Yes I can see how 4 VCA's isn't going to get me very far but using multiples I can at least use the same settings for more voices.

A CV mixer could also do it. Add envelope and velocity gates together, then output of that into the input on one Veils VCA.

But as mentioned previously, you can never have too many VCAs.

I meant mixing two voices then output to one VCA channel. CV mixer sounds a great utility but I had a quick look and couldn't find one specifically for CV.

Something like this which is CV and audio? But then I might as well get another VCA mixer apart from this being cheaper.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a_...ogarithm_2.htm

I only have 4 VCAs (tangled quartet) in my 250HP system and I don't really feel like I need more but I also have a bunch of modules that don't really need VCAs (drums, rings) and a dual LPG (Optomix) which can be used as a VCA for audio. I do have a ton of CV mixing options (triatt, quadratt, maths). For me it's the mixers that I can never have to many of. I don't always need the CV control though.

Either of these will work with audio or CV. There's a switch to go from uni to bi polar. I couldn't live without one.

https://intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/triatt/
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutabl...uments-shades-

I thought you wanted to combine the envelope for the VCA as well as the velocity? You can use a mixer (or VCA with mix out capabilities - or even one channel of a VCA depending on whether the VCA has a gain pot/knob) capable of audio or CV for that. (or just CV) Envelope out into mixer ch 1, velocity into mixer ch 2, set voltage/gain to taste, and mix out to CV control of VCA. For a VCA, just take the env into ch 1, set gain where you'd like it, take velocity out into CV control of VCA channel, then out into the actual audio channel's VCA CV input.

I've seen so many posts like this, but I think it can be misleading, particularly to those just getting started. VCAs can be used for so much more than mere level controls for voices.

VCAs can be useful in a number of scenarios however. They can be used as straight attenuators. You can get pseudo ring mod tones by audio rate modulating an audio signal with a VCA. You can even use a VCA to provide logic functions - AND being the classic case. In many cases they can be used as mixers, depending on the functionality of the VCA - I often use mine to mix just a couple of channels while using the other channels as individual channels.

Many are capable of working with either audio or CV, but IMO CV possibilities are why one can never have enough VCAs. If I wanted to modulate say a filter's cutoff or resonance more only on the 4th beat of a measure, this could be done by passing in the cutoff/resonance modulation into a VCA, out into the proper CV input on the filter, but CV control this VCA channel with either an envelope triggered only on the 4th beat, an LFO anded with a gate on the fourth beat, etc. Want self-generating melodies? How bout adding square waves LFOs not synched timing wise together at different levels via a VCA, with the output going to a quantizer and into V/Oct. Better yet, take your pitch sequence and add those summed square waves, using a frequency adder to combine the original sequence with some differences in the melody.

There are a bazillion and one ways one can use a VCA in a system other than merely control the audio output of a voice. And trust me, I'm not brilliant enough to come up with these ideas on my own. I watch a number of videos on different patches and how to use certain module types, then I daydream at work about different ways to patch things.

I agree with Cane Creek about Euro, this seems like a misconception.

So as to your initial question...I don't think Serge and Buchla are in any way comparable other than both being modular synthesizers that tend towards expensive. While both are functionally dense there are some pretty huge, fundamental differences in the approach to patch building (resonant filters vs. lpgs, all voltages vs. separate audio/ctrl paths, module selection, etc.). The fact that they share a forum on MW seems to imply that they're different sides of the same coin but I don't see it at all. If I was set on a Buchla system I can't really imagine a Serge satisfying that itch; or vice versa. I think the sort of synthesizer you want needs to be driving this decision more than people's opinions of build quality (which are, you know, just like people's opinions, man; some people will call non panel mounted pots "low build quality" when in fact those modules can last just as long while simply being potted with a different aesthetic/goal). And whether I was more interested in something Serge-like or Buchla-like I definitely would not make the mistake of discounting Euro; in addition to offering a huge selection of various Serge and Buchla descendent modules the wide variety of 'other' modules makes it the ideal platform to make something new that doesn't depend so totally on the exclusive design decisions of 4 decades ago.

I can't comment on the overall build quality of Buchla other than to suggest that there is a somewhat thriving cloning community. So high quality Buchla modules can definitely be sourced even if it's not from BEMI. (Please note I'm not saying BEMI modules aren't high quality, I'm not entirely sure). Possibly more aggravating than the build quality is that actually ordering BEMI modules is apparently quite a pita, something like ordering from AMSynths where you have to be timely, quick, patient and a little bit lucky to finish your a la carte Buchla system. But my understanding is that there are pretty long wait times from STS as well (and I think STS doesn't even have online contact/ordering, last I heard it was still a catalog kind of situation).

It's not true that Euro is not as good and robust as a system long-term. It depends on the parts you buy. For example the quality of my Analogue Systems case or my Vermona TwinVCAmp is hard, if not impossible to beat in any format. But if you go the wall wart power and wobbly knobs road, well, that's a whole other story...

I feel you on this smitty...I'm 6'1, I have giant hamfists only fit for pounding on bass strings really, and presbyopic eyes that make glasses a necessary evil just to properly wiggle. I also considered larger formats before going Euro with the same exact concerns as you, but in the end the other factors won out and I don't regret it at all. The variety and endless options make the ergonomic concerns worth it.
You get a vibe for the jacks and their locations once you've played around with a module a few times. Plus careful placement of modules helps too. If all the plugs are on the bottom I try to put that module in the top row or at least not in the bottom row so as to not block the controls with cables. Also, use LONG cables that can be shoved out of the way rather than short cables that have no give, nothing is lamer than having to squeeze your fingers through a near-rigid web of cables barely reaching from one jack to the next, and it's also asking for broken jacks and cables too.

