Perfect, great you find it valuable. When I do space pair, I typically also take that diagonal line as the center and measure both mics from snare and kick. Depending on what I want, the mics either end up above the toms or further out above the cymbals, snare and kick being dead center. I believe I saw George Massenburg talking about approaching the kit that way which made total sense to me.

Thanks again for opening my mind to this way of perceiving the kit. It seems so obvious now!
I guess the principle also applies to how you approach room mic placement with the center being a continuation of that diagonal line?
It really does all make so much more sonic sense than the conventional drummers perspective approach.

I use the diagonal, though often with ORTF mic placement with SDCs. It really gives a nice stereo thing, and keeps the cymbals out of the center, and not getting in the way of the lead vocal or solos.

If I use a coincident pair or stereo mic, I do adjust them to the same diagonal. I've got the 12Gauge stereo mic set up right now and it's fun.

I'm curious about this overhead setup. Please tell us what you're going for and what it brings to the table.

I'm digging this on my laptop as I surf. Sorry you don't have your studio any longer.

Exactly. A coincident room mic array will end up at the extension of that diagonal, so the capsules pretty much face along the edges of the kit at floor and rack tom respectively. If you want more "spread", move rather close to the kit.
With a spaced pair, they will each face the toms pointing to the snare. That's a rough description and of course depends on the actual drumkit.

As Tony said, ORTF also works great with this approach for both overs and rooms.

it's my first time really give some attention to drum. I recorded my friend for my songs that's indie, chamber popish songs. wanted very low and dry kit,

so here is my first attempt

Kick - M88, Tlm170
SN - M160, SM57 (bottom)
Hat - CM4
Overhead - beesneez bm49 mono
room - Lrm2b mono
Shoulder - Tlm170

all went aml ez1073-500 with little eq in, hat and room mic with rpq500.

not mixed yet since still haven't finished songs, it's just raw sounds from all mic. (I might muted room mic)

Mostly ADK and Telefunken mics.

14 16 and 18 toms, but only a 22 kit? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Almost concisely, for two years now, I've paired both 12-14-16 and 14-16-18 tom sets with a 24 tuned loosely without much of any dampening and the result is very satisfying.

Beautiful studio and a great setup there!

cool room. love that diffuser above the kit.

Thanks, Correct! The drummer actually just borrowed my DW studio kick, but used mostly the rest of his own kit he brought because of his familiar rack setup, etc. He loved the sound of the kick which records very well with the Telefunken M82 and ADK 67T out in front.

From this weeks session where we needed a super dead 70s soul Al Green vibe and totally nailed it thanks to copious amounts of towels and snare dampeners on a truly gorgeous sounding vintage Ludwig Acrolite.

Kick in - Beyer M88
Kick out - Stam 47 Fet
Snare top - Beyer M201
Snare bottom - Beyer M81
Rack - Beyer D35
Floor - Sennheiser MD421 (white)
Overheads - Coles 4038
Room - AEA R88

Smiles for miles ������

had a very elaborate setup today.

60's rogers 12/14/20 kit
70's ludwig supraphonic snare 5x14
fiberskin heads on toms no muffling except a little moon gel on the floor Tom
bass drum no muffling
snare had a bit of moongel

istanbul agop cymbals.

one microphone. my old trusty coles 4038.

was just getting an idea down so didn't even use my outboard preamps, just ran the coles right into my universal audio apollo 8 blackface interface.

used the UA API vision channel strip as the unison preamp.

eq using the UAD API eq. rolled off around 30hz on the hi pass, pulled out 2 clicks at 500hz, added one click at 50hz.

had UAD FATSO hitting about 3-4db compression. sent a little of this mic to UAD capitol chambers reverb.

mix had the ATR tape machine and cytomic glue ssl style compressor and then L2 to fill the meter.

got a cool, mono, vibey drum sound i'm going to use on a few songs.

i've been obsessed lately with getting drum sounds with as few mics as possible. usually use my r88 overhead and a mic by the kick. today this turned out pretty cool with just the coles.

i found two spots that sounded great. the kick drum sounded bigger obviously, when the coles was lower, but then i had less body to the snare and more snap from the snares.

moved it up a bit and lost some of the boom of the bass drum but got a great snare and tom sound.

if i had someone else here playing while i moved the mic, i know i could find a nice balance.

i've posted 2 little clips one with the coles about 1ft off the ground and one with it about 3ft off the ground. same distance from the kit.

this is exactly how i usually place my AEA R88 stereo ribbon over my kit.

this is so close to my setup i use a lot.

i swap out the r88 and coles for room or overhead duty. beyer m88 in kick, m201 on snare. i have bock u195 FET i usually have on kick outside

toms 421, lauten 308 or the little clip on sennheisers. 604 ? can't remember.

nice room.

Overdue a contribution to this thread, seeing as I owe it quite a lot for all the inspiration

Just wrapped up some remote drum sessions for a great record. Going for a tight dry thing... you can probably guess who one of my favourite drummers is

Pearl Fiberglass Kick, C&C Player Date toms, 60s Ludwig COB. 70s Paiste 602/Istanbul Agop cymbals.

