Hey guys,



I currently have a manley ref c with a 1073 spx and cl1b. But I'm starting to be annoyed with the top end of manley. It can be quite sharp with some singers, and I prefer a smoother top end. I was looking for a 251. I have my eyes on the Flea, Upton or Bock. The upton is only difficult to get in Holland. Which would you guys recommend?




Thanks!

251-style mics are considered bright so if you feel like the Manley Reference is too harsh maybe that's not the way to go.

Have you considered the Wunder CM7?

You would have to try one. If any of those clones match the way an original 251's capsule reproduces high frequencies then you won't mind if it's bright because it won't sound harsh or ugly.

How about a Soyuz 017 tube ? Smooth top end

Wel there is something in the highs with the Manley that I don't like anymore. I do like open airy vocals, but the Manley can be a bit harsh in upper frequencies! I'll check out your suggestions too, thanks!

Have you thought about a tube swap?

Hmm…
Other than Beesneez or Heiserman?

That’s an impossible question. And anyone here who—without being in the room while you’re tracking—recommends a specific mic to replace your Ref C simply can’t be trusted.


Personally, I’d recommend you try it against a Schoeps V4 U (with your eyes closed).

Ray H.

Try out an other capsule. Maybe if it’s fits old OG Neumann k67 from the seventies. 2hand

I think I'll be going for a Upton 251!

And in the near future a u47 style microphone. My eyes are on the Heiserman h47, Flea 47 and the Wunder Cm7s.

For a smoother 251/C12, I tend to prefer one that has a Haun capsule in it (they are usually a tad “darker”)..
Dunno if BSA still do they RS-2, but that would probably be my choice.

I’d throw in there also a Neumann U67 RI.. just to see what comes out..

Beesneez also have apparently a good one, according to Paul Godfrey (I never used one, but Ben is a great guy and does good mics).

Regarding the 47, I do like the Horch RM2J mk2 quite a bit… with a Tiersch capsule and a Haufe xformer.

I’ve hear good things about the Heisermann too..

If you can, I’d suggest you to travel and test some mics yourself, or better yet find a dealer that let return the mics you don’t find fitting for your sources, room and taste.. even if you lose a little bit of time/money, you’ll get exactly what you’re looking for, without any bias or BS you might read online.
You’ll also get a great personal experience out of this, which is priceless.

I hope this helps,

howdy

Cheu

Thank You Cheu for your reply. The thing is, is that I live in Holland. All these mics are quite rare here. So I'm delivered to the the fate of the forums and sound clips.

The mics will be for the singer who come here in the studio. Every mic will sound bad if I sing t through it .

The FLEA is a very exacting recreation with the original internal plastics, whereas the Upton has an arguable improvement of shifting to a high quality circuit board. They are both very good sounding mics with slightly different build philosophies. They both sound very similar to the actual vintage units, perhaps more so than other available products. At least compared to vintage I have used.

The Bock is very high quality as well. The Haun capsule doesn’t have quite the same top end and is a little mid forward around 2k. It is not dark sounding though at all. I think the idea of Bock’s voicing was to make it work a little better on male voices. Or maybe his “golden unit” was just like that.

My note on the Manley is to give some healthy distance, make sure the pop filter isn’t contributing to any sibilance (play with distance from the headgrille, beware metal pop filters), and give a healthy amount of headroom - don’t track too hot.

These are all very good mics including the Manley.

My take is, being a ref c owner since 2018, I hate it when the singers sing pretty far from it. When they sing close to it it won't record too much room sound and the final result is easily tweakable and easy to mix. The vocals always cut through a dense mix. I swapped the tube a while ago and it's like the mic came back to life.

The Reference Cardioid and modern Telefunken 251 have completely different high frequencies. It is entirely possible that you don't like the Manley upper frequencies, but may like those of the modern Telefunken 251. Can't speak for the clones. I'm talking about the real deal.

Can you book time in a studio that has an authentic 251? There has to be a studio somewhere in the Netherlands with a 251.

Short list should also include…
Beesneez and Heiserman.
Chris

One is made in Switzerland and the other one in Germany.. not so far away from the Netherlands

Thomann has the Horch RM2J mk2.. in case..

howdy

Cheu

I have the Manley now for 5 years and have a tube from Bowie in it, also 5 years. I do use a metal pop filter, but will change that asap.

Don’t get me wrong, the Manley has a special place in my heart. And thank to the Manley, I now have the ability to “level up” But taste change over years and I would like that a bit more vibe with the recordings.

I have lot of type of miks . Live nearby Hversum. We can arrange some shootouts if you like.