I loved your mixes on the D&R stuff. DEEP sounding man. Like front to back. And everything gelled together nicely. Still really clear too.

Back when that desk came out, we had a little project studio and had a sales rep come out to pitch that desk. We had inquired about it, got brochures in mail (still have these), and they sent somebody out. We wanted it so bad, but at time just could not swing it.
Couple of years later,owner spent money on 51 series Neve (PITA connectors etc.), then the recession hit. Owner sold everything off.

It was ok, but it was no 8078. It was workable. Could have been more open on top.

Shoulda got the D&R.

PM me Bill.
We are building out new room in 1700's mansion with a huge ballroom, domed ceiling etc.
Not mine of course.

Anyways, we might be interested. Biz partner still using lots of tape. CR being framed out though now. Not sure he's ready till work is done, and we already arranged for another console. That said, I love that console.

Can't hurt to ask.

Thx man. Much appreciated - ESPECIALLY coming from you.


Don't make the same mistake twice. LOL I'd love for her to go to someone I knew would appreciate her. I sent you a PM.


PS - your new room sounds REALLY interesting.....

What about it does not make it a complete solution? Adding further to the discussion, does a "modern" console need to actually be a complete solution in every respect? Consoles were originally made to be the heart of studios and help integrate everything together, they were essential in every sense. That's not the case anymore though, lots of us don't even run a console.

A lot of us just want something to shoot stems to that has a great master section, a few routing options and some compression. The fact that it "only has 4 channels" actually appeals to me. I've worked out of studios where we used only the SSL or Neve preamps for everything. Nothing wrong with that, but I've found over the years that I prefer more flavors during tracking. I don't really want to spend more money to have more API channels at tracking. But that's just me.

I'm not going to argue with you about your opinion. The Box very well may be too limiting for your workflow and purposes, but that does not mean it's universally not a complete solution. It's a perfect fit for a lot of us that do this for a living and would like a few options built into a smaller console. I would agree that it's a bit overpriced, but not by much if you add all that stuff together separately from API. I'll be looking for a used one at some point around the $10K mark, I think it's a good deal at that price point.

If it's not too personal, are you up to use another console or did you go ITB? Few months ago I sold a D&R 4000. Great desk too. Funny story though, the guy who bought it, said, he is actually mixing fully ITB, but needs a good looking console just for show, to fool his clients. Because as he stated, a lot of his clients still have this obsolete notion, that when there is no real console in the studio, then it is not a real studio, hahahaha. He even didn't care if it is fully working, as long as the lights go on, hahahaha.

I relate with him. I only use my console for summing. I could go back to my previous setup of the great river mixmaster which sounded excellent but when I got a console clients loved it. Instant street cred when they walked in and people love getting pics in front of it.

If I wanted to go completely console-less it would be difficult from a marketing point of view. With my new setup I will probably use the neve sidecar I got for summing and the main console will often not be used. I guess I just to make sure the lights are working

I'm doing a "hybrid" thing now. 80 channels of outboard into Pro Tools hardware inserts. I love this console, and the main reason I'm not integrating it into the new CRM I built is that it was a tad too large (6-7 feet wide and a tad tall), I'm doing more mixing than tracking these days, and I wanted the acoustics to be as good as they possibly could be. The room has some other "challenges" (mostly windows which I wanted to keep as I'm in a forest now) and adding another (console) would have pushed it too far. So...since this is my personal production space with no clients, she has to go. I COMPLETELY dig the whole client first impression thing, and often in my old CRM, I would turn on the console when I wasn't actually using it when clients showed up. Works like a charm. I've secured many new clients that way. There is nothing that screams "I'm a pro" like a big console.

So....who wants this beauty???? I'm sad, but if you're anywhere near me and will allow me to occasionally work on her (tracking), I'd be mighty inclined to cut a deal.....

Hahaha. I use my console hardly ever too. But I will keep it for sentimental reasons. The digital domain became too darn good.

Thanks for the reply! I was assuming that. I was just curious if you want to replace the Orion with something else or say Goodbye to analog desks for good. Lately you hear often that pros of your league ditch their analog desks. I think it's not a coincidence.
I'm not a potential buyer for your console, since I'm located in Europe, but I can tell you this: if I ever should get a chance to buy a nice 24x channel Orion console for a reasonable price, I will buy it and never ever give it away. It's the best professional desk for the money IMHO.

Yeah but Downward Spiral was mixed at A&M and Record Plant by Alan Moulder, pretty sure it wasn't mixed on a Mackie

I've got nothing against analog desks, and I will not replace the OrionX. That's insanity to sell a desk this good and replace it. My OrionX has been in storage for almost 4 years now, and I should have put it up FS 4 years ago as it's unlikely that I'll ever commission it again, but it's a hard thing for me to do. I love it, it's been a 1 owner console and I'll never find one this clean again. But I have to weigh whether or not I'll ever have a room that could take it. And at this point, I have to think no, I'll never have that room. So, she's up FS. So to answer your question, I have had several rooms in my time, but at this point, I'm getting older and more focused towards my personal productions than at client amenities and I'm thinking of downsizing more than ramping up. So..... <sigh>

Actually, I've been toying with the idea of cutting it into 3 16 channel desks with a summing box and Silver Bullet on the output. That would be a KILLER situation. But that takes time and effort, and certainly this year or next is not the year for me to do that kind of thing....

Dont do it, good doctor! Even the lowliest console has magic yet to be attained by soft stuff


Your ole pal, C

Haha!! That it does. But you need room to put it in don't you? I made a conscious decision to have a better sounding, more accurate, more compact control room this time around. There's just no room for it at this point - either in my life, or in my studio.

