Hey, new user.

I already have an average audio interface that I use for really only recording vocals on both PC and Mac (Presonus 24c). I was looking into stepping up my interface and was wondering if there were any recommendations for some of the best ones on the more pricey side. I’ve been heavily researching and looking at the Apollo twin/rack series and RME uf/cx series to compare but I’m really unsure if it would be worth if I’m just recording vocals mostly and occasionally an instrument. Is it better to invest in the more professional interface with more i/o, converters, preamp, etc? Is RME better than Apollo in this case? Thanks for any and all the help!

Your current interface has relatively low gain preamps but that is usually ok with condenser mics anyway.

RME would give you better gain, clean preamps and very low latency Mac and PC drivers but not sure how much you need low latency. More useful if you need lots of VI playing power (I do so I use RME).

Apollo gets you into an ecosystem where you can emulate various preamps but these days you can run these emulations on your computer and don’t need them to be on the interface.

Some recommendations that will have some extra benefits for the future like ADAT expansion and also way better headphone amps, dynamic range and lower noise (not guaranteed you’ll hear this so better buy from a place where you can return stuff no questions asked):

RME Babyface Pro FS (or UCX II if you want more I/O and tons more functionality and even better preamps). Lowest latency of the bunch, most workload possible at a given latency. The UCX even allows direct recording onto a USB stick without needing a computer, has room EQ DSP, and much more. It’s like the Swiss Army knife of interfaces.

MOTU Ultralite MK5 - for the money I don’t think you can do better (similar audio quality as an RME UCX II but cheaper). Low latency on Mac, not as low on PC but if you don’t need heavy VI loads then most people are OK with it.

Audient id24 (or 44 mkII for more I/O) - for the size it has proper FX return inputs that you can also use to directly hit the DAC for ultra clean recordings. Not as high gain preamps as the other two but crazy low noise.

Many more options exist of course (people will often recommend MOTU M2/4/6 but the headphone amp is weaker than the above options and it has no ADAT for example) - I’m trying to make a few recommendations that both sound great and have extra functionality that you may need later like extra IO and ADAT.

Now if you want to spend more, the sky is the limit, a Lynx Aurora is very nice for example but we are talking thousands of dollars, like 4-5K depending on configuration.

Not sure how much more you want to spend.

if you are only recording two channels maximum, there is no need to spend money on 8+ channels.

three candidates:
1. apogee duet 3 with the dock (get the dock, the breakout cables are awful)
2. rme babyface
3. apollo twin

the apollo is only if you want to get into the UA analog emulation. if you don't want that, skip the apollo. it's definitely not the best choice for a clean converter/preamp box and you are paying for features you don't want or need.

apogee and rme are both good choices. they will get you into the middle class of converters (the next step up from those two is mastering grade conversion).

if you know you don't want the apollo, buy the apogee and the rme, do a shootout and keep the winner. if you think you might want the UA ecosystem, buy all three and do a shootout.

Almost guaranteed the RME will have lower latency, more stability, and also TotalMix for routing. But a shootout would be good, because every system is different.

I bought a MOTU Ultralite mk5 because I couldn't justify the cost of a RME UCX II for use on stage. It turned out to be unexpectedly great. Good conversion quality, nice-sounding preamps, lots of I/O. Sounds good and tests great. CueMix is not TotalMix but it gets the job done, once you unclick the checkbox that hides most of the channels.

I'm getting very good latency on a Windows-based tablet PC: 128 samples at 96k puts me at roughly 5 ms, which is fine, even for live performance. The main trick is to make all the Windows bloatwear and background processes behave themselves. Process Lasso is the best tool ever for this and you can use it for free if you don't mind a nag screen when rebooting. Also, go into Task Manager and kill any left-over Edge or Chrome browser processes before doing any critical audio work. Modern browsers are terrible resource hogs.

David

If I didn't need ultra low Windows latency at 48k (and a very small footprint) I'd be going for the Ultralite too. As it stands I went RME since it covers all bases.

No, RME is not better than UAD in this case.

RME is great because it is practically lifetime supported, built like a tank and has incredible drivers. The sound is excellent in that it doesn’t add anything euphonic. It’s pretty clean. The preamps have a tiny bit of mojo. A little touch of sizzle.

