EDIT - this thread is devolving into hardware vs plugins - please answer my question regarding HARDWARE - my mixes are fine, but only Jesus is perfect so maybe they could get even better, or better faster.

Hello,

I make DnB, and the current state of production value is extremely high with huge loudness and lots of clean huge subs. I am wanting to get some analog depth and glue into my mixes. I have no outboard gear, but I have done a lot of research so far, and am hoping someone can help me focus my search.

Ideally people who have been through this or have used this gear can respond...

Considering used gear, I could possibly get:
Compressors:
SSL Bus+
Wes Audio NG Comp
Stam SA-4000mk3
Wes Audio Dione
TK Audio BC1-HD
Elysia Expressor Neo

Saturators:
SSL Fusion
2 Neve 542s
HG-2MS
Elysia Karacter

I considered the Alan Smart compressors but couldn't tell if I should get the C1 or C2 so I decided neither since analysis paralysis was taking over.

Sorry for such a big list but it seems they are all good pieces, so if anyone can chime in to help me focus my list, it would be much appreciated. I have lots of plugins for saturation and mixbus duties so I would want something that could take my mix beyond that depth, and help me get to the finish line faster and better.

What would you get from this for my genre of music and as a first piece of hardware? OR, what would you exclude, if that is an easier question to answer?

What do you feel is missing from your mixes currently?

I've owned both the Karacter and the 5042 (precursor to the 542 that fits in my console).

I wouldn't think of either of these units for massive modern low end. The 542/5042 tucks things in as tape would and it's very subtle. The Karacter can be subtle in that way but if you push it, it gets crunchy and nasty rather than huge and modern. If I'm trying to make something bigger in the analog domain with only one unit, I'm going to use a Rupert MBP and take advantage of its parallel and silk functions. (I realize this is out of your stated budget.)

Out of those I'd get the Bus +. Should be great on mixes and apparently, it comes with negative ratios that can be used for creative compression, etc...on drums buses...whatever else.

the title mentions “digititis/glue/beef” but imo if you want huge loudness with clean huge subs you’re better off staying in the box. otherwise you’re going to blow your budget on converters before you even get started.

that said, I think the xpressor neo is a great option from your list

I have to work more than I'd like to get big bass, and I know I like the depth analog brings after watching plenty of hardware vs plugin shootouts.

Thanks, I definitely like what I've heard from that thing and do have Acustica Snow. I will consider stretching for that or trying it on Access Analog.

Thanks, this is a concern of mine but I do have the Babyface Pro FS which supposedly rivals much much more expensive units so I'd probably be ok?

expressor is very good and versatile, I have the xpressor 500 series and absolutely love it, there is not one recording or mix where it isn't used, I stopped using plug-ins for compression since owning it.

I was thinking since it's fairly clean it might be a good option and not too expensive. The TK Audio unit is also supposed to be clean sounding.

For what you’re hoping to accomplish I’d try to save a bit more and get a Silver Bullet Mk2. With the Neve amp, the low shelf and the resonant high pass, you should be able to get nice low end, depth and texture. You also get all of the other goodies as well. I don’t think a compressor alone is going to turn the table. You could also look into a good multiband like the Drawmer 1973. But you can get great multiband ITB. I think an LTL SB MK2 will help you get there. You can also grow with it and get a comp later and run it through the SB inserts. Such a flexible box. And hard to copy/emulate ITB.

Stay in the box and get better with your tools.

You won’t find a miracle out of the box in 2023 and it will cost you a lot for nearly no effect.

Now if you have money and wanna have fun experimenting, take any machine you listed.

Get a nice tube compressor.

Retro
Manley
Api
Heritage
Fearn
Tubetech
Spl

I've been mixing 20 odd years, I find that hardware sounds miles better, you can't get the same sound with plug in's...if you could I'd sell the hardware and only use plug ins, even the best plug ins don't sound as good especially with compression in particular, now be honest have you really used hardware compressors, EQs? preamps? how much experience do you have?

