Since I started making music, when it comes to Mixing & Mastering, there has always been discussed what kind of room treatment is optimal, the best audio interfaces, best converters, best studio monitors etc etc just in order to get the best possible translation for consumers

But why is not talent and skill ever mentioned?

Like, some people are born with a VERY VERY "good ear" which could be concidered a talent and to be honest i think that will make more impact than finding the perfect combination of studio gear and treatment

I have always had a very good ear for music, even as a kid and mixing came naturally to me. I have listened to mixes ive made on krk rokit 3s with 0 treatment and due to the mixing being so damn good and precise it translated perfectly everywhere, even 10 years later

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, i just used it as an example

It feels like there is so much focus on gear, but that must be a small part of it, because gear was so detrimental then you could get the same gear as the best of the best (which many do) and your tunes would translate just as good, but they dont

I have seen plenty of folks with expensive ATCs in fully treated proffesional rooms and their mixes still sounds trash

To be honest, i'd say that in terms of importance
1) Talent (People who are naturally gifted) (Will have a higher max skill-ceiling compared to the rest)
2) Skill (to train your ears - how far you can get by just training is very individual i guess, everyone has a different "max" ceiling)
3) gear

You're joking on the "why is talent never mentioned".

You're on a gearslut site. Gear. You already have talent or....you don't have talent.

You don't visit a car engine forum to learn how to drive a car. You go there to get info on engine parts. You already know how to drive a car..or don't.

At any rate, your mixes may well suck imo, despite you being personally pleased with them. Depends on what the producer is looking for...and face it....

....you get a producer who's looking for a mix that sounds like xyz....but your mixes sound nothing like xyz....and you don't have the capacity to whip up an xyz mix (perhaps a genre issue where you have zero experience) because your experience box isn't there....that producer WILL say, "no thanks, you're not right for that project" (ie, you suck )

Denotes no talent? Talent in a wrong genre?

What do you do?.....go to "gear" forums to learn how to mix and xyz step by step?

Don't think so.

Damn, did i hit a nerve? You mad cause you aint talented or what?

I don't think I was born with natural talent, and I would say it took me 10 years to get good at mixing.

No interest in rooms and only some in equipment, more into the sound I can hear.

Not sure things got any better or worse when I got ATC but I liked them.

Yes a lot of modern mixes suck massive balls but I assumed that was the fashion.

One reason I stopped mixing is I was not interested in the clients point of view as they were wrong.

I guess you haven't figured this out. Just like TV news is really in the business of selling ads to Big Pharma, and the NFL is really in the business of selling watery beer and Doritos, this site is really in the business of providing a client base so audio manufacturers can market their products. That client base includes you and me. And we provide the content.

The talent you're not blowing your own horn about has nothing to do with it.

Because rich boys can't buy Talent and Skill.

maybe you've been reading through all the wrong threads on GS?
talent and skill are always part of the discussion.
like "so and so could do a great mix/master in a bad room using only stock plugins".
I've read hundreds of variations of that statement over the years.

I like how we have managed to "hype" so many things over the years. Who needs a marketing dept. when we will do the work for you.

But...

Every now and then there be gold, if you pan hard enough. No way I would have discovered Line Audio mics or even the mighty DAV if not for here. These items would have been previously considered low budget and therefore beneath me.

As it goes both those companies are run by nice enthusiastic guys so we have done them a favour.

Its not perfect but at least its here and Jules deserves an income from decades of commitment and work.

Although any sane person ( I assume Bret is) would be cynical in the world currently.

Nothing sinister about it. But some people seem to think that enterprises like GS should be 100% egalitarian and survive on air.

I have heard some pretty great-sounding mixes made on some horrible equipment, by people who really knew the equipment and knew how to work around and knew how to listen. It's much more about skill than equipment, but it's hard to sell skill to a customer and easy to sell equipment.

I'll recommend the David Moulton ear training class as far as a good way to improve anyone's listening skills.
--scott

There’s plenty of discussion of talent and techniques and so on on this site - as well as how to use gear well.

Plenty of great engineers making great records on minimal gear and plenty of bad records made on top notch stuff. One of my fave songs I’ve ever done was recorded in a rehearsal room and mixed on a 002! But mostly..better gear, well understood in the hands of someone competent is an easier path to success.

But yeah - I’d say you’ve just not read enough posts yet. Stick around. You’ll find plenty of discussion about technique and attitude and ability.