As far as robustness I'd say it's like anything else. I've had great luck with most stuff and a few turds here and there. Most manufacturers take pride in their work in euroland- standouts for me being Moog, Mutable Instruments, Intellijel, and Make Noise. And my Doepfer case rocks. Best case ever.

Don't let the small size fool you. Euro is totally as valid and viable as any of the other formats with probably 10x the variety.

Whatever way you go- Buy a case that holds more than you think you need or want with a power supply to match.

Got the email from Detroit Modular that my Avalon has shipped, tears of joy on that. I was thinking I would have to somehow make it through the weekend living solely on my anticipation alone when the Lofi Junky showed up a day early. Can't wait to get home and power that guy up!

Gonna buy an Avalon as well, Schneiders had still one left in stock so I couldn't resist... I already bought a 303 while waiting for the new batch of Avalons, so there's gonna be the question if I'm gonna keep both

Here's an example of the above. Melodic content is all from square waves in Batumi and modulating them through a VCA -> Offset -> Doepfer Quantizer.



Since I just got the E350 Expander, (yeah, too lazy to build one on my own and it was on sale for 20 or 25% off at Perfect Circuit for the holidays) I also modulated some phase via the Z Morph input on the E350 starting about midway through using Sloths.

All melodic changes, etc though are strictly from wiggling gain on VCA inputs, adding or adjusting modulation to the VCA channel and the occasional use of transpose on the Doepfer quantizer.

Patch explained in description on soundcloud.

Obviously, this is just one non VCO attenuation use of VCAs, but as you can see you can get pretty creative with just a few channels of VCA and creative modulation of them.

5u and Euro owner here. The trouble with systems like Buchla, Serge, and 5u is that you're going to be limited on module selection. You won't ever get to experience the joys of Elements, Clouds, or some random module that a guy on eBay thought up and is selling. Also, an argument against 5u is that it's very very very west-coast. You can do some cool stuff with some imagination, but most of the 5u modules out there are more in line with a Moog system. That being said, I love my DotCom for the raw power that it exhudes. The size is nice and the build quality is almost too good at times if that makes sense.

I think because it's such a popular format, it attracts a lot of builders and some of them aren't as good as others. Something from Make Noise, Doepfer, or Studio Electronics is built to last whereas something from Pittsburgh or a DIY build isn't going to be as robust. I stay with euro for the crazy variety and versatility. In euro, if you can imagine it and can get the modules you need to make it so, you can synthesize it.

For those in the Bay Area, I just got word that RobotSpeak has the elusive Mantis cases in stock.

I have just purchased a Jupiter 8 filter: AM8109 and feel very priveleged and pleased to get one - I'll have it next week. Thanks Rob. I think this was my initial inspiration for wanting to enter the world of modular was being able to get a vintage Jupiter, Juno Roland sound without spending a fortune (a modest eurorack being a lot less but still expensive) but now I see there is so much more to modular and what can be achieved but I am still interested how close you can get to a realistic Jupiter sound or using any classic vintage filter for that matter. Two VCO's, a filter, envelope, and LFO - how difficult can that be? I realise that the VCO's add a bit of that character as well and also there is some physical character between how the parts of a circuit work together. I'm sure some of you must tried this and had the same thought as me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Hce30hF_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOBCvpOkdoc

I wonder if my Omikron and JP8 VCF will get me close?

Just in under the wire for this year, I took advantage of ProAudioStar's sales and snagged these:





Once these arrive, I'll have the full set of Aira modules less the System-1m (one day!) Also got my eyes on another module that I'm reluctant to mention here because it's suddenly went scarce without me realizing it.

BAM!



I had no idea that these had been discontinued and it's been on my wishlist for about a year. Was only able to find one on eBay and one on Muff's, so figured I'd better snag one before it becomes unobtainium. I can't be the only one that's fetishized these.

My first wiggle with Qu-bit Chord this evening
One of those set and forget patches

I think you'll find you will spend a fortune after all

Congrats on entering the AMS club

Now I have an even worse case of GAS for that thing. I hate you!

Additionally, that thing sounds like it would pair really nicely with a LoFi Junky.

Junky is kinda next on my list then I better stop for a while.......

I say kinda because......well.....Eurorack can turn any good man into a liar

I guess Nebulae is now the predecessor to Wave

I've gone sexdrature

On sale for $340 at perfect circuit right now...down from $400!

short Instagram video from Richard Devine, using Morpheus filter module:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOp2L-yDnt4/

I guess you're right, though Wave looks kinda limited in contrast. Whatevs, I'm just glad to finally own one. I noticed that Richard Devine shed his, but he did just get an ER-301, so I'm sure that's more than enough sampler for what he does.

Done dammit! I hate you all!

I love being an enabler!

Wish I had more room. I know, I know, buy another case! But I need to chill for a while. I've got more than enough to keep me busy for years.

Speaking of...had to rearrange the case a bit to fit in the WMD MME Expander. Basically all modules in a row had to be moved over about 1 hp. Sliding nuts suck when this is the case. I'd really like to rearrange some other stuff now that everything's almost filled out, but it just seems like so much work with these sliding nuts...