HOWEVER - I am in discussions with DanD about making it into between 2-4 "mini consoles" with a Silver Bullet on the output of the 2 Bus if I don't get a serious buyer. This might be the perfect solution for me - having my cake and eating it too!! AND sharing the love with a couple other guys. We'll see how it goes. But it has not been a snap decision. I've been waffling on this for coming on 4 years now.... Time to move on........

True - for the album version. But that remix, the one that NoiseWagon linked in a YouTube video - WAS one of the tracks that I mixed entirely on a Mackie 32 8-bus.

Ahh I see, nice work I love your remix!

Why thank you. Of course, at the time, equipped with my Mackie 32x8 and two 24-channel expanders, I thought that I DID have a console! (A noisy one to be sure, but... it sure looked cool.)

Those remixes were just four tracks of audio playback from hard drive, using a Pro Tools 4x4 NuBus card, with all the samples coming from two or three SampleCell cards. Long before the era of plugins!

One track for lead vocals (compressed as an off-line process in Sound Designer II via L-1, which was the only "plugin" back then), two tracks for the reverse vocal effects (Boss RPS-10), and one track for the pitch-whammy / turntable scratch guitars (created off-line in HyperPrism - remember that?). A grand total of four audio tracks.

No hardware compressors. No hardware eq other than the Mackie channel eq. Alesis QuadraVerb, Ensoniq DP/4, Boss RPS-10, and Korg SDD-1000 on the Mackie's four effects sends. That's it.

An Arp Solus and Korg MS-20 for processing guitars and stuff, an Emax I for a couple of sounds, and I think I had a Novation Bass Station (the original one).

I gotta say, the Mackie rig was noisy but it was so easy for me to get the sound I wanted from it. I actually preferred mixing on that clunker to going downstairs and mixing on Trent's SSL 4k with all the outboard. Just simpler and quicker for me.

Nice @ Charlie !

From what I understand Alan has that 4K now in London, Trent's been through a few consoles since then and has a Duality these days

Yes it at Alan's mix studio in the Assault & Battery complex in nw London.

I think that 4k originally came from Larrabee North maybe? It had a few stereo channels down at the end of the left-most bucket, and those came in handy - although on a couple of the mixes for The Fragile there was a Mackie leaning against the SSL for "just a few more" channels!

That sounds like a bit of a project to commit to on faith, unless of course there's already a couple guys lined up and waiting. I'd agree the market for mini-consoles is roughly 100x larger than the market for 7' desks though. Having 16 or so default mic preamp/EQs combined with full monitor control is an expensive proposition outside of a used desk and frankly the majority of that market isn't changing between mix clients every few hours.

I never doubted it. It is just very interesting to hear your perspective on the topic and compare it to my own experience. Thank you for the insight and good luck with your new room!!!

My 2 cents:
I still love the tone/texture/dimension of a good desk used with high quality converters.
And you still need a central station, preamps, etc. anyway.

I've gone for 2 Tree Audio Roots consoles here + an early 90s German broadcast console + outboard for color etc. About 30 channels is all I need at mixdown, so no never-ending SSLs here.

Now, functionally speaking, you can do most of what you do on a console in the digital domain and more but there is something about analog stuff that makes me happy and keep me smiling (and moving, which can be an issue when you're sitting on your ass staring at a computer screen all day long).

Not enough inputs to be taking up that much room in my control room. That and it does not have enough auxes to send headphone mixes out from. It does have a summing box w/master section though. I picked up a Neve 66-12 channel(Great pres,eq's) with a Calrec master section, same amount of auxes and a couple stereo compressors for the same money. All transformer I/O. I have seen way too many API 2550 chips bite the dust in my day. Also this Neve board is just for mixdown and tracking. I use a Midas Venice f32 for a front end with Neve and other pres. Nice to track with but not to mix thru, has the auxes for monitors though. To each his own.

Dude, you need the exercise.

Besides, if the thing sounds good........

Lots to like here.

I use my desk for playback only. I never even wired up the preamps.

I like a console for the aux sends (for my effects in a mix, cue sends during tracking), the groups for parallel compression, and checking phase when getting sounds.

I like adjusting sounds on the fly, like inserting compressors or EQ's, sending to effects, and of course level.

If I was OTB, I think something along the lines of the Avocet would be a better option than the box for me.

I'm pretty much ITB atm and have 4 analogue inserts for printing but my avocet is a monitor controller only not a console.

That being said its awesome!

Heh. Maybe a contraption to tilt it forward (toward vertical orientation when you need to access the rear knobs) would sort out the lumbar problem and keep you rockin' !!

Not currently looking to buy since I got a DDA Q 32 CH but if it died on me and was beyound repair at first I would cry a lot, then I would hit the streets to sell my body to get a new one. Really don't like mixing ITB. And for me a desk is essential anyway since I only use tape for serious projects.
Bought it in 2014 and I'm most pleased with it.

I have one of those. Recapped, hot rodded. We're installing it into a 1700's mansion this month.

Is yours the Q2 or Q series?

Discriminating clients are not influenced by lights and whistles: an impressive list of satisfied artists with a wall full of successful recordings will do a hell of a lot more for you even if you are working out of a sparse, no frills facility. The quality of your work will trump the aesthetic frills needed by the recording wannabes. The streets of most cities of size are full of boarded up store fronts that were once big time recording studios. There are many reasons for their demise however the advance of high end in the box project recording options, many in home based operations, that offer high quality work with less hassle and expense is todays reality.
I now work from a Digigrid/Waves LV1 system that features two 24 inch touch screens controlling both tracking and monitoring all DAW activity with un-limited routing and FX at FP32/96K. Faders and knobs have joined cases of rack gear, dolby noise reduction and razor blading tape as a distant memory of obsolete recording gear.
Hugh