at the same time, will be shifted together , and will land on the same exact (shifted) timing every time.

Even if i duplicate the whole VPROM vsti, it nulls with itself.

Finally..the truth.

As to the "groove" arguments..waste of time. Do your own grooves from your midi controller. Not hard. Swing is up to you. It's called playing..an artform that seems to have gone out of style, haha.

I started as a drummer so all I care about is how it sounds.

Sounds Cool ! : )

The high hats shouldn't null though if they are triggering from different points in the sample each time.

Yep, definitely. But i have that function turned off cause i use my own samples.

Won't the hi-hat humanize feature work (well) with user samples?

So you will need the drift parameter to let some EPROM sounds start at slightly different times?

glad people shot down that stupid video - absolutely no one wanted bad midi timing which is not a shortcut to programming swing ffs.

look at the hardware forums & read the threads on midi timing & go into the vintage forum & look at the crazy lengths people go thru to improve midi timing - what a load of nonsense that video was blaming bad programming on a daw.

daw's have the most amazing randomization options, swing templates, so & so forth & I will gladly put my beats against his with sloppy midi timing

i use teh pitch randomization in groove agent to help 'machine gun' & give human feel especially on a snare

VPROM 3.0 does sound fantastic and is the best VST LM-1 & LinnDrum sound I've heard to date!

However, there appears to be some misunderstandings in this thread about know how midi actually works.

No mention of the fact that Midi is sequential, meaning no two midi events can happen at the same time and it always has 1- 8ms of input latency + your buffer/system latency which is usually upwards of 10ms (in reality).

8 + 10 = 18ms of potential arbitrary latency which will completely change the feel of many genres of music - (I can always feel anything above 6ms when playing).

This is not something to ridicule or scoff at when groove/feel is what makes many genres enjoyable.

An external sequencer/drum machine is relatively, internally consistent with itself and will not place note events too far outside of the actual tempo (groove).
As opposed to DAWs that frequently have sloppy system/midi input latency, and with aggressive quantizing that repetitively locks events to a grid.

Midi "Humanize" functions always feel worse to me, no matter the settings as it is no longer MY performance I'm hearing.


With a drum machine; no two bars are EVER the same, and will never phase cancel - even with a seemingly identical pattern.
Patterns sequenced in a DAW have repetitive timing variations that will phase cancel/null if inverted (please, test these things for yourselves).
Maybe this is desirable for some of you, but for many it is not, and maybe just a matter of preference?

I've noticed that people who sequence midi drums & key parts with a DAW usually have to spend a considerable amount of time editing those midi parts, just to get them to "feel" right.

I NEVER have to spend time "editing" midi drum/keyboard performances sequenced on an MPC Live (unless i played a wrong note) - why is that?

It should also be stated that there are many musicians that have a very loose sense of timing, or loose sense of pitch (intonation) - these people may not notice the things that are bothering other people as they usually have a higher tolerance for these things.


Please be mindful not to unnecessarily undermine, dismiss or ridicule another musician's observations, tastes/professional creative requirements.


Again... VPROM 3.0 Rocks!

Absolutely some people can't hear groove, pushing ahead of the beat or dragging behind.

But, for most people, MIDI input latency won't be a problem, because they're writing notes in the MIDI editor.

Most humanisation is rubbish, but Gaussian distribution is much better than the usual RNG approach. For REAPER users, Pandabot has made a JSFX (I think it's in REAPack, but don't quote me).

A great article by Michael Beinhorn on time feel here, for anyone wanting to explore it further: https://mjbphd.wordpress.com/2011/08...rimer-on-feel/

This is really sad to me, if true.

What happened to people actually "performing" the rhythm section of their own music - which used to be the best and most fun part of the creative process for musicians?

Even sequenced Classic House music from the late 80s - 90s felt more human and organic.

For most modern EDM, I understand the need for robotic accuracy, but for other genres, surely we should be hearing some of ourselves in our own music?


Damn, I'm starting to sound like Rick Beato - "Back in MY day"...etc.


I better get off this damn midi soapbox before everybody blocks me!


.

House music didn't have live played drums, they used sequencers.

Plenty of people are still playing actual real life drums though!

Apologies for the lack of clarity - I meant that even those Classic House sequences 'felt' more human due to drum machine inconsistencies (and tape).

I had no idea that some people hated those things!

