I am sure they are but it’s just physics, bass is returned and creates reinforcements and cancellations, axial standing waves add gain, which can cause overhang or boomy bass.

Right. So… living room with WAF and whatever, perhaps DSP will be an easier solution than treatment.

In a proper room, placement and trapping are supposed to take care of the terms you are throwing around. That’s control room 101, like… SUPER basic info.

Step one: have a monitor that produces a clear and accurate sound.

Step two: address that monitor’s interaction with your room, as both of them contribute to the “system”.

That’s just how pros approach “just physics”. Or at least, how we had to before DSP became cheaper and less inherently crappy. Even then, with some of the best stuff - e.g. Trinnov - you have latency to deal with, so it’s not a 100% perfect solution. I mean, my room treatment has zero latency and doesn’t need power, and it is effective for me in my room with my monitors.

Again, let’s keep this on topic, yeah? Speaker placement and room design is a whole nother ball of wax.

If you only correct in the minimal phase region it is a complete inversion , no delay, phase is unaffected, this isn’t true when you correct in the non minimal phase region ie higher up the FR.
50Hz wavelength is 27feet long you have to absorb quarter wavelength that is a lot of porous material.
Keith

Keith,

Studio 101. Your cut and paste is not contributing here.

Let’s keep it on topic.

I pray no one ever takes any speaker setup (or decision) advice from this thread. I’ve never seen so much misinformation.

There is a degree of insight which allows you enough information to get you into trouble but not enough to get out of trouble. Like someone who learns to use a soldering iron to fix cables or replace capacitors offering advice on gear design or board layout.
“Well when I looked at the pcb on the neve they did x so obviously the gml is designed wrong’
Gettouttaaherre

Acoustics and room design is just too complex for the average person to grasp without very specific intel or a lot of expensive and time consuming experimentation. I can completely understand someone getting it wrong because I got it wrong for such a long time.

There is a reason the acoustics experts are so vague to questions on the forums:
“How do I fix the bass in my room?”

“Design the room properly”


“How do I do that?”

“Two options:
1:Pay an expert
2: spend a tonne of money, time and about three or four builds figuring out what you did wrong and who’s info from the forums was good and bad, the choice is yours”

“That’s not helpful, I will figure it out myself. Soandso said I could use dsp and put my speakers a meter away from the wall with my subs in the corners”

“Enjoy… chat again after your third or fourth build”

Well said

+1

I also find DSP driven drivers and solutions to sound .... "electronic" .... just breaks the emotional connection for me with the music.

I spent $2500 on GIK designed room treatment - a pair of fabled ATC 25's.

Job done - perfect predictable translation and zero fatigue.

For me, I can ask no more of my studio monitors.

Results - results - results.

similar journey for me

Atc25 are so good, I feel like I'm in heaven producing on them everyday, and playing all my favorite video games. I love playing Apex Legends on them, I can hear movements a lot more.

Yeah not really, you can learn about it just like you can learn about any topic. The information is out there. And yeah, like anything, you'll probably start out knowing a little and continue to improve and eventually you'll know more. I'm not sure how that discourages someone from learning about it, since that's how learning literally anything typically works.

If I was starting over I'd tell someone to get free REW, get a cheap $100 measurement mic, and learn how to shoot your room and interpret the basic graphs - frequency response, time domain / waterfall etc.

You can gain a ton just from moving your speakers and seating position around doing this before you even get into treatment. Treatment doesn't have to be super complicated either, a bunch of absorption either GIK or DIY will 99% help you more than harm you, and they will give you free advice on what to get / where to put it too if you need.

Improving your monitoring and room acoustics doesn't have to be gatekept to pro studios, voodoo and 'acoustics illuminati'. Knowing and trusting what you are hearing is literally one of the most basic and important facets of producing audio.

AND before someone says it, yes I'm aware people make good mixes on ear buds, NS-10s, in their bathroom on their phone in the shitter etc. No you don't NEED to know or do anything, do you what you want idgaf, I'm just relaying what worked for me.

I'm trapping in my room very successfully down to the mid 20s and my bass traps aren't 7 feet deep.

Just relying on EQ doesn't work. You can try it, (as have many engineers) and you're still going to encounter problems. A friend of mine and very successful mix engineer bought some D&D 8Cs for his 'problematic' room thinking it'd help resolve the room problems (which it hasn't, even though the FR and phase plots look incredible in the listening position). He's now on a journey with getting his room right, at which stage he'll move over to SCM45s + SCS70.

Interesting and I agree

Can you post the REW plot, what are you using, I have RPG membrane traps here and they do work but I would need far more than I can accommodate eq works extremely well.
Keith

Okay, but how flat is it?

Yeah most rooms even with great speaker positioning and phase etc can be improved with Trinnov. It's only the 1 % of elite rooms where it wouldn't.
People who think they have a great acoustic and don't need a Trinnov will not let you take it off them after a demo.

Not 1% but exactly 0. Those do not exist.

I have no idea what that sentence means.

Before you invest in the ATC monitors, try out a pair of Ex Machina Quasars MkII. The Quasars have much better bass than the ATC’s you mentioned and are not ported. I almost purchased the SCM25A Pro, until I heard about the Quasars. I am not against the ATC brand, but if you’re looking for a midfield as well as nearfield monitor with phenomenal freq range and ultrastight bass, they’re the one.

Not a fair comparison considering the price. And sacrificing midrange to gain some extra bass is hardly worth it.

Its funny because I actually did try the Quasars and preferred the ATC's in the end.

Video games through ATC 25’s …. cool.

I love listening “Aja” by Steely Dan

I think we’re showing are different ages here

hehehe, you need ATC's in surround sound then!

Yes please, and when I turn pro at Apex, I'll require them to perform at competitions.

Sorry but the exmachinas are most artifical sounding speakers i ever had. I have had ganymede and pulsars. Do not recommend them at all.

So did you end up buying the 25’s?

Nah, he realized he couldn't afford it in the end so he got some KRK Rokits instead.

I did and loved them. Now I have the 45's and they are amazing.

Actually ended up with the 45's. Never heard of KRK before. Any good?

People shit on these all of the time, but a ton of hits have been produced on them.