Owned like 20+ types of preamps (tube, solid state, from aea chandler coil, ..), some eq(Avalon, kush, chandler), compressors (api, summit tla, ssl) , saturators (overstayer, neve 502) and reverbs (bricasti m7, tc 4000, space echo, …) and converters (solaris). Still own some for tracking, sold nearly everything.

Hardware sounds mostly good, and can be useful for tracking. But miles better than today’s plug-in is a lie, especially with new tools like a Massenburg drc2, not even speaking of limiters.

For todays needs and standards, hardware is fun but costly , slow and a pain to recall. If your clients got the budget and time, that’s okay. To each his own.

Pretty sure with one hardware machine and his budget, it will not change a lot for OP.

the op has never once mentioned working with clients or having to recall any mixes so I am presuming he is buying this for his own home studio, when you're in a commercial studio it's obviously different but I'd STILL use hardware over plug-ins even with the more difficult recall, because it sounds superior, I don't find re-call as difficult as other people with analog hardware, you can write down settings or take photos with notes on an iphone thesedays.

Depth comes from mixing techniques not gear. Perfectly possible to get depth itb.

I agree!

Me too. By which I’ve been mixing 20 years (with a decent amount of success!).

And I respectfully disagree perfectly possible to do itb; whether one wants to or not is another thing!

I think the concern is wanting to get a box as a magic fix, rather than just getting better at mixing. You’re not going to slap a mixbuss chain on and suddenly there’s that missing “depth”.

Which all comes back to the point. You got money, time, and wanna have fun ? Buy some hardware and enjoy discovering a new way of working and playing with knobs.

But don’t ask for miracles. Good tracks are good way before the mix, and no one cares when listening to a good song. Buying hardware is often a runaway from spending time writing and recording good songs. I’ve seen plenty of people with a lot of pricy hardware but polishing turds - if you can’t get a wonderful result today itb, the problem is either the awful mixing material or your abilities.

Last advice for OP : don’t buy anything before testing at access analog : you’ll quickly see which machine is ok and which one is useless in your own setup.

if you're considering silver bullets, maybe worth waiting a short while and see how the plugin emulation of it sounds when it comes out.. if it's your bag or not. then if it is, expect the hardware to sound slightly better-er..
Also try the silver bullet mk1 on access analog

Thanks, I should definitely look into that one, I haven't checked what's new in V2!

True it's just for me, although I am hoping with a few more label releases (I have a few) I could maybe start helping other people get to the finish line faster.
For that I could always stay in the box too.

I mean, I'm not so sure hardware compressors and saturators don't add some depth that is not there in plugin form... I have done a lot of listening and I almost always prefer the hardware in these tests.... Yes sometimes it is subtle but it is usually more than subtle to my ears.

I see you have a lot of good credits, so are you avoiding hardware because recall is a pain, or because you honestly think plugins are 100% as good? Interested specifically if you think plugins are 100% as good as hardware.

Not looking for a magic fix btw, I've been in the box since Cubase 3 or something, late 90's when it was hard to even find a soundcard and when computers where still very new for audio. Looking for a few extra percent.

Yeah just to clarify looking for a few extra percent, no miracles needed.
I don't want a lot of hardware, just a piece or two IF it does what I think it can do. Interesting to see the diverging opinions on here. I've seen many say that the hardware helps speed up the process (glue, depth, etc), and mixing ITB takes more work (minus recall issues) but I guess you disagree.

Before going any further: is your monitoring and your room up to snuff?

Sometimes the fix is not in the chain but where it's actually rendered into moving air. If your room can't handle low frequencies well you won't get anywhere. Nulls, masking and phase issues should be considered.

Maybe your money is better spend in better monitors and room treatment.

Secondly have you tried a good external mastering engineer for your tracks? Spending two hundred bucks for 2 or 3 songs properly mastered might be insightful. PM for suggestions for some engineers in your genre.

