Listening to Patsy Cline's voice send shivers down my spine. The vocal quallity is rather dark which I love but golly it's smooth and rich sounding.

DECCA, VERVE, RCA, SUN and other recordings that have this same quality are those by:

Ella Fitzgerald
Louis Armstrong
Billie Holiday
Judy Garland
Bing Crosby
Muddy Waters
Elvis Presley
Ritchie Valens
Santo & Johnny
The Ventures
Dave Brubek
Miles Davis
Frank Sinatra

I would like to be able to get these kind of tones that are extremely warm and instantly recognizable, sounding old to some but nostalgic and inviting to me. I'm looking for the best Microphone and preamp combination currently made to give me these classic sounds for instruments and voice. I would like to keep the cost down if possible.

Pick from these (my ideas so far) or make your own prefered sugestions:

Preamps

Germanium
Mercury
Chandler LTD-1


Mics

Coles 4038
AEA R84
Pearlman TM-1

Remember that I like the original dark sound of these recordings and do not wish to "improve" upon the sound quality with more hi-fi gear so make your recommendations based on purely obtaining the 1940's and 1950's character.

you are not looking for a cost down kind of thing, unfortuantely


i would say the aea r-44 - the classic looking ribbon they make or some soundelux
tube mic into
a dw fearn tube pre would get you part of the way.....the other
essential ingredient is tape......the air and the depth....
if you could find a well configured rca pre - everything recorded
in those studios had that great open sound
tubes and tape makes that sound.......
the timeframe you cover actually had a broad range
of sonic development

in my opinion more happened between 1940 and 1960
than any other twenty year period.....
from pretty scratchy to things that are sonically untouchable today
almost fifty years later......


find a nice engineer with a full range of mics and recording formats and spend
an afternoon really listening with your own ears.....

i love the sound i think that you are after.....

be well

- jack

I'd go for the AEA 84. Close as you're going to get to that sound without a ton of money/hunting for used. I love mine, and not just for old school vocal sound. Great drum mono overhead. Great for guitar cabs.

On the pre side of things, I'd probably go for a UA-610. Close design to a really old school tube amp. More along the lines of early 60's, but still a nice classic sound.

Maybe a TAB funkenwhatever mic pre from Mercenary. The V72 is a really old school mic pre... late 40s I think.

Of course... this is for NEW gear. Most everything has been modernized, so you're selection is quite small.

GOOD LUCK!!!

I think a ribbon mic paired with a Groove Tubes Viper mic pre would get you where you want to be..

Also an Empirical Labs Fatso is great at rounding off 'edgey' modern high frequencies and assisting a Bing Crosby sound / vintage 'warmth'..

The Hamptone tube mic pre @ $1000 a pair is the way to go. Same kinda thing as the would use back in the old days. AEA-44 is expensive. Used RCA-44 or 77 could be good, or just a good tube condencer. Lawson L47 w/ tube pre. Mixing to tape couldn't hurt either.

Those classic records were made without any solid state shit in the signal chain, and they were all analogue, either direct to tape, disk, or mag machine. It isn't really possible to get THAT sound with a DAW or even 2" 24 track mixed NEVE or API desk.

You can "fake it". PM me and I can describe it in better detail.

There is also the RCA tube pres which I believe Fearn is based upon. The UA 610 as mentioned above is an older tube design, same as Telefunken V72. I have the Tab Funkenwerk V-78, which is based off of the Telefunken V-72, but the V-78 does not really sound very *old* to me. The V-78 is definitely more hi fi sounding than the UA 2-610 I used to have (to me anyway) and the input impedence selector is very handy for tone shaping.

Jacklyn - The only thing I can suggest is to look for a "vintage" engineer that may have some of the original mics and pres from that era, along with an older tape format.

like other threads have mentioned, if you do go for the ua-610, experiment with
the tubes.....i think its the 12ax7's - i have changed them twice this year......
both times a very, very different sound - both times much better than the
stock tubes........

while the 610 is nice, it is a strong b- at best relative to a real vintage tube
pre, in my opinion....i think the fearn is the only tube pre that approaches
that sound.....i have heard great things about inward connections......


be well


- jack

I have a custom tube pre built by innerTUBE Audio. It sounds more like something from the 30's, like a Robert Johnson recording.

The input transformers are old UTC. There is no attenuator, just a -18dB pad. You can use a compressor after it for fine gain control if required.

This preamp is a lot less bright than most modern designs. It really adds some character to a track.

Jacklynn, you won't be able to get that sound with current gear ...can't be done. Everyone will chime in here with all sorts of ideas, but there's only one recipe for the sound you want ...old mic, old pre, and analog recorder. The equipment isn't hard to find either, (I've been using it for years) ...and it doesn't break or need weird maintenance, thats all myth. I don't care what people do, and how lousy they record things, but I care about great vintage sound, and it has to be done right to get the vibe and sound.

Ok, I just read some posts above and there's a couple good pieces mentioned ..RCA pre, ribbon mic ...those would be ideal. V72 is also kosher.

i agree with the guy with the french sounding name - especially regarding
maintenance.......the pro tools rig does more wack shit over the course of a month
than the studer has ever done......
listening last night to keven gray's 100% analog re-cut of nat cole's classic
"after midnight" - 1956 - fifty years old - nobody makes records that sound that good
right now........many, many manufacturers and over-extended consumers have much
invested in convincing you that there has been progress made in audio recording......
again....myth.....at least from a pure sonic standpoint, obviously its great to be able
to work with the kind of talent that needs to comp a vocal from 18 takes, and that's
a real modern convenience

if anyone recorded that record from 1956 sometime later tonight, people would
would freak out......



be well

- jack

Ampex 350/351?

