im just wondering how common it is in general as a mixing tool for producers, if it's in the same realm as eq and compression for example. is it normal to create a great mix without using any stereo imaging?

I let panning and delay/reverb (and chorus like the one on my Juno-1 JX-3P) create the stereo image. I use no "widening" effects. I can't stand super-wide mixes.

Yes it is and people had been doing it for decades before stereo imaging effects.

^ +1

chorus, delay, reverb, panning ,also a creative panning (moving) do a lot to stereo width. But extremely important is a good mix with everything having its space...it makes immediatelly everything wider.

Also a bit of mid/side EQ ,like a tiny boost of 1db on hats, can do wonders. In the end all those small details sum to something people call a wide mix

Nugen Stereo Pack , especially Stereoizer gets used very often here....sometimes even on master if the source is mono or very narrow....

Highly recommended,

Best,

Gregor

These days?
For a good chunk of mixers, it's pretty much up there. Projects get bigger and bigger, so spatiality obviously becomes something you should have a philosophy regarding.

There's two camps. The LCR guys and the ones who use imaging and M/S processing on buses. The former will only pan center or to either side, whereas the latter will control every level and plane of the mix.

Try both! M/S processing is in a great place now, so try it out. I personally do it all. During production, I'm 100% LCR, then any place is fair game when I mix and I enhance that by processing the master bus with a few M/S tools.

It also depends on how dense and layered your mix is. When working with sparse projects, my big trick is to go all LCR and then pan all the reverb/delay/crunch buses in-between with a heavy dose of asymmetrical imaging.

Keep in mind that what sounds like a beautiful stereo mix in your home studio might not work in clubs. It's not uncommon that they use mono systems and only punch of people will be dancing in the "sweet spot".

Absolutely true.....but some stereo imagers are extremely mono compatible....

Problems may occur if your low end is not mono....and looses power when summed to mono on a club PA or cancels itself out acoustically on some spots if subs are stereo....

I use them a lot these days, before I was wary of them for mono compatibility reasons but as Gregor Z pointed out the new ones don't have that problem. Download the free BX Solo and never look back!

Once again its all in the arrangement.

How to make a mix wider? Only do it every now and then. Have it narrow, then make it jump out wide when you need to.

No widening effect necessary.


More practically speaking, if you create stereo effects using things like reverb, chorus or short delays, the best way to get them wide is to leave them unmasked. In other words, keep most of your mix mono and centrally panned, and the effect itself will stand out more discernably. Assign the job to only one instrument which will exhibit it well. Auditory masking works in terms of amplitude and frequency, but in my experience it's also possible to mask the effect of a stereo image. So I guess it still comes back to arrangement.

I have some synths which only have mono out. I some times do a fake stereo spread.

1. I record the original sound on one track and pan it e.g. left.
2. I modify the original sound e.g. change cut-off or resonance a bit. Or change LFO rate, modulation amount on e.g. PWM, pitch. I then record it and pand it right.

From what I've seen/heard from a few others and from my experience it all depends on what your vibe is. I don't think a LCR mix would be rejected by anyone because it's not wide enough. I've seen guys use wideners on whole mixes (not my thing) or have outboard ones always inserted on the mixbus..also the Izotope stuff is getting used on a lot people's 2mixes these days and although I've only demoed it a few years back, pretty sure that does some sort of widening if I remember right. I've felt pretty good about using a widener on one element of a mix like a background vocal stem, etc..But I think the biggest thing about me trying to get a more dense mix wide is to get the low stuff in the center and get plenty of the hi-freq stuff on the sides. I've felt alot of insecurities comparing my stuff to other finished mixes, but never thought "gee, wish my mix was more wide". I think building the arrangement with stereo placement in mind is an added bonus that helps, as well and there are surely plenty of guys out there that do amazing work that way with no spacializers.

USUAL crufty disclaimer: i am not pro so i don't know what is common

i reckon paying attention to the stereo field itb is essential, it allows for sound to be heard w/out crushing it w/eq & compression (imo); i made a stereo fx in max for live that emulates my old console and when working on itb productions i find it makes a difference: it splits stereo in into two stereo channels that can be panned individually, then routes all four outputs to two stereo busses, that can also be panned individually. then made some presets for common "wide', "narrow", "left to center" "center to right" etc.

attached is a sample for the curious; the goal wasn't to make a given sound wide (bx is very good plugin for that ), but to split the tracks so they could be heard.