I’d also 2nd the idea that “talent” is more developed than a birthright. Sure there are a few savants, but most people get good by doing.

The gear of today is awesome... Snr ect, everything you need for anything.. No limitation, but stuff from 30/40 years ago using crappy gear (by today's standards) still holds its own.

Listen to a lot of records... You'll have a better idea of where things should go. Tried and tested techniques.

And you forgot #4 , in my opinion the most important:
Experience!

I reckon it took me about 10 years plus as well.

I can remember my mentor saying to me one day after excitedly showing a mix. After being at it for a few years.

'You're not as good as you think you are'.

Back to the grind stone I went.

I like that. After 35 years of this (!) I really think I am winging it until I speak to anyone else and realise they know absolutely nothing and seem confused as to why they should.

Eventually its a leap of faith...

True mentorship is still the best avenue for learning I think. I agree it's about skill or expertise. Making records is a lot like cooking or painting. There's a huge amount of subjectivity involved, meshed with science.

The great Tony Maserati once said that a good mixing engineer can make something sound like a record by using a Mackie mixer in a bathroom.

Certain gear/processors simply get you to where you want to be quicker.

Then there is the case of wanting to push past that final 1%-better barrier that may or may not truly exist but only in the mind of the engineer. That's when you start going down the road of wanting the best of the best converters, speakers, cables etc.

And then there are those that simply find gear fun. Some people collect nice watches, others collect brass capsule 414s.

You win the discussion.

I'd further add that gear is much easier to describe, discuss and analyze in text than certain mixing skills are, so its much more likely the the discussion will go in the gear direction.

A person with a watch knows what time it is.
A person with two watches is never sure.


Unlike watches, mics work in stereo.
Or surround...


Chris

Yeah mentorship, that sadly died out.

If one is lucky enough to sit with people like Clearmountain, Parsons, Emerick, Kramer, Stent, Lipson, Horn, Lord-Alge, Massy, Scott etc. you will learn much.

I do think people overlook talent, we live in the age of I can do that because some guy told me on youtubes/intergoogles that it's possible, but the dunning kruger effect means that mediocrity rises fast in ALL industries not just music, and I no longer think music is an industry anymore, we're in a different age now with AI coming in, it's going to be rough the next few years and decades, unless you start using it to your advantage now.

agree, providing your mentor isn't some washed out jaded person, many 'teachers' can be unfortunately like this and I experienced this when younger, the negativity stayed with me a long time until I started fighting and challenging it, having one wrong piece of advice can de-rail our hope and optimism, particularly when we're already vulnerable or in a bad place at the time it is given.

Oh yeah I have come across many depressed, demotivational types who want to drag you down to their audio hell. Bad teachers are the worse people.

I have always tried to encourage and make people question whatever I say when teaching, as it makes me re-evaluate things I would take for granted.

"Why do yo do it like that?"

" Dunno always have I think"

"Are there other ways?"

"Yeah but I cant remember the last time I tried them"

"Show me..."

Useful.
Especially if you put your ego away.
Which is easier when you're old.

Take the guy who mixed a string of big hits, for years - talent, right?
But then, same guy, almost all of a sudden, can't buy a hit- no talent?

or someone says so-and-so makes great mixes- very talented, right?
then someone else says about, the same guy, his mixes suck- no talent?

talent is a slippery topic.
Equipment, etc. are merely tools to get a job done. The intended audience, whoever that might be, decides if one has "talent" or not.

Oh, count me as another vote for hearing the OP mixes (and I promise not to comment on them).

No. Some of the most talented people I know are mixing for film soundtracks or jingles or some other market where they will never be appreciated for how good a job they do. They just churn stuff out, and it's good, and they get a check at the end of the week.

And a lot of big hits are thrown together by people who happen to have figured out a gimmick... and they can do that gimmick pretty well but they can't do anything else. I suppose that's a sort of talent, but not one I have much respect for.
--scott

To be honest i'm happy, the bar is so low today that people with talent actually have a much easier time to separate himself from the herd and be seen. Today someone with talent will look like a genius lol

I have some insightful comments on this matter.

my point exactly.

Microphones, yes...but not brass capsule 414s, unless mismatched stereo is acceptable. I wonder how many actual good quality, functional matched pairs of brass cap 414s still exist.

That’s a fun quote but clearly not the case…they might do a better job than someone untrained but it’s still going to be approximate and guesswork!

The 2nd part - after a certain point yes. But there’s also a minimum requirement.