AEA R84 into the Mercury M72 should sound very rich. They are recreations of the RCA77 and the Telefunken V72 both recreations above made in America.

If you think audio recording is bad, you should check out some of the reissue guitar tube amps on the market, many of which have nothing in common with the original PTP wiring and components found in the original tube amp circuits. Sadly, most consumers don't know the difference, anyway. Very few people are going to tell you that what they just threw thousands at, doesn't sound good, especially when it's a reissue.

way off topic here, but the best vinyl from the last two years i would say
is the best vinyl ever made, re-issue or not......





- jack

What do you mean by that?

I second (third?) the RCA 44. If you can find an absolutely mint one there is nothing like it. However it is most likely that you can't find a mint one so the AEA 44 would be a very good choice. The R84 is a great mic but there still is more to be gotten from a mint 44 IMHO.

Best,
Silas

I think the Mercury M72s is my of my favorite preamps I own.. It really does it for me on drum overheads, and vocals. Haven't tried it on guitars are bass yet. It's so special sounding, hard to describe with words. You just gotta hear it for yourself.

I get TOTAL 'yesteryear' vocal vibe out of the LTD-1 and an R84. Espcially (and flame on), if I put it through the EH Holy Grail reverb pedal.

Sweet!

77 is good too ...what alot of 'em actually used.

It has all polyprop power supply and coupling, silver mica supression but original Zenith paper in oils. And new old stock JAN CRC 6J7's And we can record
Winnie Wintrops Paris MkVI and people will cry with joy.
Nothing sounds like that. Well DW Fearn VT1 and AEA 44 is closeish.
Regards.•:*¨¨*:•. ¸¸.•´¯`•.Mark Fairfax-Harwood, Engineer Springvale Studios

Very little of what's made now. The UA preamps aren't too bad although they don't have the output capability of RCA and Western Electric preamps. An awful lot of those were recorded with an RCA 77. There are photographs of Patsy Cline being recorded with a Schoeps M 201.

Prior to the late 1960s performers had to REALLY know how to work a mike just to get a gig. This was because a PA amounted to a guitar amp with a mike plugged into it. There were no compressors or feedback suppressors. If you didn't know how to work a mike, nobody could hear you and nobody would consider recording you. By the same token compression was practically unheard of other than as a safety on the mix buss. Singers also worked farther back from the mike which made studio acoustics really important.

Blackbird Audio Rentals Nashville will sort you out for now. But then you have to find a good 44 and OP-6 of your own.
Regards.•:*¨¨*:•. ¸¸.•´¯`•.Mark Fairfax-Harwood, Engineer Springvale Studios
PS Then there is the BA-25 and there is no twelve point plan and its the slipery slope and the rents due and there is the Fairchild to re-tube/cap and before you know it your out on the street with the whole lot in a shopping trolly.
Don't go there don't even start. You will thank me for it.

Nice post!

The mic is the most critical part. I've used an AEA 44 into an API desk and gotten a wonderful vintage sound. My 84 into the Great River will do the same.

44, 77, 639B. Any of those will get you very close to where you want to be. Next to that, the AEAs (44BX or 84) are probably your best bet. The C&Ts and Royers are too hi-fi sounding, IMHO. Not generally, but for your application.

One other critical thing. Don't treat the mic like a condenser. Back up from it. Work from 6-12" minimum. I've had great results even 24" away. Those old ribbons have enormous amounts of proximity effect, flattening out usually about 36" away. So if your talent eats the mic (2-4") like a condenser, you'll end up with dark mush.

I just thought of something. Get a phuqued up RCA44 and send it to Wes Dooley (AEA) to fix up. That's got to be cheaper than a new AEA44. Next, get an AMPEX MX-10 or MX-35 mixer. They're the same thing with some cosmetic diferences. 4 mic /line in and 2 out.

I still think you need to record to tape to get that real vintage sound.

Tape decks: AMPEX 350/351 or Presto.

What kind of music are you recording anyway?

Search Amazon/ABE for this title. Buy, read, re-read. A nice read about a bunch of places that are gone or ....

Note that most studios were HUGE. Size does matter.

The "sound" of 1940's and 1950's was overwhelmingly transformer-coupled with vacuum tubes providing gain. Channels, tracks, and gain were dear. Good quality microphones were expensive (just like now!).

Even as late as the 1950's, studios frequently used disk cutters instead of tape. In the 1940's, scratching a groove into a disk was THE hi-fi way to record. German Radio, Western Electric, and BBC had some tape/ribbon/wire recorders, but these were too expensive for smaller studios.

Getting top talent to perform in front of what ever gear is available is quite a trick.

Most mixing happened in the AIR of the studio. There were not resources for close-mic'ing of an orchestra. Air is still the best mixer for sound.

You have opinion about liking older gear dark sound. Are you sure that the gear is working properly? Those models were pretty "hi-fi" when new. Not debating taste, just if what you like is what original designers intended?

Cheers.

Karl

I'd try an AEA or RCA 44 > GT Vipre.