Try the Softube Chandler Germanium comp in your chain. They have a free trial. I love the low-end on this thing. Learning curve is quite steep though.

Your Babyface is fine, no need to change that.

If you really want to go out of the box be prepared to open a new can of worms. Fun, but not always easy and one get's sidetracked fast.

That said the Elysia Xpressor is great. I only know the old 500 version it's an amazing comp, tight, clean but very musical and great for electronic music.

Pair it with a Zähl EQ1 and you got a killer chain for almost exactly 2400.-...

I'd be cautious with tube-based gear. Tends to be to loose and not tight, but there are exceptions to the norm. Klark Teknik EQP-KT is cheap and fun. Not exactly tight but provides some color and a good low end hump.

In any case less is more. If hardware than buy few good pieces and learn them throughout.

Yeah the hardware sounds better to me like 97% of the time on these tests, it's a few percent but that's kinda where I am at, I would like that extra fairy dust.

Damn that's a whole new list to research! But yeah that does kind of make sense. Any personal favorites out of those?

Chandler Zener or IGS zen if you want color AND compression. Pair of 542 if you just want color and you derive your compression from individual tracks.

Treated room and Focal 3 ways with Sonarworks.

The labels I work with have their own mastering guys which annoys me but that's how it is right now.

Agree less is more!

Thanks for the suggestions Xpressor has gotten a few thumbs up on this thread.

Most tests are not done scientifically; there's bias, flaws in process, and all sorts of reasons why one way might be influencing another way.

I don't really see much point in trying to copy something either in or out of a box. Just make it sound good! Trying to match settings to prove one thing is better than the other is daft.

(UAudio did the opposite - tried to show their Unison was as good as better than hardware. On a youtube vid it did; but who knows what compromises they had to make in the settings of things to demonstrate that? Just to say I think the bias goes both ways!).

The whole "recall is a pain" thing is a tired argument. Please - I wouldn't compromise sonics for "ease of recall", I'd find a way to make recall bearable.

I had a mixbuss chain, plus a few select inserts. Sold it all about 5 years ago, when I realised I just wasn't using it anymore. Didn't feel any benefit.

I honestly think I can get where I need to get to with plugins. Are they "100% as good"...at what? Nothing sounds 100% like anything else....you get 5 different types of 1176 and put the controls in the same places, they won't sound "the same". No 2 original 251s sound "the same". That's missing the point.

Do I feel I "lack depth" by mixing 100% with plugins. I don't feel like I'm missing depth...do you hear a lack of depth?! Do you hear a lack of depth in the work of Serban, or Tchad Blake, or any of the other mixers who are completely ITB? I don't know about you, but I listen to something like Arctic Monkey's "RU Mine" and I hear depth and thickness for miles...almost TOO analogue...I'd have thought that the fact that many of the modern mixes everyone raves about having "depth" and coming from 100% digital perspectives is proof enough depth isn't gear releated.

Silk Sonic...everyone seems to think that's pretty deep!

That's good. I just shudder internally whenever I hear the line "I'm looking to "add depth"....you add depth by mixing it into your productions.

(computers make it much easier than analogue mixing to put everything front and forward, thus a perceived lack of depth..but that's user controllable really).

I'm not anti-hardware at all - there's valid reasons for using specific boxes, be that their uniqueness, personal preference, familiarity, or whatever. I just really resent the assumption that it's inherently "better". I track through hardware wherever possible, for workflow reasons as much as sonics. I'd never suggest that someone shouldn't do something...only that it's not the only way to do something.

*addendum - your thread title does say "$2400 for mixbuss digititus cure". There is no $2400 cure for digititus. It's fair to call you on that! The "cure" is to listen and mix to avoid it...that was my only point.

I have much of what’s on his original list thr wes audio ng bus compressor is killer. Also the overstayer modular channel another killer. Rupert Shelford channel also pretty good.