UAD has a great sound and I would say is slightly more 3D than RME. At least that’s what the headphone amp is telling me. With UAD you get access to a great, clean preamp, that is designed to utilize UAD FX that add mojo. You want a 1073-like sound? Patch the 1073 on unison. UAD seems pretty committed to their software ecosystem which includes LUNA. The build quality is pretty good, but not as solid as RME. They seem to support their gear. Not sure if old interfaces are supported the way RME supports 25 year old interfaces: these still work! At least in PC world.

I don’t know much about the Presonus of today. Some people say their gear is great. I owned a few pieces and they were good.

If you don’t want to wonder just get a Prism, Metric Halo, DAD, Lavry, Neumann and turn the page. You can waste so much mental energy on this stuff. For me, I was just listening to some music I tracked through an Apogee AD8000 and Mini-Me and used Waves Renaissance to process. Sounds incredible. This was the first pro gear I bought and it made a HUGE difference. But Apogee had a “sound” back then. They built their analog sections to sweeten the sound in a way that they felt was good. A lot of great records were made with their gear.

You forgot Lynx and Burl

96k with a 128-byte buffer and 48k with a 64-byte buffer have exactly the same latency and place the demand on your computer's processor. The throughput to your storage media is half as much, but that's never a bottleneck now that computers use solid state drives.

Great companies. Burl (Rich Williams) was the brain behind UAD famed converter 2192. Lynx everyone knows from their LynxOne and Lynx2 pci cards.

I agree, grabbing a b2 bomber or Hi-lo 2 would be great.

Nothing wrong with evertying presented here. For options, other stuff to look up.

For stuff easy to move.
With 3 good preamps, the Mixpre six is cool
With 16 good preamps, CQ18T is a cool mixer that can be used as an interface.

For larger systems.
The best for low lag is RME MADI card and Feffofish A32
Anything from RME will be lower lag than others offer because they have kick ass drivers. Older RME gear has value becuase they keep supported the older gear with new OS updated.

I have and use all three of the above systems. The CQ18T is used the most right now with my band. Just slip an SD card in the mixer and capturing the gig or practice is a brease.

In theory yes but when I try it, the same session that works at 48/256 has crackles at 96/512, for example.

For vocal recording, I highly recommend getting a decent outboard preamp, and plugging into the line inputs on a good interface with enough I/O to get you what you want - and ideally low latency monitoring via its own mixer, and not through the DAW.

RME is a good shout for this. Apollo can do it too, but if you ever did need to monitor through the DAW then Apollo isn't the best choice.

A Golden Age Projects 1073 preamp isn't too expensive, and they sound good. If you get the built in EQ model, then you can also get a way more mix-ready vocal tone straight into the DAW, versus just plugging your mic into the pre's on a Presonus.

The buffers aren't measured in bytes. They're measured in samples.

any 'modern' interface will let you make professional recordings...it's down to features/drivers at the end of the day.


Find out what features you want and stop worrying about conversion, it won't be the limiting factor in your records.





M

Generally agreed but there can be very large differences in preamps and headphone out, aside from the other features.

The conversion itself usually won’t be the limiting factor.

Having said that, I’ve had good results with a cheap Scarlett, a FEThead and an SM58

But without the FEThead it’s a bit of a problem, and the headphone out is weak.

You're right, of course. That's my early days of writing 8-bit embedded code coming back to haunt me. At any rate, it's 64 or 128 bus operations per service call, which was my actual point. Samples will be moved as 32-bit words on an Intel platform, as 24-bit integers are not a supported type.

David

If you can afford it, I’d say go for Hilo + B2. That’s my setup and I’m very happy with it.

Hilo is very smooth to use with the Hilo software routing and metering, and the B2 sounds great. The adjustable input transformer on the B2 gives you something I don’t think any other ADC has (correct me if I’m wrong, maybe RND does something like it).

If you believe in transformers at the end of a recording chain, and/or believe Burl’s philosophy that a converter should not make the sound artificially sterile, then it might be for you.

That is, if you don’t believe that going for ”neutral” conversion makes sense or is desirable for the purposes of making records.

It makes sense in other cases, like documentary purposes or forensics. Remember 70’s movies with detectives with tape recorders? Of course they wanted a neutral or objective sound. Perhaps that’s where the notion of a neutral recording comes from, and perhaps manufacturers of recorders (tape and then digital) sold it to them as neutral. Because for music it makes little sense. Music is good or bad, not true or false.

Musical recordings aren’t supposed to represent reality. They’re supposed to become artworks. Which means it depends on taste. The B2 has a sound. I like it, maybe some don’t.

Anubis or Hapi. You will not regret it.

It is also quite reasonable compared to the option I have thought of and proposed.