Signal chains were:

Kick AKG D12 - AML 1073 - Kush Electra EQ - SPL Transient Designer - DBX 560A Comp
Kick United Fet47 - AML 1073 - Warm Pultec - DBX 560A Comp
Snare Top - Beyerdynamic M201 - API 512c - API 550a EQ - IGS 576 comp
Snare Bottom Sennheiser MD441 - API 512c - EQ on desk
Toms - AKG C414 B-ULS - CAPI VP28 - SSL XR425 EQ - SPL Transient Designer
OHs - Soyuz 017 FET - AML 1073 - Kush Electra EQ
OH Mono - Coles 4038 - UA 110 - API 550A - Crane Song Falcon
Hats - Beyerdynamic M160 - UA 4-710 - Kush Electra
Rooms - Soyuz 013 FET - Focusrite ISA - EQ on desk

Everything ran line level into the Soundtracs CM4400 console at the studio for some additional little EQ moves here and there. I also printed all the tracks with a touch of UAD Studer to firm things up. The audio is the sounds I got on the way in, with that hint of Studer and UAD Distressor in parallel on the bus.

Love that snare!

Watched an old Steve Albini video and decided to give his general setup a bash at this weeks session as it was very much the vibe in question.
A LOT I loved about this set up i must say

Kick in - Beyer m88
Kick Out - Stam fet47
Snare top -Beyer m201
Snare bottom - Beyer m201
Rack Top - Beyer m81
Rack Bottom - Beyer d35
Floor top - Sennheiser MD421
Floor under - Beyer d35
Overheads ( behind the kit) - Cascade Fatheads
Ride overhead - Neumann U87
Blumlein Rooms - Bash Audio RM-BIV1
Ambient mics on floor - Groove Tubes GT33

Here’s a recent pic from my home studio.



Oriollo Bakar Spun Copper Drums: 22X14, 13X9, 16X14
UFIP Cymbals

Bass Drum (In): Shure Beta 91A
Bass Drum (Hole): Shure Beta 52A
Bass Drum (Out 1): Neumann TLM-102 with Earthworks KickPad KP1
Bass Drum (Out 2): Solomon LoFReQ Sub-Mic
Snare: Earthworks SR25
Toms Top: Shure Beta 98H/C
Toms Bottom: Shure Beta 98AMP
Overheads: Earthworks SR25 (2x)
Room Stereo: AEA R88 MKII
Hi-Hat: Shure SM81
Wurst Mic 1: Electro-Voice 635A
Wurst Mic 2: Placid Audio Copperphone

Preamps: Cadac E Type 36 Channels Sidecar Analog Console
Interfaces: Antelope Goliath HD, RME Madi FX.

So, you're a guitarist?

🤣🤣🤣

I'd love to see that video ! And hear your kit !

M160- Mono Kit
Sony ecm22’s- Ride/Hat
57s’ -Snare/Rack
7B- Floor
Fc-357- “under kit”
Beta52- Kick In

Been experimenting a lot with the Moses Schneider Droom mic technique. It's been a real game changer for me and feels like its enabled me to properly be in control of the drums in my room for the first time. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone using a smaller space to track drums.

This is a rough print of a part of one of the songs - nothing done to any of the tracks yet other than the vocals as they were tracked with a little compression, eq and verb.

I've muted everything but the drums at a couple of sections to hear those in isolation.

Kick In - Beyer M88
Kick Out - FET47
Snare Top - SM57
Snare Bottom - Beyer M81
Crotch - SM57
Rack - PVM520tn
Floor MD421
Mono Overhead - U87AI
Mono Underhead - 12 Guage Red
Droom Mics - Pair of M201

Is that an original Phantom guitar? Myself and a friend of mine reissued all the vox guitars in ‘99-01 or so. That phantom brings back memories. lol

Well spotted! Great guitars - such as unique tone and feel. Gotta love the padded back!
I actually have no idea what year this is from as it has zero serial numbering or markings whatsoever. Was loaned to me by a friend who bought it from an ex band member so neither of us seem to know when its from. Pretty perfect condition though so I'm thinking a recentish reissue. Could well be one of yours!!!

please explain this whole 'underhead' concept? I may be using a different name for it . . .

The "droom" mics are room mics which are close to the kit, facing away from it. Moses explains it here, along with the "snareo". Not to mention the infamous "Wurst". Those Periscope mics are really killer, by the way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkw12xsLytc

When I was experimenting with the drooms I was finding the whole concept worked better with a mono overhead and felt super focused yet clear and wide with bags of character from the wurst mic where needed. However the low end body I usually enjoy from ribbon or condenser room mics was missing. Adding in an underhead mic about a foot from the floor pointing up kinda equal distance from snare rack and kick brought back all that low end weight I was missing. The underhead, overhead and drooms are all the same distance from the snare which makes the imaging, punch and clarity better than anything I’ve ever before experienced

The crotch mic has become an indispensable part of drum recording today!! Great for a dirt mic that you can mix in and give your drum tracks a great sense of 3 dimensionality.
The reverse microphone underhead concept is new to me, I'll admit but I can see it adding to the overall room capture in a very positive way! Flipped phase?

Definitely check out the video I linked above, if you love the "Wurst", you wouldn't want to miss out on the "Snareo" - reminds me of JJP.