But now, with everything being grid-perfect, or machine "humanized", it all feels a bit sterile to me.

But again, these are just creative preferences.

I'm going to try sequencing VPROM 3.0 externally and see how it feels!

The way it works with the original, is that the hat sound is basically a looped (hat like) noise and it only triggers a short envelope to open it when you press the hat pad. So every time it will be a slightly different position when it plays. Very much like a wavetable synth.
But if you load a one-shot hat in that slot, then it won't work, cause it will randomly play from the quiet parts.

You can load your own noise loops though, presumably looped from an open hat or something, so it's doable.

Yeah if you enable the built in Drift, then even the notes triggered on the same beat will be slightly shifted

I totally agree that a human touch on the groove can add a LOT to the feel. I often play in my beats, or cheat and use a groove from a live drumloop, and it really loses a lot when i quantize it to the grid.

But i'm failing to see the difference between "drum machine inconsistencies " and "machine humanized"

I mean they are both just machines :D

LM-1 & Linn Drum machine inconsistencies are almost infinitely variable within a given sequence - (time, pitch and envelope) due to the internal timing drift and analog components: e.g. filters/voltage tolerances. - Think analog synth versus rompler...

DAW sequencers cannot imbue all of these subtle variations naturally, and so these variations require additional editing/programming - which tend to be sequence recursive, and pulls things further away from the original "performance" when added after.

I see why Aly James added the "drift" feature to VProm 3.0!

Given that some people hate these analog variations/unpredictability in their drums; I guess 'static linear' programming may be preferable to them...

Can I ask a stupid question? I know that this is LM1 recreation. Can it load linn drum vprom if that is even a thing. I really love the sound of Linn generally over LM 1 whenever I hear. I'm not familiar with the technology of vproms at all but just wondering. I have Aly James version 1. Do i need Behringer is the question?

VProm is the LM-1 emulation that also contains eproms of other drum machines including LinnDrum (LM-2). This will sound different than the original LinnDrum and Behringer LM Drum, possibly better.

Ah OK cool makes sense.

Cant seem to open eproms from the factory download.. when i press ‘load kit’ in the plugin , the window it opens, is that supposed to be the location to put the factory stuff? because if it is, it’s a different location to what was specified in the instructions (windows )

Have you seen this video?

thanks.. i've put them in the right place.. but still not showing even after refreshing.. next step try re-installing i guess
Also, no master volume??

I also vote for a master volume (or some kind soul who can point it out it!)

Its a right pain having to kill the plugin in order to drag all the faders down when choosing presets etc. The output is loud.

There must be a global control that gets remembered surely?

Oh, and why can't I change the midi mapping? I see the option but can't change the setting at all.

I do love it but am looking forward to a manual that hopefully dispels these mysteries

There is a master volume knob near the center of the plugin, but it's switchable from MTU (master tuning) to VOL (global volume). You need to click on the text label.

The MIDI mapping should work, i successfully mapped mine, except for EXT2 and CABASA, it's buggy currently but he already confirmed he's working on a fix for it.

Mapping is not really straightforward though, each piece can have 2 midi notes assigned, so when you enable learning you need to press 2 notes. I just triggered the same notes twice, cause i did not need extra notes.

On VProm is the drift affecting anything besides note trigger timing?

Real world clock drift would affect the pitch tone a bit too based on how quickly the individual samples played back. For instance, isn’t the tuning knob tuning on LM-1 just changing the clock rate for sample playback? I added a variable clock to a TR-505 and can get tuning effects somewhat similar to LM-1 tuning changes (not exactly the same of course though)

i found the folder it created (when i reinstalled) it was in the following path- C/Users/my name/One drive/documents .. the path specified using
C/Users/my name/documents was there but didnt work ..

I bought the original , and yes its great , but i just dont like these companies trying to charge you for a new version.

They should give it for free to existing users.

This is how it should be for all vsts , they cannot be allowed to keep charging for updates

It should not be tollerated ...

we cannot allow this ...

You can keep using the original.

A lone dev with a handful of relatively niche products should not be expected to work for nothing for the rest of their lives updating plugins. That is a ridiculous expectation.

Plus, Aly James has previously said that he would like to offer free updates, and if a fraction of the people who steal his plugins paid for them he'd be able to. So I'm not sure you're angry at the right people.

You dont get paid for your job?