It all depends on the sample...just like selecting a certain kit when trying to mic-up a live drummer. Every snare has a different sound and the chain of electronics you use to record them with.
We prefer the Kurzweil systems..the rack has 10 outputs and we individually seperate every "piece of the kit" at our board. SO we spend considerable time with the >> Eq >>>the ring of the sample >>>the placement of the sound in the mix , etc. And can easily call that kit up in the future, since every thing is automated. I started playing drums before the Beatles hit the stage on Ed Sullivan......carried those kits around large outdoor shows(many times twice a day)....Casino circuit....Wally Heider Studios (SF)...etc. Spent my time placing those mics and making them sound good on 2 in tape at home.......But I welcomed the digital world with a open ear in 1980~~~~~~~and have not turned back yet.

http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=cjogo#music

Well I thought the sounds on your mp3s were pretty damn good! Those are your Kat? How much do those go for? What's a good way to start out doing programmed drums?

A full 21 pad Kat is about $600 demo/used and a rack Kurzweil is about from $300 up (depending onwhich of the 6 models)..glad you liked the tunes---- I will load up 5 more next week. I perform live with this kit and the realism is fantastic.






recording at Wally Heiders '75

I know these aren't the clearest pics (in terms of informative relative mic-position observations), but here's some from a recent session I did.

this one from over the overheads (in this case, one of the Klaus-modified U67s)

Although it's impossible to see, there's a 421 on the tom, a KM84 on the hat, and a 57 on snare with a 4050 in figure-8 on the shell (below the 57)

the distant room mics (Milab DC-96)

The close room mic (my baby, an M49c)

And the rest of the "front-end"

Gorgeous, Dave.

You're not the one who used those fancy swedish mics into the HV-3's that got me all juiced up, were you? ;-)

Whoa!

NICE!

Dave,

you are a lucky man : )

Jason

Yeah, that was me.

-dave

You son of a bitch.

Are you a drummer btw? Man... those tracks must sound amazing- post some clips!

Nah, I'm just an engineer/mixer ... Though I have been told I have the "mind of a drummer" sometimes.

The tracks do sound pretty nice, if I do say so myself ... As to posting clips, I'll see what I can do when I get to the mix in a couple of weeks (they're still in production/overdubs). There are lawyers involved and I don't want to piss off anyone who might be piss-off-able by having their client's music "leaked" without prior approval. I think it'll be okay, though.

-dave

http://www.inkydust.com/drumpic.html


Very modest setup though things have changed....a Focusrite 428 has joined to handle some of the drum micing duties.


regards,
spoon

Hey Dave, curious where you picked up those Milabs...

Ever tried the VM44 for overheads, or the VIP for vocals?

The VM44, no, but the VIP for vocals, yeah.. That's what got me on the Milab kick in the first place. The VIP-50 is a very nice, albeit ugly microphone.

Now I've got a pair of the DC-96B, 3 of the original Pearl/PML DC-96, and one of the continuously-variable multipattern PML DC-63.. They're pretty cool mics, unique because of their large, rectangular diaphragm, which exhibits different resonances than your average circular condenser capsule.

I think I bought the Milabs out of Pro Audio Marketplace, and the old PMLs were picked up from a former Cleveland studio owner who had them sitting around his TV repair shop.

I won't tell you what I paid for them, but rest assured it was a 2-digit number

-dave

Glad our clients do not have knowledge of your site!!! That rack of yours~~~would cost them in rental----20 times more then they could afford---and money that would not fall into my pockets.. (Hmm!)

Nothing wrong with a few of Georges' EQ-, Pres , though


cjogo

Here's how we miced the kit in the production workshop at Micheal Wagener's studio last weekend.

We took two days and tested 16 mics for the overheads, 8 kick mics and 5 snare mics.

We came up with a HUGE drum sound.

KC,

that looks way cool!... could you list the mics you guys ended up using?

thanks for posting

Hey KC,
what's sticking there in the Kik ? Funny stand !

Sure, I'd be glad to break it down.

We used Sennheiser 504s on both top and bottom of the snare. They easily sounded better than the typical 57.



The shot below show's the AKG shotgun mic used up over the drummer's right sholder.



Hi-Hat is an AKG-451EB, used for it's very bright high end.

Toms had AKG D3800s.

Overheads are a Royer SF-12 in the center and a pair of Groove Tubes AM40s on the outside.

Ride cymbal was miced from the bottom with a Schoeps CMC5/MK4.

The kick has an SM91 inside and the Infinity woofer/kick mic out front.

We also used an E-47 out in front as a room mic and Fritz the head a little further out into the room.

Adding the tube traps at the end tightened the room sound up big time.

looks like a 5" speaker to me. Cool. What do you use for a pre? It's got to be 8 or 16 ohms. I've used 18" speakers in front of kiks but they have weak signal into pres with normal impedance, if you transform the impedance it helps a little. Great 3:2 translation, size wise (22" a 18"). I mount one inside on elastics with a beta 56 off axis pointed at the beater and it works even if you put the second head on. With a bass cabinet I'll screw a speaker directly to another on the cabinet 10, 15, 18, and it gives me true response from lo-lo to about 3k, the highs are a different story but with bass I seldom need them, anything higher is usually annoying, it's power and dynamics I'm looking for, direct translation.

Try pointing that bottom snare mic. exactly 180° from the top mic. and not straight up, just following exactly the physical principle. Try using the AM 40 on the left to mic the right side and vica versa. you probably need a little more diffussion on that closet, open the doors. Nice setup!!!

I'd love to hear that kit/set up on tape. I really like drum sounds that are both close and roomy. When it's done right (hard to do) it sounds great.

On a related note... I am getting ready to record a bunch of drum tracks and I'm wondering if the room where I work (teaching school) would be a good choice of locations. The room was a high school band room at one point, it is about 30 feet by 30 feet with a 20 foot high ceiling and carpet on the floor. The walls are a mix of painted cement, wood columns and cork board. Is there some way to test other than setting up the set and all the mics? If it sounds like a good location, should I record in the center of the room, on a side or in a corner? Any information would be helpful.

Pictures of my mics without their capsules on? Bare back guitar amps? Watch my analog hardware 'interface' with the digital stuff!!!

Oh yeah baby; stick my mic in your kit... move it to the right' I'm listening in the cans, yeah right there oh don't move... u-h-h; more gain more gain yes yes !!!
I should be ashamed of myself;

ok not.
Jeff

Ok perverts - gearporn is not about using gear as tools to make porn movies, it’s about how a gearslutz would choose to surf the web for a shot at a nice rack in a cool control room - instead of a nice rack on a cool blond.

Personally I need both in my daily diet... heh

The key with all the mics we tested was to LISTEN. I really have to thank Michael Wagener for driving that point home.

There was more than one instance when the placement that sounded best defied all the conventions of micing drums.

That closet doors were never a problem, check out the second shot with the kit. We added the auralex on the walls and the tube traps, the balance in the room was great. We were definetly listening for how much room was in the sound and we came up with just the right balance.

Just found this picture of a drum session. Standard stuff: D112 + 47FET on kick, 57's on snare, 421's on toms don't remember what the room mics were, all going through an SSL G+4052 w/E-series EQs. What was interresting was the drummer had the floor tom to the left of the snare, making the "center" off center. I had to add another overhead to the right by the ride cymbal. Overheads were SM81's - not my first choice.

It sounds like this