BX Solo is very powerful[especially for a freebie]I got it when I bought the DSM V2[just before,like an hour,hours before they dropped the price a HUNDRED Dollars USD-more once converted to AUD+"international transaction fee" of $4 for every $60]

My thing is it can change the whole tonality of a mix[BX Solo],and especially a master,How do YOU use it,and what should I avoid?

It goes incredibly wide at the max[of 4/5 settings]at 400%,and I'm not experienced enough,to know if what I'm doing is beneficial,or horribly detrimental,especially to the end result? [as a mixer,let alone using the word "engineer"]
Thanks
RK

I do that too Best technique for majority of situations while producing..

....but with some sounds you don't have other option then using a stereo widener...as everything was recorded mono before and there is no possibility of recall....I may process with analog hardware twice and change the settings a bit...sometimes it works great...sometimes is a phase issue...

BX Solo is just a M/S balancer so you can't make a stereo sound from mono source...where Nugen Stereoizer shines....and you can program it in a way so it sounds completely natural...

Interesting,I still find the 150% and up settings[set to stereo,not ms]very intense.especially compared to waves S.I. Shuffler,which doesn't change the tonality much,when used as just a "widener".

Me I mix everything in mono at first, much easier to hear if the mix is too dense. Then use pan delays after, makes any stereo information very prominent and compatible with mono.

Using mono means thinning out with eq or arrangement then before messing with phase or placement. Too dense / confusing mixes stick out immediately collapsed in mono.

That or its just my style.

1) Pan things HARD. Make sure that each side is different (Not just duped/tweaked patches), yet pleasingly balanced to the ear (or not!). High hat on one side, shaker on the other.

2) Use M/S where applicable to push things out further still. You can mute Mids and sides to great effect and clean up your mix.

3) Use mostly mono sources and save stereo for some 'special' channels.

Too many electronic mixes these days are a big, hard, dead lump down the center and then to give the *impression* of width, there's often some kind of widening effects on pads, etc or HAAS effects on percussion, or duplicating & altering patches and hard panning them. But, even basic panning seems to be a lost art, or things are so subtle that there's often little point. I love LCR and panning with balls.

Waves Center.

I just became a huge fan of wide smixes after hearing orjan new tunes... I use m/s on my synth buss along with steinberg stereo to mono to make sure everything will translate.

i also prefer delay, reverb and panning to achieve wide mixes. i do use stereo wideners sparingly on certain elements in the mix but i keep it rather subtle. I also have a hardware EQ with M/S operation so I use that to widen a bit too on the master bus (it has M/S level control) - BUT that's WAYYYY different than using a widening plugin.

I just mentioned it cause its a freebie, I use it on (a few) selected sounds in the mix, pads, perc, etc. Used it on bass a few times too, usually the subtler settings, 150-200%. I find it helps to get the result fast as its such a simple plug in.

I also have BX Stereomaker for mono sounds when needed. I'd never really use Solo on the master though... but for example it can be nice on busses, esp automated say during a break down.

Yes it can change the tonality quite a lot, but since I make house and techno, I tend to put it on very early in the game, during the sound design and jamming phase, so its not such a problem for me.

.

Cheers,Thanks

On stereo bus, just widening the HMF w/ Izotope Ozone's "stereo imaging" feature can really open a mix up in a useful way. I 1st tried this after mixing engineer Jaycen Joshua mentioned it in an interview & I've used it on quite a few mixes since then. If not in mixing then definitely a little bit in mastering. This obviously does the enhancing on the most useful area IMO. There's even a MIX control= so why not try a pinch to open up the whole mix? Sometimes I'll use a little on the HF too but not so much. Rarely does it sound good on the LF & LMF tho. I mean, why enhance where the mud is?? Right? Being the obsessive person that I am of course I always try it anyway...just in case!

Of course widening on some individual stems to one's taste like u mentioned gives u way more control. But...sometimes a generous/broad stroke or 2 on the stereo bus can be just the thing to give the song a uniqueness & more personality.

Does anyone else here always use Ozone on stereo bus to some degree?

Hey everyone,

I've been using Nugen Stereoizer and bx_stereomaker and comparing the two. I'm making mixes kind of similar to Kygo where the sound is very wide.

The bx_stereomaker has a feature that shows you when you're going "out of phase." If you start trying to spread the stereo too much, it will show you the correlation meter goes red and then your signal is negative/out of phase.

However, Nugen Stereoizer does not have this. How do we know if the signal Nugen is producing is out of phase?

Do we have to be careful with Nugen, or else we may be making our tracks out of phase? Or did Nugen perhaps add a failsafe where it prevents the output from being out of phase?

Just wondering about this and I don't really know anyone else using these plugins!