Whats the difference between these two in sound? All this talk about the 480 and I was wondering...

One is class A(480) the other class B IMO.

Well, I asked directly the manufacturer, according to them, most of the reverb algorithms are the same in both units (480L has however many other additional things - effects etc.).

They sound a lot different IMO. You really should try them both before making a decision.

Both great units though

dunno about the 91, but i had a PCM90 for awhile and was pretty disappointed... the nuverb card sounds better to me.. the converters are too thin. maybe they fixed it in the 91... i don't know. I ended up using the Nuverb and the revs in my DSP4000 more than the 91, which surprised me greatly.

the only cool thing i liked about the 90 was having a continuous LFO for stereo width.. you could go from mono to stereo to out of phase with an LFO.. very cool for fun cinematic effects... but you can get just as good of a reverb out of an LXP-15mkII... the only diff to my ears was that the 15 was mono. but so what? they're cheap. get 2.

I wish the Nuverb had the stereo width LFO... heh

I don't know Randy.


That word "great" gets tossed too much around here sometimes.


Personally I think one is great and the other is OK.

But as always... YMMV.

You're right. I should be a little more selective with the use of great.

One is great, one is ok

There you go that's more like it.

well.... I have extensive experience with the 480L, the 960L, the TC 6000.... and some experience with the PCM 91....

I think that generally the Lexicon reverbs sound grainy and chorusy in the tails... and in the 80's that might have been OK, but not nowadays, not for what I do.

I think the hi end TC (6000) hardware reverbs kick ass, and for cheap and unique and flexible.... I'd get Altiverb.

mixerguy - Have you used or listened to the TC Reverb 4000 at all?

Heya Jason

(Jason wrote) mixerguy - Have you used or listened to the TC Reverb 4000 at all?

I gave it a very quick demo.... it is supposed to sound just like the 6000, except in stereo only. I wasn't able to really properly compare it to a 6000.... I think for $2,500 new it is a pretty sweet reverb.... but if you are mixing ITB and have a G5, the new version 5 Altiverb gives you tons of flavors of various reverbs.... approx $400 - $500 for the RTAS plug- this gives you a lot of $ for other gear!

and the version 5 altiverb is very efficient on a new-ish dual G5

YMMV

best regards!

Yes, that's another big vote for Altiverb. I'm ordering it right now then. thumbsup

A real reply to the question would be to post the same sample processed with few identical presets from PCM 91/480 L. Then we could hear whether there is any reasonable difference or not ...
Otherwise all that is just a casual talk as the wind blows ...

I used a 91 and a 480 on back to back projects and thought there was a huge difference. The 480 still sounds very pro and adds class to anything. However, after borrowing a 91 for an album I was quite disappointed. Maybe I didn't have enought time with it, but vocals sound kind of boxy with it to me. Not much better than the MPX500. In any case with lots of projects on the go I like to keep it all in the box now and there are some good 480 samples for Altiverb.

I also have spoken with Lexicon and they said the 91 has alot of the algorithms of the 480.

I have a PCM91 and would love to take part in the test on my end. Also what would the converters have to do with the sound if you went digital through it. And it would be clocked with Big Ben now too!


Wonder how it will compare?

no!!!! get the rev 4000

A blind AB test could be quite revealing ...

I think there may be some myths around and as far as the basic reverbs are concerned they may sound quite similar (if not the same) on both units. And also - the manufacturer should be maybe among those who should really know ...

As for the convolution reverbs, I have almost all existing IRs and to my ears they sound OK - but only till the moment I process the same thing through Lexicon box. Any of them does not come even close to PCM 91 which always sounds much more natural and musical (without the thin metallic body). I think that even MPX-1 sounds better than any of the IRs. Unless there is some considerable improvement I would not invest anything towards SW convolution reverb ...
Do you think there is any sound difference between SIR, Pristine Space, Altiverb, Samplitude RS, Waves IR at all ?

And yes, for fun I tried to compare some PCM-91 IRs with the real thing - it was really funny ...

The only reverb I would not be ashamed to use in my music instead of Lexicon is R66. It still does not have the Lexicon depth etc., but to my ears sounds a way better than any other SW reverb, convolution or non-convolution.

I performed the same test. Suffice to say, the IR is no longer used in my mixes.

When I demoed the TC4000 i must say it was not a night and day difference with my Lexicon PCM80 for many presets, notably halls. Both great units, the TC is also great connectivity-wise (all formats, extensive digital routing, etc.). The EMT 140 preset on the TC, however, is absolutely wonderful. That alone could justify purchase of the 4000, I am not kidding. That said, I have ordered a Quantec Yardstick (long wait, though).
best regards
Massimo

Quantec Yardstick.. i see one of those in my future...

( Massimo said) That said, I have ordered a Quantec Yardstick (long wait, though).

Well.... there is a whole new line of improved Yardsticks coming out in the next few months....

all the news is here:

http://www.quantec.de/docs_d/effprocomp.pdf

thumbsup stike

The 480 is definetly the better unit. It's technically the flagship model for Lexicon before the 960 while the pcm90 was second string. The pcm90 is a step down but still has some nice settings. I wouldn't mind having one around. I used to use it as my filler verb. i would use on some of the less prominent parts of my mix just to give it some space. I would keep the return very low so you can barely hear it. The 480 would be much more present because it has more detail. If you bring up the pcm90 to much you start to hear that grainy digital sound. Its not the prettiest verb by far but can work really well behind the scenes.

Some people feel that the TC verbs are kinda cold sounding. Have they improved recently?

From where did you order your Yardstick? I corresponded with Quantec recently, and I would have to order direct, as there is no U.S. importer at this time.

I was told by the manufacturer that they couldn't figure out how to reproduce the algorhythm in the 480, and they've been trying ever since the guy who designed them (I believe) died. They also implied that much of it was done completely by trial and error and ear (and not through any kind of science or math) making things even more random and difficult to reproduce. That's what...15 years of trying? I don't think anything is ever going to replace the 480L.

Was that Dr. David Griesinger? I think that's the correct name.

You know not really.

Anyone who has used both can easily tell the difference.

The 480L is much larger sounding and warmer sounding.

The PCM91 sounds like a really great plug in.

Yes they have the same algo's but side by side you can hear where the extra processing and converters are different.

Are you thinking of the EMT 140 or the EMT 250?


I liked the EMT 250 preset on the M4000.

For a nice EMT 140 emulation, try the UAD-1 card with the EMT 140 plug in.

Blew me away!!! thumbsup

If you think vocals didn't sound good with a PCM91, but you're gonna use Altiverb now Let's put this on a scale let's say a 480 is an 8.5, PCM91 =7, Altiverb =3 IMO

The secret to making the 480L Altiverb impulses work is to use an outboard predelay.

I like PCM 42's for predelays for this purpose.

They tend to give the 480L impulses more character and warm up the sound a touch.